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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal.

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12-04-2012, 07:58 PM
  #901
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
What?

Our #1 Center is Jason Spezza. His skating was knocked heavily for a long, long time.

We should have picked Couturier, and we didn't. Hopefully Zibanejad will be as good, or better, but I doubt he will be.

Couturier has already had success in the NHL. He will improve as he matures. He'll be a #1C right around the time that Spezza is on the decline.

It was a bad decision.

Zibanejad won't even be the best player we got in that round.


Couts will never come close to Spezza or Turris for that matter. When Spezza goes it's Turris' 1C to run with - and he has the talent to run with it. We will never replace our phenom in Spezza though sadly unless we get a top 2 pick.

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12-04-2012, 08:05 PM
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Couts will never come close to Spezza or Turris for that matter. When Spezza goes it's Turris' 1C to run with - and he has the talent to run with it. We will never replace our phenom in Spezza though sadly unless we get a top 2 pick.
Couturier just put up a 27 point season, on the 4th line, while being the best defensive forward on a playoff team, at the tender age of 19, yet he will never come close to Turris? Come on people, we never took Couturier, stop making it seem like he's not talented to justify that decision.

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12-04-2012, 08:10 PM
  #903
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Couturier just put up a 27 point season, on the 4th line, while being the best defensive forward on a playoff team, at the tender age of 19, yet he will never come close to Turris? Come on people, we never took Couturier, stop making it seem like he's not talented to justify that decision.
This is true. Then again Turris has the potential to be a gem that Couturier may not be able to catch up to once both peak. With that being said, there is NO reason Couturier can not be "better" than Turris.

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12-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #904
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
meh this probably happens all the time. It's only getting any attention here(Canada) because there is a lock out.

It's pretty obvious if an NHL club doesn't see the tourney putting dollars in their pocket long term their is no incentive to let him go. On the flip side Sweden is not the people footing the bill for the nutritionists, gyms and trainers in NA that are helping Mika develop and hone his skills blah blah.

Sweden wants a good player for their team this year, Ottawa wants a good player for their team for the next 20 years.

EDIT: **** couturier.

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12-04-2012, 08:29 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
What?

Our #1 Center is Jason Spezza. His skating was knocked heavily for a long, long time.

We should have picked Couturier, and we didn't. Hopefully Zibanejad will be as good, or better, but I doubt he will be.

Couturier has already had success in the NHL. He will improve as he matures. He'll be a #1C right around the time that Spezza is on the decline.

It was a bad decision.

Zibanejad won't even be the best player we got in that round.


lol those comments are so ridiculous, it's incredible to me that some people can't understand why. This is based on what? The ONLY year AFTER they were drafted? Are you new to following the NHL? Haven't you see the snow before? Don't you know that you can't draw conclusions so fast on players and that they all have different learning and development curves? What happens in year 1 doesn't mean much, only what happened that year... Couturier's game was more pro ready but who knows how far he can take it? And who knows how much potential can Zibanejad reach?

Man I hope you're not as old as I think you are, because you are preparing yourself such a huge plate of crow to eat... you won't have enough time to eat it all for your remainning days

People, don't listen to that guy, waste of time

But please continue, it always entertain me to read random hockey fans second guessing real professionals


Quote:
Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Couturier just put up a 27 point season, on the 4th line, while being the best defensive forward on a playoff team, at the tender age of 19, yet he will never come close to Turris? Come on people, we never took Couturier, stop making it seem like he's not talented to justify that decision.
He didn't get all his points on the 4th line, that's not the only line he played on

He had the 10th most ice-time per game among Flyers forwards

That being said, I was much more impressed with Matt Read personally. Couturier is and will be a quality player, but not a game changer IMO, just a solid reliable hockey player. And that's why many teams passed him IMO, they didn't see a "boom potential". I didn't see that in him and won't ever be mad at the Sens passing him... Still happy with Zbad until he proves me wrong


Last edited by Xspyrit: 12-04-2012 at 08:45 PM.
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12-04-2012, 08:48 PM
  #906
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Jesus. Couturier was falling big time during the draft. A lot of Sens fans wanted him at the time, and now it seems as if he is living up to his initial hype whilst Zibanejad is a middling offensive talent in the AHL.

Why is it so hard for some fans to accept we made the wrong call?

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12-04-2012, 08:49 PM
  #907
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Real professionals like the ones that drafted Brian Lee over Marc Staal and Anze Kopitar?

That sort of "real professional"

Real professionals like Bryan Murray that mismanaged a contender into a laughing stock, had a coach carousel running for almost his entire tenure, and took the high hard one in virtually every trade he has made pre "rebuild"



Yeah. The real professionals know what time it is.

And Couturier is 4 years younger than Turris, and has already outscored him, though Turris outpaced him last year, as he should have.

Couts is also a #1C in the making, Turris will probably top out as a #2C.

Comparing them is ridiculous, and in 5 years time you'll see just how ridiculous.

I'm getting ready for my big plate of crow. Surely Zibanejad is going to do in the future what he has never done in the past, at any level. He is going to turn in to a guy that can put up points, because that's what the "real professionals" think.



I love this board.

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12-04-2012, 08:51 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by source View Post
Jesus. Couturier was falling big time during the draft. A lot of Sens fans wanted him at the time, and now it seems as if he is living up to his initial hype whilst Zibanejad is a middling offensive talent in the AHL.

Why is it so hard for some fans to accept we made the wrong call?
because we all knew zibanejad needed development time whilst Couturier was scouted as more NHL ready and would be able to contribute almost right away...

thats probably why plus a lot of us are level headed and temper our expectations.

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12-04-2012, 08:54 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Real professionals like the ones that drafted Brian Lee over Marc Staal and Anze Kopitar?

That sort of "real professional"

Real professionals like Bryan Murray that mismanaged a contender into a laughing stock, had a coach carousel running for almost his entire tenure, and took the high hard one in virtually every trade he has made pre "rebuild"



Yeah. The real professionals know what time it is.

And Couturier is 4 years younger than Turris, and has already outscored him, though Turris outpaced him last year, as he should have.

Couts is also a #1C in the making, Turris will probably top out as a #2C.

Comparing them is ridiculous, and in 5 years time you'll see just how ridiculous.

I'm getting ready for my big plate of crow. Surely Zibanejad is going to do in the future what he has never done in the past, at any level. He is going to turn in to a guy that can put up points, because that's what the "real professionals" think.



I love this board.
the point he's making is that it's too early to call. as of now it looks that way, and it's absolutely correct and acceptable for you to say that couts is better now, and to say that couts will be better in the future. the second part is opinion though, and it seems you're trying to pass it off as fact. that's the problem
as for your murray bashing: i'm sure someone has tried to convince you that he's done a good job in the past and failed. you seem very set in your ways, so i'm not going to bother trying to sway your opinion there, but murray has done a good job with what he inherited.

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12-04-2012, 08:55 PM
  #910
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
because we all knew zibanejad needed development time whilst Couturier was scouted as more NHL ready and would be able to contribute almost right away...

thats probably why plus a lot of us are level headed and temper our expectations.
I never heard that line until about a year ago. In fact, at the draft I think the feeling was that Couturier's game wouldn't translate to the NHL and that he was just another one of those guys who'd put up big numbers in the Q but fail at the pro level.

Don't you remember about a year ago when all the hype-sters (Xspyrit and co.) were pencilling him (Zibanejad) onto the 3rd line at a minimum, saying he already had NHL-level defensive abilities? It's funny how the justifications change to suit the facts.


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12-04-2012, 09:02 PM
  #911
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It is amusing that we talk about hockey sense and make comparisons here and there about different players and different draft years. We even compare Zibanejad to Fisher. Fisher was my favourite player for a long time... good at crashing and banging, good shot with the odd offensive outburst, but Fisher is no where near Zibanejad with regards to on ice vision, or even decision making. Zibanejad has a lot of hockey sense, he just needs to learn the game at a faster pace, which he could have done last season.

What happened last season was the wrong decision. Zibanejad would have done better here, on the third line than on that **** storm of a team he played for in Sweden. We could have even let the kid go play in the WJC. He wanted to stay and there was a little bit of room for him to play. Everyone here was on the send him home train and now they are rubbing his face in the crap that they buried him in. Those who wanted Zibanejad to stay here last season were correct. PERIOD, FULL STOP.

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12-04-2012, 09:04 PM
  #912
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Zibanejad could have easily played last season on the 4th line in a defensive role.... would have been a solid 3rd liner.

I'm disliking the Zibanejad pick more and more not because he's has been average in the AHL but because we didn't go BPA aka Hamilton.

I still would take Zibanejad over Couturier. Zibanejad was the best forward available.

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12-04-2012, 09:05 PM
  #913
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Originally Posted by source View Post
I never heard that line until about a year ago. In fact, at the draft I think the feeling was that Couturier's game wouldn't translate to the NHL and that he was just another one of those guys who'd put up big numbers in the Q but fail at the pro level.

Don't you remember about a year ago when all the hype-sters (Xspyrit and co.) were pencilling him onto the 3rd line at a minimum, saying he already had NHL-level defensive abilities?

yeah maybe hfers but I'm talking listening to actual scouts. When Ottawa was picking 6th overall the local sport radio interviewed a lot of scouts talking about Huberdeau and Couturier, and Strome.

Basically the majority of scouts said Couterier had the ability to hang in the NHL at what level is not quite sure, they biggest knock was his inconsistent effort of play from night to night in junior. it was less about his skill and more about his character. he was ranked 4th overall which actually takes into account how likely the player will end up being an NHLer as well as skill. only RNH Landeskog and Larsson were ranked higher than him.

were as zinbanejad was scouted as a 17 year old getting games in the sel with real raw undeveloped talent. How much development was unknown, as were finding out now, but he was a strong physical center. we went for it. were still developing.

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12-04-2012, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
yeah maybe hfers but I'm talking listening to actual scouts. When Ottawa was picking 6th overall the local sport radio interviewed a lot of scouts talking about Huberdeau and Couturier, and Strome.

Basically the majority of scouts said Couterier had the ability to hang in the NHL at what level is not quite sure, they biggest knock was his inconsistent effort of play from night to night in junior. it was less about his skill and more about his character. he was ranked 4th overall which actually takes into account how likely the player will end up being an NHLer as well as skill. only RNH Landeskog and Larsson were ranked higher than him.

were as zinbanejad was scouted as a 17 year old getting games in the sel with real raw undeveloped talent. How much development was unknown, as were finding out now, but he was a strong physical center. we went for it. were still developing.
Zibanejad was a big time riser, and we reached down to pick him. Same thing happened with Brian Lee.

We'll see what happens, but methinks Murray screwed up with the Zibanejad and Puempel picks that year.

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12-04-2012, 09:13 PM
  #915
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...We'll see what happens, but methinks Murray screwed up with the... Puempel picks that year.
off topic, but what's wrong with puempel?

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12-04-2012, 09:17 PM
  #916
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Originally Posted by source View Post
Zibanejad was a big time riser, and we reached down to pick him. Same thing happened with Brian Lee.

We'll see what happens, but methinks Murray screwed up with the Zibanejad and Puempel picks that year.
Zibanejad was a riser from his U18(?) tourney he was scouted their and very dominant in it. he has some g0od things he just needs to work on them.

as for the peumpel pick i was really hoping we were going to take Saad myself was kinda disappointed at the time. to his credit he has 21 goals in 26 games this year. something we need on this team.

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12-04-2012, 09:18 PM
  #917
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Originally Posted by ATdaisuki View Post
the point he's making is that it's too early to call. as of now it looks that way, and it's absolutely correct and acceptable for you to say that couts is better now, and to say that couts will be better in the future. the second part is opinion though, and it seems you're trying to pass it off as fact. that's the problem
as for your murray bashing: i'm sure someone has tried to convince you that he's done a good job in the past and failed. you seem very set in your ways, so i'm not going to bother trying to sway your opinion there, but murray has done a good job with what he inherited.
No he has not. Since the rebuild / firesale, he has done a good job. Before that, he got railed in pretty much every move he made, but I am not going to rehash all that.

Looking at two players here, Couturier and Zibanejad. Couts is clearly ahead of Zbad now. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Couturier will in all likelyhood improve as he matures.

I don't see how anyone can genuinely say that Zibanejad is ultimately going to be the better player, since there is zero evidence to support that. Believing that will happen is opinion. Believing that Zibanejad will learn how to score goals and be awesome is opinion.

With Couturier, there are results, and there is history. It stands to reason that not only will he continue to do what he has already shown that he can do, but that he will improve as he matures.

So yes, it is my opinion that Couturier will be the better player, based on history. It is your opinion that Zibanejad will be the better player because...???


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12-04-2012, 09:18 PM
  #918
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off topic, but what's wrong with puempel?
He's a very poor man's Minnesota Wild-edition Heatley. He's been eclipsed by a number of guys taken below him, and hasn't shown very much improvement.

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12-04-2012, 09:23 PM
  #919
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Zibanejad was a big time riser, and we reached down to pick him. Same thing happened with Brian Lee.

We'll see what happens, but methinks Murray screwed up with the Zibanejad and Puempel picks that year.
Screwed up with Zibanejad and Puempel? So the hate on for Puempel returns.

I have no idea how someone can say that picking puempel was a mistake if you watch him play much - he has the knack - he's had an unfortunate development but lets be real he has more potential upside than almost all the picks after him. Plus he's a great character - every time he is spoken about people glow with praise about what a quality person he is - and what commitment he has to hockey. We were LUCKY to get puempel where we did because if he didn't get injured he would of been gone long before. And this is coming from a person (me) who wished we took rattie - but that doesn't change that puempel is a talent - and one who scores nhl goals.

As for Zibanejad - I think most people feel the BPA was Hamilton - then I would go Zibanejad, Couturier etc... It's just laughable to be comparing a guy who is a year older - and that everyone knew was NHL ready - to a guy with a ton of raw potential who was a project down the road. Why don't we compare Zibanejad a year from now to Couts now - then it will be a fair comparison - and yes birthdates matter.

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12-04-2012, 09:29 PM
  #920
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He's a very poor man's Minnesota Wild-edition Heatley. He's been eclipsed by a number of guys taken below him, and hasn't shown very much improvement.
Not sure if serious...

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12-04-2012, 09:29 PM
  #921
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No he has not. Since the rebuild / firesale, he has done a good job. Before that, he got railed in pretty much every move he made, but I am not going to rehash all that.

Looking at two players here, Couturier and Zibanejad. Couts is clearly ahead of Zbad now. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. Couturier will in all likelyhood improve as he matures.

I don't see how anyone can genuinely say that Zibanejad is ultimately going to be the better player, since there is zero evidence to support that. Believing that will happen is opinion. Believing that Zibanejad will learn how to score goals and be awesome is opinion.

With Couturier, there are results, and there is history. It stands to reason that not only will he continue to do what he has already shown that he can do.

So yes, it is my opinion that Couturier will be the better player, based on history. It is your opinion that Zibanejad will be the better player because...???
i'll quickly address the murray comment then be done with it
yes, he could have done a better job. yes, he made questionable moves. ultimately, he could have done a better job to keep the team going at that time. on that front, he was mediocre. through that period though, his team was doing a solid job at the draft table. the one ice product could have been better, though that would have taken a great gm. he was a solid gm, so while drafting was a focus, the one ice product suffered. that was a little more than quick, lol.

i'm not saying zibby will be better. it is too early for me to make a definite decision there. what i'm saying is it's cool, and even reasonable for you to say that couts is a better player now (he is a better player now). it's even cool to say that couts will be better in the future. it's not okay to take your opinion that is based on variables that are unpredictable and say an alternative is impossible.


Last edited by ATdaisuki: 12-04-2012 at 09:30 PM. Reason: repeated something
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12-04-2012, 09:36 PM
  #922
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Couturier just put up a 27 point season, on the 4th line, while being the best defensive forward on a playoff team, at the tender age of 19, yet he will never come close to Turris? Come on people, we never took Couturier, stop making it seem like he's not talented to justify that decision.
Yes Couturier had a nice season on a very talented team. Turris put up similar stats to him when he was couturier's age playing for Phoenix only one year removed from Junior A hockey. Couturier is going to be developed the right way whereas Turris was not so I wouldn't be shocked if Couturier reaches where Turris is now at a young age - but that being said I think 10/10 that Turris is a better player than Couts, will be a better player than Couts, and that Turris has more talent by far - in my view it's not even close.

That being said I have my biases - i've always thought Turris had the potential to be a star in the NHL whereas I never thought that Couts had the talent to be an offensive star.

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12-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #923
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i'm not saying zibby will be better. it is too early for me to make a definite decision there. what i'm saying is it's cool, and even reasonable for you to say that couts is a better player now (he is a better player now). it's even cool to say that couts will be better in the future. it's not okay to take your opinion that is based on variables that are unpredictable and say an alternative is impossible.
unless is favors Zibanejad...

I have already said I like Zibanejad multiple times in this thread. I am also aware that we can't undraft him and draft Couturier, and we all have to live with the decision that the team made on that day.

I just don't know where all the optimism and hype is coming from, because while I can agree that Zibanejad has tons of raw skill and natural ability, what he doesn't have is "hands" or the ability to bury the puck that some guys (like Stone) just have.

You can't teach hands.

People talk about "tempering expectations" and then project this guy to be a 60 point powerforward in the next breath.

How many players had even 40 points last season?

I also never said that it was impossible for Zibanejad to be the better player in the end. Though the people that confidently rap off those rhymes aren't ever called out around here.

Interesting.


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12-04-2012, 09:46 PM
  #924
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We likely should have taken Couturier. But this isn't ground breaking...

Lots of woulda shoulda coulda's in draft history. The guy had a bad draft year.

He also had mono. You know what happened to me when I had mono? I didn't know I had it. I played ****ing baseball, and all of a sudden I couldn't stand up without feeling like I'd fall. My spleen was ruptured. I don't know how long I had mono, I never felt tired, I didn't go to the doctor one day and they confirmed I didn't have it anymore. With mono, you don't really know...the scouts knew he had mono? Did they know for certain it was affecting his play? If he had mono, he shouldn't have been playing.

When he went to the WJC and played okay, he probably wasn't being affected by mono. Nor when he came back, nor when he got outplayed in the playoffs by JGP.

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12-04-2012, 09:59 PM
  #925
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He scores as much as players that are much more skilled than he is. When your as smart as he is, you have more time with the puck, you get more chances to make things happen with it, and often in better places on the ice.

This is the point I was trying to make. His best asset is his hockey sense and if it was merely average or on par with most other plays, there's a decent chance he'd be a 2nd line center in the league as some thought he might be when he was drafted.
You still need high-end skill to execute the moves he pulls off. My point is I don't think the assessment of second line skill is anywhere near accurate. His best asset is his hockey sense no doubt, but his 2nd and 3rd are his speed and skill which are also at elite levels.

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