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Lockout Thread: I told myself I wouldn't do this| Part IV

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Old
12-04-2012, 01:57 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Those kind of things are all covered in the CBA. Even if it is mentioned in the contract itself, are those conditions tied to the CBA or are they referenced independently?

Saying that 'this contract is a guaranteed contract, medical insurance covered at x%, etc.) and saying 'this contract is a guaranteed contract, medical insurance covereted at x%, conditions subject to current CBA in place', that possibly creates a different scenario in the courts. Like I said, I've never seen an actual NHL contract or read the fine print? Have you? Otherwise, you're guess is as good as mine so there would be no point in you trying to push the idea forward. I'm not suggested that the contract themselves aren't protected without the CBA in place, I'm simply being open to the possiblity that without a CBA, the contracts may not be treated exactly the same.
If there is no union there is only the contract.

So absolutely, without a CBA the owners and players would both be obligated to the contract without protection of a CBA.

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12-04-2012, 02:23 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
If there is no union there is only the contract.

So absolutely, without a CBA the owners and players would both be obligated to the contract without protection of a CBA.
That's the possibility that I'm trying to share with uiCK. I can't say that for certain but it seems like the most likely scenario that that it's the contract itself (dollar figures) that would be upheld and not all the other miscellaneous benefits that are generally outlined in the CBA. It just seems like common sense protection by the owners to ensure that the contracts that are given out have the conditions linked to the CBA.

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12-04-2012, 03:00 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
That's the possibility that I'm trying to share with uiCK. I can't say that for certain but it seems like the most likely scenario that that it's the contract itself (dollar figures) that would be upheld and not all the other miscellaneous benefits that are generally outlined in the CBA. It just seems like common sense protection by the owners to ensure that the contracts that are given out have the conditions linked to the CBA.
Players would be responsible for those health benefits, pension plans, et cetera, just like contractors in other LOB's.

I'm guessing the contracts would be guaranteed unless there is an option to break the contract however, there may be a stated buy-out in the contract itself.

It would be interesting to see a standard players contract though.

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12-04-2012, 03:08 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Players would be responsible for those health benefits, pension plans, et cetera, just like contractors in other LOB's.

I'm guessing the contracts would be guaranteed unless there is an option to break the contract however, there may be a stated buy-out in the contract itself.

It would be interesting to see a standard players contract though.
You can get an idea here.

http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu...text=sportslaw

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12-04-2012, 03:32 PM
  #480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
That's the possibility that I'm trying to share with uiCK. I can't say that for certain but it seems like the most likely scenario that that it's the contract itself (dollar figures) that would be upheld and not all the other miscellaneous benefits that are generally outlined in the CBA. It just seems like common sense protection by the owners to ensure that the contracts that are given out have the conditions linked to the CBA.
if the miscellaneous benefits are written in the contract, the benefits must be upheld. Basically, the contract is what is, and you can't just "cut" salary if your the owner when you deem necessary, because there is no CBA. Talking about contracts done as of the day that there is no cba, no union. prior contracts seem to be voided once the CBA is expired, so those don't count.


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12-04-2012, 03:35 PM
  #481
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Economist: Players paying for NHL's mistakes

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SPORTS ECONOMIST: NHL OVER-EXPANDED INTO BAD MARKETS

The Boston Globe details how NHL revenues have grown by 50 percent over the past five years, to $3.4 billion, but 13 of its 30 franchises suffered losses last season, according to Forbes magazine estimates. The Bruins, one of the “Original Six” teams, have historically turned a profit and made about $14.2 million during the 2011-2012 season.

Analysts say the NHL’s economic woes stem largely from its failure to practice smart growth. Nine of the clubs in the red are among the 13 that moved or were added between 1991 and 2000, when the league grew from 21 to 30 teams. But the new teams were established in cities such as Anaheim, Phoenix, Dallas, and Nashville, where hockey isn’t a natural fit, and has failed to take root.

“The NHL made a mistake in overexpanding to bad markets, and now it’s trying to make the players pay for that mistake,” said Raymond D. Sauer, president of the North American Association of Sports Economists and chair of the economics department at Clemson University. “It’s that simple.”

Full Story: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...27s%20mistakes

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12-04-2012, 07:35 PM
  #482
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Things getting interesting folks.

Words like "optimism" and "progress" actually being used in relation to the lockout.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1301435

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12-04-2012, 09:48 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
if the miscellaneous benefits are written in the contract, the benefits must be upheld. Basically, the contract is what is, and you can't just "cut" salary if your the owner when you deem necessary, because there is no CBA. Talking about contracts done as of the day that there is no cba, no union. prior contracts seem to be voided once the CBA is expired, so those don't count.
I understand that, I never opposed that possibility. You on the other hand is arguing vehemently about this idea that contracts are being upheld as is with or without a CBA and you've never seen an NHL contract before. How do you know? I'm certainly not the one claiming to know what the real situation is- I only offered an alternate possibility to how contracts are structured. It doesn't matter if miscellaneous benefits are written into the contract if those benefits stated in the contract have an asterisk next to it that refers it back to the CBA. That can make a huge difference and unless a contract is hundreds of pages (which is about how in depth a CBA is in regards to medical, safety, travel, lodging, mortgages, etc that is outlined), then it's possible that those things are stated in a contract tied to the CBA. If you cant accept that possibility, then there's really no where else for this discussion to go because it'll just be going in circles.

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12-04-2012, 09:56 PM
  #484
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So, Larry T getting it done for us or what? Sounds like a good meeting.. like I said, the man knows how to get deals done that make sense despite overwhelming attempts at logic defying screw ups.

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12-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #485
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So, Larry T getting it done for us or what? Sounds like a good meeting.. like I said, the man knows how to get deals done that make sense despite overwhelming attempts at logic defying screw ups.
I was hearing some good things about he PEns owner Burkle(?) being a good negotiator/comprimiser too.

THey say there's been progress, so fingers crossed.

Betman to Speak tomorrow at 1pm.

Isn't there a BoG meeting tomorrow.

KNow more after Hockey Central. Hopefullly.

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12-04-2012, 10:18 PM
  #486
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12-04-2012, 10:36 PM
  #487
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So, Larry T getting it done for us or what? Sounds like a good meeting.. like I said, the man knows how to get deals done that make sense despite overwhelming attempts at logic defying screw ups.
Tanenbaum and Burkle. Two guys considered master negotiators are the two guys being credited with the progress made today...coincidence? Probably not.

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12-04-2012, 10:46 PM
  #488
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Tanenbaum and Burkle. Two guys considered master negotiators are the two guys being credited with the progress made today...coincidence? Probably not.
Them and Crosby.

If this happens in the near future Crosby can add "Saviour of Hockey (Really!)" to his business card.

On a side note I really hope it happens soon partly because I want to hear Tim and Sid eat crow about the Burton report from last night. They were ripping him hard today on the FAN.

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12-04-2012, 10:52 PM
  #489
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Them and Crosby.

If this happens in the near future Crosby can add "Saviour of Hockey (Really!)" to his business card.

On a side note I really hope it happens soon partly because I want to hear Tim and Sid eat crow about the Burton report from last night. They were ripping him hard today on the FAN.
At least they're still funny when they are admitting they're wrong. Although I can't remember both being wrong at hte same time.

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12-04-2012, 11:05 PM
  #490
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Ok so Bettmans calling a conference, IMO this means one of two things a) a deal has been reached and hockey starts soon or b) talks broke off and the season is cancelled.

Based on the good reports from the meeting, I'm going to go with the first option.

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12-04-2012, 11:07 PM
  #491
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talks went well, so you call the media? come on now

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12-04-2012, 11:09 PM
  #492
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@DarrenDreger: Steve Fehr says it was a constructive day in some ways best day they've had. Daly says appreciate efforts of the players. Will meet tomorrow

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12-04-2012, 11:27 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
talks went well, so you call the media? come on now


only thing that makes sense is that deal is imminent

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12-04-2012, 11:29 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Ok so Bettmans calling a conference, IMO this means one of two things a) a deal has been reached and hockey starts soon or b) talks broke off and the season is cancelled.

Based on the good reports from the meeting, I'm going to go with the first option.


that is my guess too, because progress is made, and y would you call media for progress, im guessing deal at the most late, is reached by friday, or earliest is wednesday

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12-04-2012, 11:30 PM
  #495
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PLEASE! I want hockey

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12-04-2012, 11:32 PM
  #496
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Everytime I hear something optimistic like this I get my hopes too high only to see them shot down again. Staying cautiously optimistic for now.

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12-05-2012, 12:00 AM
  #497
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Ok so Bettmans calling a conference, IMO this means one of two things a) a deal has been reached and hockey starts soon or b) talks broke off and the season is cancelled.

Based on the good reports from the meeting, I'm going to go with the first option.
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talks went well, so you call the media? come on now
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
only thing that makes sense is that deal is imminent
Nothing more then a regularly scheduled presser regarding the owners meeting, don't read anything into it, don't get excited about it.

Get excited that Daly and S. Fehr held a joint presser and wouldn't take questions, get excited that nothing has leaked, that they meet again tomorrow, that Daly says "both sides want a deal done", but don't get excited about the Bettman presser tomorrow.

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12-05-2012, 12:00 AM
  #498
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Ok so Bettmans calling a conference, IMO this means one of two things a) a deal has been reached and hockey starts soon or b) talks broke off and the season is cancelled.

Based on the good reports from the meeting, I'm going to go with the first option.
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Originally Posted by mikebel111 View Post
that is my guess too, because progress is made, and y would you call media for progress, im guessing deal at the most late, is reached by friday, or earliest is wednesday
Apparently this presser is the regularly scheduled BoG presser. Already planned before this meeting was thought of.

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12-05-2012, 12:04 AM
  #499
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The thing I took from today is we don't need Fehr or Bettman. Players and owners is all we need to get through these lockouts. No need for the individual big shots.

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12-05-2012, 01:37 AM
  #500
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Went down to my folks place to get my X-mas tree and deco's this past weekend (they very kindly spare us the expense of a storage facility), Dad was the only one there. He had one first question for me, "What do you think, will there be hockey?" We're talking a man pushing 70 here, not hooked into twitter, or HF, etc., obviously, wants to know what I'm hearing.

Told him, "Dad, I got no reason to see anything positive, I don't, but I cannot believe that both sides would be so mutually stupid as to lose another season. They can't. I think we'll play hockey at the end of the day."

I've never minded being wrong but man, I want to be right. I wanna be reading my Twitter feed, see Bobby Mac break "It's done", and make that phone call.

Don't let me down here #NHL #NHLPA

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