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Red Sox/MLB 2012 Thread Part XX-Time for Rebuilding

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Old
12-04-2012, 07:41 PM
  #901
Avs_19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe
Sources: #RedSox are open to idea of trading Ellsbury, playing Victorino in CF and signing C. Ross or another RF. Keeping doors open.
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Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN
Rival officials believe that the Red Sox are laying the groundwork for a trade of Jacoby Ellsbury, for the pitching they need.
That would be the smart move. Trade him now and get something of value. Hopefully that something ends up being a young starter.

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12-04-2012, 07:51 PM
  #902
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We also have interest in Eric Chavez to be a left handed hitting 1B option. He could also play over at 3rd if Middlebrooks has any sophomore issues

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12-04-2012, 07:57 PM
  #903
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It is clear why we keep picking up these guys who rake lefties though:

Price, Moore, Britton, Sabathia, Romero....makes sense when considering our division

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12-04-2012, 07:57 PM
  #904
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We also have interest in Eric Chavez to be a left handed hitting 1B option. He could also play over at 3rd if Middlebrooks has any sophomore issues
So is every position besides 2B next year going to be a platoon at this rate?

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12-04-2012, 08:02 PM
  #905
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On ESPN=Boston, Edes has a video about the Victorino signing at the middle of it he mentions back at the end of the season he asked somone in the FO if they would trade Ellsbury for the last 3 years of Lee's contract and they would do that. Boston would have to add some to it cause Ells only is 1 yr away from FA. Those weren't the exact words but close enough.

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12-04-2012, 08:22 PM
  #906
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
On ESPN=Boston, Edes has a video about the Victorino signing at the middle of it he mentions back at the end of the season he asked somone in the FO if they would trade Ellsbury for the last 3 years of Lee's contract and they would do that. Boston would have to add some to it cause Ells only is 1 yr away from FA. Those weren't the exact words but close enough.
Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes

You can put the rumors of Ellsbury-for-Cliff Lee to rest. "Not a prayer," source said.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:24 PM
  #907
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Originally Posted by 24giovanni View Post
On ESPN=Boston, Edes has a video about the Victorino signing at the middle of it he mentions back at the end of the season he asked somone in the FO if they would trade Ellsbury for the last 3 years of Lee's contract and they would do that. Boston would have to add some to it cause Ells only is 1 yr away from FA. Those weren't the exact words but close enough.
Trading for a 34 year old Lee who has $75M left on his contract wouldn't be a smart move.

Edes says it's not happening:

Quote:
You can put the rumors of Ellsbury-for-Cliff Lee to rest. "Not a prayer," source said.

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Old
12-04-2012, 08:29 PM
  #908
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In on Ryan Dempster

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Old
12-04-2012, 09:16 PM
  #909
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Wouldnt hold my breath on anything at this point.


Hate to see Ells go, but if we have to start somewhere. I'd rather reap the benefits of him playing in a contract year then trade him.

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12-04-2012, 09:26 PM
  #910
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We also have interest in Eric Chavez to be a left handed hitting 1B option. He could also play over at 3rd if Middlebrooks has any sophomore issues
I like chavez. Championship caliber backup/bat off the bench if that makes sense at all

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12-04-2012, 09:35 PM
  #911
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Rays are about to acquire Yunel Escobar from the Marlins for Derek Dietrich. Apparently the Sox had some interest in him at the beginning of the day.

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12-04-2012, 10:19 PM
  #912
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Pete Abraham
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Sources: #RedSox remain interested in Cody Ross and other RFs. No doors have closed there. Asking for time to seek Ellsbury trade

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Old
12-04-2012, 10:33 PM
  #913
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Player A:
28 years old
.242/.317/.436/.753 the past three seasons
Averages 23 HR, 74 RBI, and 36 SB the past three seasons
Considered a good defensive outfielder who is usually among the league leaders at his position in putouts.


Player B:
31 years old
.281/.334/.415/.749 the past three seasons
Averages 9 HR, 60 RBI, and 33 Stolen Bases the past three seasons.
Considered a good defensive outfielder who is usually among the league leaders at his position in putouts.

Player C
32 years old
.264/.334/.432/.766 the past three seasons.
Averaged 15 HR, 62 RBI, and 31 Stolen bases the past three seasons.
Considered one of the premier defensive outfielders in baseball, and has won multiple Gold Gloves in his career, including one two years ago and three in the past five years.
Has been selected to two All-Star games in the past four seasons.


Player A is BJ Upton, who just got 5-years, and $75 million from Atlanta.

Player B is Angel Pagan, who just got 4-years, and $40 million from San Francisco.

Player C is Shane Victorino, who I'd argue is the best of the three.

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12-04-2012, 11:59 PM
  #914
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His defense is not that good.

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Old
12-05-2012, 02:20 AM
  #915
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Doesn't he have 3 gold gloves?

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Old
12-05-2012, 04:03 AM
  #916
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
Wouldnt hold my breath on anything at this point.


Hate to see Ells go, but if we have to start somewhere. I'd rather reap the benefits of him playing in a contract year then trade him.
Why? This team probably isn't going to contend realistically this year. No sense of keeping him around. Trade him for something and move on.

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12-05-2012, 05:16 AM
  #917
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Why? This team probably isn't going to contend realistically this year. No sense of keeping him around. Trade him for something and move on.
You can get something significant for him if he puts up big numbers. Which I totally expect him to because its contract year and Boras is good at what he does. Right now, he has value, but not that much to get something big for the team. Hold onto him at least for a few months and then decide. We arent in a rush to trade him really.


I totally expect this team to contend...for the wild card at least. I think we will be in a good position this season. That's just me though. I don't see us finishing last here. We have a whole new staff. I think its going to be a very different Sox team next year. Which is why, if they dont plan on resigning Ellsbury. You get what you can out of him during the season so you can up his trade value.

But we shall see what they plan on doing.

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12-05-2012, 06:35 AM
  #918
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Why? This team probably isn't going to contend realistically this year. No sense of keeping him around. Trade him for something and move on.
Yep and his value is at his peak, now. If you package him with someone else (Salty?), you might to be able to get decent pitching help. Trading Ellsbury at the deadline make no sense at all. You trade him or keep him. It's simple as that.

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:39 AM
  #919
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
You can get something significant for him if he puts up big numbers. Which I totally expect him to because its contract year and Boras is good at what he does. Right now, he has value, but not that much to get something big for the team. Hold onto him at least for a few months and then decide. We arent in a rush to trade him really.


I totally expect this team to contend...for the wild card at least. I think we will be in a good position this season. That's just me though. I don't see us finishing last here. We have a whole new staff. I think its going to be a very different Sox team next year. Which is why, if they dont plan on resigning Ellsbury. You get what you can out of him during the season so you can up his trade value.

But we shall see what they plan on doing.
What makes you think that Ellsbury is going to put up numbers anywhere close to 2011 aside fro a contract year. What we have here is a player who in 4 of his 5 seasons has struggled to stay healthy and hits around .300 with 7-10 HR. 2011 is not what Ellsbury is, not even close.

The thing is, if you hold onto him you'll have a OF hole in July or at the end of the year. JBJ isn't ready now, nor will he be at the end of the season. Who do you sign to fill the hole that's worth signing NEXT year.

I don't want Ross, and I don't want Victorino, but we're already stuck with one. If they trade Ellsbury now for pitching help/prospects (IE Phillies) you can live with Cody Ross for 2 years on a 3 year deal and trade him or Victorino with 1 year left on those deals to make room for JBJ, or just keep both and plug one of them into LF once Gomes deal is up.

There is literally no reason to keep Ellsbury until July unless they plan on re-signing him, which they shouldn't.

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:07 AM
  #920
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Signing Victorino was a terrible move as a thing in itself. I understand the rationale behind getting a guy who can play all three OF positions but he is shot and has a chance at being Mike Cameron redux at worst and a declining 3/4 ofer at best. I suppose trading the overrated Ellsbury for someone decent will soften the blow but terrible signing by Cherrington.
I don't love the signing, but there's a big difference between signing Cameron who was 37 when the 2010 season started, and Victorino who just turned 32.

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12-05-2012, 07:28 AM
  #921
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I kinda like the Victorino signing (and not just because of my user name); and would like it more if it means we trade Ellsbury for a pitcher (maybe Lannan+) and bring back Ross to play right field. Podsednik, Nava, Kalish, and Sweeney can battle for the last few spots.

We're not fielding an all star team on paper anymore; but to paraphrase, 'we're not looking for the best players, we're looking for the right players' It was time for a new design, look for guys that contribute to a strong clubhouse and move on from the old regime.

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12-05-2012, 07:47 AM
  #922
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Doesn't he have 3 gold gloves?
And Jeter has 5.

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12-05-2012, 07:48 AM
  #923
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I like chavez. Championship caliber backup/bat off the bench if that makes sense at all
Great. Just what a last place team needs. A broken down 35 yr old player to get then into 4th place in the AL East. Get real.

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12-05-2012, 07:58 AM
  #924
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Great. Just what a last place team needs. A broken down 35 yr old player to get then into 4th place in the AL East. Get real.
This exactly why I don't get the positive reactions from some here over these signings. They're still going to suck, just not as bad as they would had they bitten the bullet and just went with a youth movement. By adding Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, and whomever else they sign, they're still going to be a crap team, but slightly better than last place. So by adding these guys, they're only hurting their positioning for the draft because it's not like these moves will actually make them a playoff caliber team or compete for a wildcard. Most objective fans can see that, so who exactly do the Sox FO think they're fooling with this nonsense?

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12-05-2012, 08:12 AM
  #925
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This exactly why I don't get the positive reactions from some here over these signings. They're still going to suck, just not as bad as they would had they bitten the bullet and just went with a youth movement. By adding Napoli, Gomes, Victorino, and whomever else they sign, they're still going to be a crap team, but slightly better than last place. So by adding these guys, they're only hurting their positioning for the draft because it's not like these moves will actually make them a playoff caliber team or compete for a wildcard. Most objective fans can see that, so who exactly do the Sox FO think they're fooling with this nonsense?
Ugh LSCII, I just don't see your logic here. What budding young star is being held back by these signings? Bogaerts isn't ready yet and the second he is, he'll play. Same with JBJ. Same with Barnes. So what member of our youth movement do you want to hand a spot?

And if you're thinking Kalish and Gomez, please. Kalish might end up a 4th outfielder, and Gomez had enough time to prove his "value". And again, if you think for a second a team with the league's highest price tickets is going to field a handful of mediocre-ceiling rookies (and or rush a few potential stars) to save a ton of money, especially after the last two years, you're crazy. It's never going to happen.

Just be thankful these deals are 3 years max and spots will be open for the precious youth when the time comes. Oh, and let's not forget to get excited about our new crappy outfeilder with the double ear flaps and the declining skill level.

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