HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Marc Staal to St. Louis

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #76
Kane One
HFB Partner
 
Kane One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brooklyn, New NY
Country: United States
Posts: 31,542
vCash: 2400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Stepan is a playmaker, not a goal scorer. He is a lock for 50-60 points, and Backes' career high is 62 or something in one season. We can upgrade Step's outlook to 60-70 points in an 82-game season with Gaborik and a developed Hagelin/Kreider on his wings. Although he's not a defensive liability a la Semin, he's nowhere near Backes' two-way level, which is the only real big advantage Backes has. It would make no sense to have a line of three goal-scorers.
Whoa. I'm a Ranger fan as well, but that's a pretty high projection you got there for Stepan.

__________________
Kane One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 08:59 PM
  #77
Bluesnatic27
Registered User
 
Bluesnatic27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 739
vCash: 500
Random question here, but is Stepan out of the question in terms of a trade?
I don't know what I would give up for him or what he's worth, but I've always had this interest in him.

Bluesnatic27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:31 PM
  #78
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
Random question here, but is Stepan out of the question in terms of a trade?
I don't know what I would give up for him or what he's worth, but I've always had this interest in him.
Doesn't make sense for Rangers.

I doubt they get an upgrade, but like everyone's been saying, they are gunning for the cup. Richard-Stepan-Boyle is pretty much set in stone, each player is great for their role. Remove one and your scrambling and moving guys into roles they shouldn't be in and it hurts your overall depth.

If any trade threads with NY should be made, it should involve high profile players (most likely defenseman) moved to NY, not moved out...

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #79
ECL
If it weren’t for me
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 82,492
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
No way are we trading Shattenkirk for Staal. What St.Louis has available is young talented wingers. Guys like Stewart(RW), Schwartz(LW/C?), Rattie(RW/LW), and D'Agostini(RW/LW). Then of course prospects and draft picks. We might also include one of Cole(LD/RD) or Russell(LD) IF need be...That's pretty much what we have to offer right now trade wise, and Army would probably be willing to overpay for the right guy.

Here's what I would offer:

Stewart, Cole, and Rattie OR 1st Round Pick
Why would the Rangers want any of those things in a deal for Staal? We aren't rebuilding (no need for the 1st or Rattie) and don't want to downgrade our current team (all of the rest of the guys).

If you want Staal, you need to improve our current team or at least make it something of an even swap. We will not take picks and prospects for him unless those prospects are Tarasenko. And even then the Rangers likely wouldn't move Staal for him alone (I just have a hard time seeing Sather move Staal straight up for a single -- albeit very good -- prospect).

__________________
"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB
"Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
I still think there should be a section of people at MSG behind the visiting bench, in curly wigs, and dark rimmed glasses, calling themselves the Pidtophiles. - Zamboner
ECL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:37 PM
  #80
ECL
If it weren’t for me
 
ECL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 82,492
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ECL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Doesn't make sense for Rangers.

I doubt they get an upgrade, but like everyone's been saying, they are gunning for the cup. Richard-Stepan-Boyle is pretty much set in stone, each player is great for their role. Remove one and your scrambling and moving guys into roles they shouldn't be in and it hurts your overall depth.

If any trade threads with NY should be made, it should involve high profile players (most likely defenseman) moved to NY, not moved out...
I would entertain moving Stepan in a larger deal with Staal if Backes and a RHD PMD would be in the return. That's about it, though.

ECL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:38 PM
  #81
Yes We Cam
Good 1-2 punch
 
Yes We Cam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Whoa. I'm a Ranger fan as well, but that's a pretty high projection you got there for Stepan.
He thinks Stepan>>>>Backes>Jstaal

Yes We Cam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:44 PM
  #82
bleedblue1223
Fire Army
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 24,821
vCash: 130
The only way a trade works between contenders is if they have players of nearly exact caliber for needs of similar magnitude. If they had a defenseman that was in a situation like Stewart, then it would be a perfect scenario.

If we trade Shattenkirk and another piece, this is what our d would look like:

Staal-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Cole/Polak
Russell-Polak/Cole

That is dramatically worse in my opinion because Pietrangelo's pairing only gets marginally better because his pairing was already shutting down top lines with Colaiacovo, Huskins, and Cole on the other side. The 2nd pairing gets DRAMATICALLY worse because it exposes Jackman's liabilities with no true PMD.

Furthermore, our powerplay gets DRAMATICALLY worse because we only have 1 good powerplay quarterback, and our powerplay was at its best when we had Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk on the ice at the same time. Russell really isn't an offensive defenseman, and Cole is good for a defensive defenseman, he isn't someone to rely on.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:45 PM
  #83
The Amity Affliction
Chasing Ghosts
 
The Amity Affliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 9,384
vCash: 500
I don't think there's a deal here as both team's needs are being overstated here, as a fan of both, I don't think there's one deal that I could think of that could make either team better without completely screwing the other over.

The Rangers really just need a bottom pairing defenseman and some help on the 4th line at this point, but the 4th liner could possibly be filled from within. St. Louis can't afford to give away defenders.

St. Louis needs a top-pairing defender to play with Pietrangelo, but Staal can't be had for cheap and creates a gigantic hole in the Rangers lineup. No deal here.

The Amity Affliction is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:46 PM
  #84
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,520
vCash: 500
I think the Blues are better off picking a low-profile guy like Tallinder who can fill that role. He may not be as good as Staal, but he could be a nice complimentary guy to Pietrangelo and stabilizes the defense for the Blues.

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 09:48 PM
  #85
Zippy316
Registered User
 
Zippy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
The only way a trade works between contenders is if they have players of nearly exact caliber for needs of similar magnitude. If they had a defenseman that was in a situation like Stewart, then it would be a perfect scenario.

Tallinder
-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Polak/Cole
Much better. And all you have to give us is like D'Agostini and maybe a pick, depending on how much the Devils value Tallinder and/or D'Agostini.

Zippy316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:01 PM
  #86
bleedblue1223
Fire Army
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 24,821
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippy316 View Post
Much better. And all you have to give us is like D'Agostini and maybe a pick, depending on how much the Devils value Tallinder and/or D'Agostini.
For sure, but I just would prefer someone who could handle some powerplay time since we lost Colaiacovo. I'd be just fine going with Cole on the top unit instead of Tallinder, as Cole has been one of the few bright spots with Peoria this season.

bleedblue1223 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:28 PM
  #87
Kris Chreider
Pass Off The Pads
 
Kris Chreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC/Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 7,452
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooked on Ponics View Post
He thinks Stepan>>>>Backes>Jstaal
No, Stepan=/<Backes=/<Staal, but in a couple years Stepan>Backes and Stepan>/=Staal

Kris Chreider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 10:35 PM
  #88
CarvinSigX
Meh
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The IL Side
Country: United States
Posts: 10,151
vCash: 500
Off the deep end? You bet.

CarvinSigX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 11:21 PM
  #89
bluesfan94
#BackesforSelke
 
bluesfan94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 12,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
No, Stepan=/<Backes=/<Staal, but in a couple years Stepan>Backes and Stepan>/=Staal
And lemme guess, Kreider will be scoring 40+?

bluesfan94 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-04-2012, 11:47 PM
  #90
Boom Boom Geoffrion*
CarciLOL
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NYC
Country: Greece
Posts: 7,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
No, Stepan=/<Backes=/<Staal, but in a couple years Stepan>Backes and Stepan>/=Staal
Nonsense.

Stepan won't ever be as valuable as either Backes nor Staal. 2nd line centers are not equivalent to 1st pairing dmen. And Backes is easily the better overall forward.

Boom Boom Geoffrion* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 12:05 AM
  #91
h22prelude93
Registered User
 
h22prelude93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Why would the Rangers want any of those things in a deal for Staal? We aren't rebuilding (no need for the 1st or Rattie) and don't want to downgrade our current team (all of the rest of the guys).

If you want Staal, you need to improve our current team or at least make it something of an even swap. We will not take picks and prospects for him unless those prospects are Tarasenko. And even then the Rangers likely wouldn't move Staal for him alone (I just have a hard time seeing Sather move Staal straight up for a single -- albeit very good -- prospect).
Chris Stewart has shown he can be a legitimate 30 goal scorer in the right setting. Personally, I think he would fit in nicely in Tort's system. He's a big body with speed and a nose for the net. He would most likely come back to haunt St. Louis if we traded him. Ty Rattie is very close to being NHL ready. This will be his last year in Juniors, and he should be competing for a spot in the NHL next season. I realize that's not exactly a "now" player, but his potential is VERY high. The only reason he has been overlooked so much is due to playing with Sven Bärtschi, and he has shown this season that he can produce just the same without him. In fact, he was Team WHL's MVP in the recent Subway Super Series. Ian Cole is set to be Pietrangelo's partner if a trade isn't made. He can also play the right side if need be. He's a physical defenseman with good two-way ability, but at this point is probably more of a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy. Staal is a great young defenseman, and I would love to have him...BUT if it would take much more than that package then I'm honestly not at all interested.

h22prelude93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 12:14 AM
  #92
Ollie Queen
After 5 years...
 
Ollie Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10,471
vCash: 500
Some bad posts from Rangers fans (regarding Stepan/Backes) in the last page, but also a couple of really bad proposals from Blues fans as well (Cole, Stewart, Rattie? Quantity =/= quality and anything that doesn't help our odds IMMEDIATELY is a no-go; we're as competitive as we're ever likely to be and we're going all-in on the next couple of seasons).

The only way it would get done is centered around Staal for Shattenkirk (where Staal is the more valuable piece), IMO, with the Rangers adding something in order for the Blues to add one of Berglund, Steen, Stewart or Schwartz (even McDonald, perhaps, as a rental, to give us firepower in our best year to contend). Obviously, what the Rangers add is dependent on which of those forwards the Blues add, but it can't be anything of ginormous significance as it would be THE deal to complete the Rangers lineup, while at the same time, St. Louis would be getting the best player and completing a MONSTER pairing of Staal-Pietrangelo.

Something LIKE (don't judge, this is hypothetical and value would be adjusted):

Staal + JT Miller + 1st/2nd for Shattenkirk + Russell + Berglund/Schwartz/Stewart/Steen

Resulting in:

Nash - Richards - Callahan
Kreider - Stepan - Gaborik
Haglin - Berglund - Boyle
Pyatt - Halpern - Asham/Rupp
McDonagh - Girardi
Del Zotto - Shattenkirk
Russell - Stralman

and

Perron - Backes - Oshie
Steen - McDonald - Tarasenko
D'Agostini - Schwartz - Stewart
Langenbrunner - Nichol - Sobotka
Staal - Pietrangelo
Jackman - Polak
Cole - ??


Forgive me, I don't know how the Blues handle their lines, but you get the idea. The Blues would still have quite a bit of forward depth for parting with one of their middle tier forwards (No Backes, Oshie, Perron, Tarasenko) and their top pairing would be one of the best in the league, hands down, with many years left in the tank. The Rangers adding a more offensive RH shot at the expense of, probably, their best defenseman overall, but also adding (what I feel) is the missing piece of one more quality forward to round out the top 9 would be as primed as they will ever be to compete. In my opinion, as I stated earlier, we're likely going ALL-IN on the next couple of seasons, to the point where I would only make trades that help us now, and I would consider selling a great deal of futures, even overpaying, as long as the return makes us more complete, head to toe. If Staal is moving, but Shattenkirk is coming back (again, one for one, that would be a big win for STL), I'm willing to add FUTURES to Staal to the point that we're overpaying considerably, but only to add a piece like Berglund (or pay less but add something like McDonald just for a short-term, going for it situation) that is going to make our lineup COMPLETE, right now.

I doubt anything like this would ever get done, but it's actually the kind of move I would most consider letting Staal go in.


Last edited by Ollie Queen: 12-05-2012 at 12:19 AM.
Ollie Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 03:06 AM
  #93
letmesleep
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 313
vCash: 500
If that is what it takes to get Staal, no thanks. I don't think that hypothetical Blues team is better than the one we have now. We can't trade centers and dmen, those are the places we are thinnest.

letmesleep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 03:57 AM
  #94
Ollie Queen
After 5 years...
 
Ollie Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 10,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by letmesleep View Post
If that is what it takes to get Staal, no thanks. I don't think that hypothetical Blues team is better than the one we have now. We can't trade centers and dmen, those are the places we are thinnest.
You really think it's remotely possible to land a player like Staal for wingers not named Perron/Oshie/Tarasenko though? Even then, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Staal alone is more valuable than Perron alone or Oshie alone. Tarasenko is a toss up because of how highly touted he is, but do you give up stud #1 25 year old defenders on friendly contracts for a hot name that hasn't played a game in the NHL? When you're a legit Cup contender?

Ollie Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 03:59 AM
  #95
Oshie97
Registered User
 
Oshie97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,512
vCash: 500
Not good trading partners at all, both teams are looking to add without taking away too much from the current roster. Just does not work. If we get a partner for Petro it's more than likely from a non contender for a package of non core roster player, picks, and prospect. Not at all what NY would be looking for.

Oshie97 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 05:05 AM
  #96
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 9,895
vCash: 500
Shattenkirk and Tarasenko for Staal, #2 in 2013 and #1 in 2014. Considering that we are competing for the Cup, I wouldn't do it for less than this.

Beacon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 08:22 AM
  #97
Dolph Ziggler
#TeamZiggler Captain
 
Dolph Ziggler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Country: United States
Posts: 11,870
vCash: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
You really think it's remotely possible to land a player like Staal for wingers not named Perron/Oshie/Tarasenko though? Even then, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Staal alone is more valuable than Perron alone or Oshie alone. Tarasenko is a toss up because of how highly touted he is, but do you give up stud #1 25 year old defenders on friendly contracts for a hot name that hasn't played a game in the NHL? When you're a legit Cup contender?
No I wouldn't do it for anything less as a Rangers fan either. But it doesn't make sense for the Blues to give up that much.

Dolph Ziggler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 10:05 AM
  #98
hockeyGod
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,127
vCash: 500
I think Tampa would have to think about this one long and hard. Tough to move your straw but Staal is a fantastic dman, tough call

hockeyGod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 04:24 PM
  #99
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
You really think it's remotely possible to land a player like Staal for wingers not named Perron/Oshie/Tarasenko though? Even then, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say Staal alone is more valuable than Perron alone or Oshie alone. Tarasenko is a toss up because of how highly touted he is, but do you give up stud #1 25 year old defenders on friendly contracts for a hot name that hasn't played a game in the NHL? When you're a legit Cup contender?
This^, where the preference is Tarasenko.
Ergo, maybe something like:

Stall + Stepan + X (one significant prospect [not Kreider or from prospect Ds, we would need them directly or for trade for D after moving Staal] or two better but not lesser prospects adding up to that)
for
Tarasenko + Perron + Y (comparatively lesser prospects or picks)

.... something around this for a larger deal if we can't equalize on something smaller.

bernmeister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-05-2012, 04:47 PM
  #100
h22prelude93
Registered User
 
h22prelude93's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: St.Louis, Mo
Country: United States
Posts: 1,408
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Some bad posts from Rangers fans (regarding Stepan/Backes) in the last page, but also a couple of really bad proposals from Blues fans as well (Cole, Stewart, Rattie? Quantity =/= quality and anything that doesn't help our odds IMMEDIATELY is a no-go; we're as competitive as we're ever likely to be and we're going all-in on the next couple of seasons).

The only way it would get done is centered around Staal for Shattenkirk (where Staal is the more valuable piece), IMO, with the Rangers adding something in order for the Blues to add one of Berglund, Steen, Stewart or Schwartz (even McDonald, perhaps, as a rental, to give us firepower in our best year to contend). Obviously, what the Rangers add is dependent on which of those forwards the Blues add, but it can't be anything of ginormous significance as it would be THE deal to complete the Rangers lineup, while at the same time, St. Louis would be getting the best player and completing a MONSTER pairing of Staal-Pietrangelo.

Something LIKE (don't judge, this is hypothetical and value would be adjusted):

Staal + JT Miller + 1st/2nd for Shattenkirk + Russell + Berglund
Holy bat****! You call my proposal bad. This is horrible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Shattenkirk and Tarasenko for Staal, #2 in 2013 and #1 in 2014. Considering that we are competing for the Cup, I wouldn't do it for less than this.
So are we bud...you can keep him. Not a chance in hell that we are trading Vladi. These teams just do not make good trade partners. Period.

h22prelude93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.