HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > Football
Football NFL, NCAA, CFL

San Francisco QB debate

View Poll Results: Who should be the starting QB for San Francisco?
Alex Smith 36 40.91%
Colin Kaepernick 52 59.09%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-03-2012, 05:05 AM
  #51
Graveland
HONE YOUR CRAFT
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: United States
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 50
Need to take the reins off the offense if Kaep is going to stay the starter.

Graveland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 06:07 AM
  #52
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajicz View Post
Based on what? At least there was nothing good in that last game...

He played great against Bears, then decently against Saints (defense won that game). And that's it. Doesn't look that consistent either...
QB rating.

Smith was mediocre to terrible against the Vikings, Jets, Giants, and Seahawks. 2 TDs and 5 INTs in those 4 games.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 08:13 AM
  #53
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 29,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
QB rating.

Smith was mediocre to terrible against the Vikings, Jets, Giants, and Seahawks. 2 TDs and 5 INTs in those 4 games.
And that's called cherry-picking.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 09:24 AM
  #54
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
And that's called cherry-picking.
The 4 teams Smith had good games against are a combined 21-27. The only good team in those 4 was Green Bay.

The 4 teams Smith were mediocre to terrible against are a combined 25-22. Vikings, Giants, and Seahawks are all potential playoff opponents.

There is already about a 50% that Smith struggles and that increases since he tends to struggle against better opponents, which becomes a problem in the playoffs since he won't have the Cardinals to beat up on.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 11:01 AM
  #55
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Clowe Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 14,969
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt Macklin View Post
Need to take the reins off the offense if Kaep is going to stay the starter.
Pretty much. When he got to drop back and make throws yesterday he looked great. When they tried to outsmart the Rams instead of going with what worked, the team failed. Crabtree and Manningham were abusing Jenkins and Finnegan all day and they stopped throwing for no good reason.

Clowe Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 01:04 PM
  #56
peate
Registered User
 
peate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,234
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDanceOfMaternity View Post
As a niners fan I want to see Smith back.

Kaepernick might be about as good, but the reality is Alex was a big part of the resurgence of the 49ers last year, and after all these years waiting for him to play well and finding a competent coaching staff for the first time since Mariucci, it feels very unclassy of the 49ers to throw him under the bus because he gets a concussion and the rookie has 2 good games.
Pretty much sums up my feelings also. Harbaugh mismanaged this I believe. This is like a mini version of the Montana vs Young debate of the past. Not comparing the quarterbacks in any way, but the situation is similar. I'd go back to Smith for the remainder unless he really stinks it up and decide on the starter during the off season.

peate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 01:13 PM
  #57
Hammettf2b
Registered User
 
Hammettf2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: So California
Country: United States
Posts: 770
vCash: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by peate View Post
Pretty much sums up my feelings also. Harbaugh mismanaged this I believe. This is like a mini version of the Montana vs Young debate of the past. Not comparing the quarterbacks in any way, but the situation is similar. I'd go back to Smith for the remainder unless he really stinks it up and decide on the starter during the off season.
as a niners fan myself, i would have to disagree. The great season we had last year was mostly because of the defense. yes smith did play well enough to get us that far by not turning the ball over and "managing" (i know ppl are tired of that word but its true) the game, but i feel Kap gives us a better chance to have a more potent offense.

Hammettf2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 02:31 PM
  #58
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Snippin' Yank
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 49,227
vCash: 597
Kaepernick starts vs MIA.

Marc the Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 03:00 PM
  #59
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Jim needs to stick with KAP.

we had a lot of bad play calling that game... the ball needed to be in the air more often

TML g u n n e R s* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 03:12 PM
  #60
Gene Parmesan
Ball-So-Hard-U
 
Gene Parmesan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 25,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammettf2b View Post
as a niners fan myself, i would have to disagree. The great season we had last year was mostly because of the defense. yes smith did play well enough to get us that far by not turning the ball over and "managing" (i know ppl are tired of that word but its true) the game, but i feel Kap gives us a better chance to have a more potent offense.
********. Harbaugh and Roman are preventing the offense from becoming potent. This offense has all the tools...they need to let them loose.

Gene Parmesan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 03:21 PM
  #61
TML g u n n e R s*
EDC 2013
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Air Canada Center
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,011
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Yahoo to TML g u n n e R s* Send a message via Skype™ to TML g u n n e R s*
Vernon needs to be in the playbook much more often... spread the football more and we will win the superbowl! NINEEEERSSS

TML g u n n e R s* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 03:26 PM
  #62
Hammettf2b
Registered User
 
Hammettf2b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: So California
Country: United States
Posts: 770
vCash: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
********. Harbaugh and Roman are preventing the offense from becoming potent. This offense has all the tools...they need to let them loose.
But ask yourself why the offense has those plays to begin with. its cuz it was based around Smith who has limitations. if Kap were to get a whole off season to work with starters and a revamped offense based on him, i honestly think the offense can be more potent than with Smith ever could.

Hammettf2b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-03-2012, 04:05 PM
  #63
Gene Parmesan
Ball-So-Hard-U
 
Gene Parmesan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 25,992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammettf2b View Post
But ask yourself why the offense has those plays to begin with. its cuz it was based around Smith who has limitations. if Kap were to get a whole off season to work with starters and a revamped offense based on him, i honestly think the offense can be more potent than with Smith ever could.
I think it can too but will they let it? Thats my only worry. Kaep is a big time talent and its becoming clear hes the starter going forward but this team will not win the super bowl by playing it safe. The special teams aren't as good and the D hasn't been creating as many turnovers as last year. So they've gotta risk pushing the ball down the field to Moss and Davis and Crabtree. I understood why they didn't last year but this year it has annoyed me at times with the ultra conservative playcalling.

Gene Parmesan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:11 PM
  #64
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 29,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
The 4 teams Smith had good games against are a combined 21-27. The only good team in those 4 was Green Bay.

The 4 teams Smith were mediocre to terrible against are a combined 25-22. Vikings, Giants, and Seahawks are all potential playoff opponents.

There is already about a 50% that Smith struggles and that increases since he tends to struggle against better opponents, which becomes a problem in the playoffs since he won't have the Cardinals to beat up on.
This has got to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen because it contains so many slants, biases, and assumptions that it's not worth acknowledging. The simple reality of the matter is that Smith is the better player at this stage...period. Saying Smith tends to struggle against better opponents is irrelevant as that is the case with everyone. The better your opponent is, the harder it is. It's pretty simple.

The only question that matters is who is the better QB right now that gives the team the best chance at winning right now. The answer is Alex Smith and not Colin Kaepernick. So far in three games, Kaepernick has struggled in two of them. Three of four if you include the first St. Louis game he played in. By your logic, that means Kaepernick struggles in 66 to 75% of his games and he's shown problems against worse opponents.

I would have no problems cutting Smith and going with Kaepernick next season based on the potential I've seen. But right now with a kid that has a grand total of three starts under his belt and a guy that will have at most seven starts before the playoffs, he's just not ready to be the guy that gets them to the Super Bowl.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:22 PM
  #65
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
This has got to be one of the worst arguments I've ever seen because it contains so many slants, biases, and assumptions that it's not worth acknowledging. The simple reality of the matter is that Smith is the better player at this stage...period. Saying Smith tends to struggle against better opponents is irrelevant as that is the case with everyone. The better your opponent is, the harder it is. It's pretty simple.

The only question that matters is who is the better QB right now that gives the team the best chance at winning right now. The answer is Alex Smith and not Colin Kaepernick. So far in three games, Kaepernick has struggled in two of them. Three of four if you include the first St. Louis game he played in. By your logic, that means Kaepernick struggles in 66 to 75% of his games and he's shown problems against worse opponents.

I would have no problems cutting Smith and going with Kaepernick next season based on the potential I've seen. But right now with a kid that has a grand total of three starts under his belt and a guy that will have at most seven starts before the playoffs, he's just not ready to be the guy that gets them to the Super Bowl.
Yet it's still a more fact-based argument than the "Because some guy on the internet that goes by Pinkfloyd just said so" argument.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:29 PM
  #66
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 29,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Yet it's still a more fact-based argument than the "Because some guy on the internet that goes by Pinkfloyd just said so" argument.
It's not a fact-based argument. It's an assumption-based argument.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:39 PM
  #67
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's not a fact-based argument. It's an assumption-based argument.
Based on the fact that Alex Smith struggles badly in half his games. Even in Kaepernick's bad games he provides more total yards of offense than 7 of Smith's 8 games.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:58 PM
  #68
Clowe Me
Registered User
 
Clowe Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 530
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 14,969
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Based on the fact that Alex Smith struggles badly in half his games. Even in Kaepernick's bad games he provides more total yards of offense than 7 of Smith's 8 games.
Carson Palmer averages more yards/gm than Smith. Would he be a better qb for the 49ers than Smith?

Clowe Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 11:22 PM
  #69
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Carson Palmer plays for one of the worst defensive teams in the NFL and racks up garbage time yards with a different group of personnel so he is not a comparable.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 11:22 PM
  #70
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 29,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
Based on the fact that Alex Smith struggles badly in half his games. Even in Kaepernick's bad games he provides more total yards of offense than 7 of Smith's 8 games.
What you are calling struggles probably based on yards passing is not what is actually struggling with regards to play. Smith had one bad game this season...that's it.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 11:27 PM
  #71
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

Win Probability Added:
Kaepernick: 1.35
Smith: 0.89

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 12:11 AM
  #72
Pinkfloyd
Registered User
 
Pinkfloyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Roseville
Country: United States
Posts: 29,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?pos=QB

Win Probability Added:
Kaepernick: 1.35
Smith: 0.89
lol yeah that's not a skewed statistic.

Pinkfloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 12:59 AM
  #73
Brad Tolliver
Terror Goes Into
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Overtime
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
lol yeah that's not a skewed statistic.
It skews towards Kaepernick because he gives the 49ers a better chance to win.

Brad Tolliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 02:27 AM
  #74
Graveland
HONE YOUR CRAFT
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: United States
Posts: 10,760
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
It skews towards Kaepernick because he gives the 49ers a better chance to win.
Everything is skewed toward Kaepernick I think Dilfer said it best

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...owl/index.html

Graveland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 02:45 AM
  #75
Pajicz
Registered User
 
Pajicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Country:
Posts: 3,850
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to Pajicz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Tolliver View Post
It skews towards Kaepernick because he gives the 49ers a better chance to win.
If you think like this, you probably haven't seen more than two games this year...

Pajicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.