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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIII: "The 11th Hour" Edition

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Old
12-05-2012, 05:34 AM
  #376
Beacon
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Let me just add this: I don't know how this will fix the NHL's problems. We have teams for whom the salary floor is 75% of their revenue and the salary cap is their whole revenue. So let's say that they go down to paying 65% of the revenue towards the floor and the cap is 90% of their revenue. That is still not sustainable because they have all types of other expenses.

Either we'll have to drop the floor so much that some teams will be able to field a team full of rookies and minor leaguers, getting 30 points per season, or we'll have to face the fact that some teams are just not profitable.

If a team can't afford to spend $50-55 million on player salaries and be profitable, then a question must be raised on either shutting down the team, moving it or having the wealthy teams sponsor it.

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12-05-2012, 06:08 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Man, talk about a interestnig scenario for us if this thing is solved now.

1. We have a contender. Nash. RICH NASH will put on ranger blue in camp. Girardi, Callahan and co are well rested. And so forth.

2. We could spend month's just talking about what will happend next summer.
Best typo ever

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12-05-2012, 06:19 AM
  #378
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Best typo ever
Darned, I was writing Rich up untill this summer when I learned that it was Rick. Old habbits...

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12-05-2012, 06:34 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Let me just add this: I don't know how this will fix the NHL's problems. We have teams for whom the salary floor is 75% of their revenue and the salary cap is their whole revenue. So let's say that they go down to paying 65% of the revenue towards the floor and the cap is 90% of their revenue. That is still not sustainable because they have all types of other expenses.

Either we'll have to drop the floor so much that some teams will be able to field a team full of rookies and minor leaguers, getting 30 points per season, or we'll have to face the fact that some teams are just not profitable.

If a team can't afford to spend $50-55 million on player salaries and be profitable, then a question must be raised on either shutting down the team, moving it or having the wealthy teams sponsor it.
"NHL's" problem?

The best definition of the "NHL" in this perspective is the collective group of owners. Given that there is the worst recession 80 years right now, there is only like a 2-3 clubs that are in real trouble. Then there is another handful who aren't likely to thrive.

I am sure a new CBA would help many owners. But at the bottom line, the numbers discussed is basically insignificant to pull anyone over the top so to speak. But why is that an issue for the NHL/collective group of owners? They don't share losses.

This is about:
1. An miscalculation by Bettman and Jacobs who thought the union would implode which would give the NHL a real advantage over other pro-sports (a busted union).
2. Franchise value and profits for the majority of owners, including the richest.

Its never been about Nashville and co.

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:13 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
*** BRIGHT SIDE ALERT ***

1) If the season starts some time soon, one could argue that this lockout was rather advantageous to their Cup chances because it means we didn't have to play without Gaborik. Right after the playoffs, it was announced that he would be gone for half a year or approximately until Thanksgiving. The extra few weeks of the lockout gave him a chance to be fully healed and not to be rushed because the team was in trouble offensively.

2) We would also be playing with Michael Sauer on defense. He reported made "tremendous progress" over the summer, but was still not ready 3 months ago. However, 3.5 to 4 months (from September to the end of the year) is a long time, and a lot of things can heal in that time. By now, it is a year since his injury.

3) Finally, we also allowed Kreider to develop in the supercharged AHL (supercharged because it has some NHLers and middling players who'd normally move back and forth). Instead of him struggling in the NHL, getting frustrated and sometimes having to watch while sitting next to Sather, he's adjusting to pro hockey in Hartford.


This year's team is not very deep at all. In fact, we'd probably need to add a third line center and a third line right wing to the current team in order to make it a prime Cup competitor.

Take out Gaborik and Sauer, and suddenly the team is very, very thin.

Nash - Brad - Cally
Hagelin - Stepan - Pyatt
Kreider - Boyle - Rupp
Asham - Halpern - Haley

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Stralman
MDZ - Eminger

Are you impressed with the depth of this lineup? Because I sure as hell am not. The second line is terrible, and the right side of the defense is weak. In fact, the whole right side is terrible, both RW and RD. Cally is not a first liner, Pyatt is not a second liner, Rupp isn't a third liner, and Haley shouldn't be taking regular shift. Girardi is good, but I'm not happy with both Stralman and Eminger in the lineup at the same time for a long term.

Now imagine what would happen if we suffered a couple of injuries, which we surely would've. Take out, say, Callahan and Stepan injured guys. Or Nash and Boyle. Suddenly, we are having both Newbury and Kolarik taking regular shift for a dozen minutes a game.

Nash - Brad - Pyatt
Hagelin - Boyle - Rupp
Kreider - Halpern - Kolarik
Asham - Newbury - Haley

Jesus... how do you win games with that kind of a lineup?

Add in Gaborik, Sauer and a more mature Kreider, and suddenly this squad is looking much better. We'll see how things turn out, but playing games after our guys return/mature is probably better than having the above lineup.
Add Hank to anything above and I am impressed

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:32 AM
  #381
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i'd like Arnott on a shortened season.

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12-05-2012, 08:01 AM
  #382
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A Lundqvist that doesn't have to play 65-70 then the playoffs makes me happy!

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12-05-2012, 08:18 AM
  #383
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How do we know Gaborik is ready to play?

Nash is injured.

Kreider is injured.

Hagelin was injured.

And wasn't McDonagh also injured?

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12-05-2012, 08:43 AM
  #384
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Gaborik has been skating for a few weeks now.

Nash is not injured, he has a sore groin. It happens when a player is out of shape.

Kreider has a strained neck.

Hagelin is resting and will be fine if they were to sign a deal today.

McDonagh is not injured.

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12-05-2012, 08:43 AM
  #385
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I think there was a deal worked out before this meeting yesterday. I think the Boston reporter had it right. This meeting yesterday and today is a show trying to save the players faces for the upcoming season so fans do not hold a grudge to the players. You can hate Bettman and Fehr (they don't care anyway, they get paid no matter what) but this way it makes it like the players have saved the NHL.

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12-05-2012, 08:45 AM
  #386
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I love how the story is now trying to be spun as "Crosby and the Pens owner come together in the spirit of holiday goodwill to save the season".

Just...wow NHL. Just when I was starting to come back around.

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Old
12-05-2012, 08:47 AM
  #387
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Considered that possibility, and maybe it's true, but they're best off to not drag it out too long just for show if that's the case. As in, today is the day, IF that's the case. I have a feeling we're going to wait a few more days and there's still work to be done. Also think the hardest part is passed now.

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12-05-2012, 08:50 AM
  #388
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Optimism is great. Hopefully, we'll hear a deal soon.

What was yesterday about? Maybe a deal was made behind the scenes ? Maybe not? The time frame works.

My view: The owners put their best offer forward. This is their final attempt to see where the players stand. Are the players going to use the offer to start a negotiation or will they go the rest of the way and accept the owners deal? Are the owners desperate enough to accept whatever the players offer? The jury is still out. In all likelihood if this negotiation fails the season is over.

My point is that the optimism is in the air. I'm sure the owners came off their positions. The players were happy walking out of the room How will they handle their good fortune?

I'm hopeful but still not fully willing to buy into the optimism 100%.

A DEc 1 date was always in the script so the time frame of a settlement at this tine works.

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12-05-2012, 08:51 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I love how the story is now trying to be spun as "Crosby and the Pens owner come together in the spirit of holiday goodwill to save the season".

Just...wow NHL. Just when I was starting to come back around.
Again, who cares? Apparently the Pens owner Burkle was instrumental in finally getting the players/owners on the same page and Crosby did go outside of the rules to talk to him and get some PA moderates in the room to try and get traction. I don't think he's a savior but there's no need to hate on him and who cares how they want to spin it if hockey is back? He's the face of hockey and, savior or no, at least he clearly wants to be playing. Amazes me how hard it is for hockey fans to simply not hate one of the best, and most dedicated, in the world.

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Old
12-05-2012, 08:53 AM
  #390
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We shall see what happens today.

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Old
12-05-2012, 08:54 AM
  #391
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I don't care what the reports say, I will believe it when I see it!

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12-05-2012, 09:02 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Gaborik has been skating for a few weeks now.

Nash is not injured, he has a sore groin. It happens when a player is out of shape.

Kreider has a strained neck.

Hagelin is resting and will be fine if they were to sign a deal today.

McDonagh is not injured.
Gaborik's shoulder was injured. He can skate all he wants. Can he shoot a puck? Can he take a hit?

Nash's groin has been an issue more than once already this season.

What proof is there that Hagelin will be OK to play a physical game?

This lockout hasn't done anything at all to help this team.

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:07 AM
  #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I love how the story is now trying to be spun as "Crosby and the Pens owner come together in the spirit of holiday goodwill to save the season".

Just...wow NHL. Just when I was starting to come back around.
Any chance they get to cram that little princess down our throats.

Forget Crosby has been one of the hardline players in this fiasco that couldn't keep his Malkin sucker shut for five minutes in the media.

They have to repair his image anyway they can. He's the poster boy.

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12-05-2012, 09:09 AM
  #394
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And there's no guarantee those players wouldn't have been hurt if the NHL season had started on time. Not really worth worrying about at this point.

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:30 AM
  #395
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Larry Brooks ‏@NYP_Brooksie
Progress, yes, but told "long way to go." How much more do players have to give? How much less will league be willing to take?

Andy Strickland ‏@andystrickland
It's naive to think both Gary Bettman and Donald Fehr aren't "involved" in meetings yesterday and today #NHL #NHLPA

Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
RT @RenLavoieRDS: No Gary Bettman and Don Fehr at the table again this morning.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
#cba: "Everybody seems positive. But who knows." -a Board of Governor

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper
With pressure on #NHL and #NHLPA to still get in a 60 game reg season expect some form of proposal and counter proposal by end of day.


Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Burkle is in the building. #news


All recent tweets.

Rob Longley ‏@longleysunsport
NHL telling us that there's a good chance Bettman will cancel his post Board of Governers' meeting press conference. #NHL #NHLPA


Last edited by RGY: 12-05-2012 at 09:35 AM.
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Old
12-05-2012, 09:39 AM
  #396
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Rob Longley ‏@longleysunsport
NHL telling us that there's a good chance Bettman will cancel his post Board of Governers' meeting press conference. #NHL #NHLPA
This could be a good thing, being I cant imagine his press conference would contain any other useful information besides "the drop dead date to begin the season is....."

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Old
12-05-2012, 09:41 AM
  #397
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
This could be a good thing, being I cant imagine his press conference would contain any other useful information besides "the drop dead date to begin the season is....."
That's what I was thinking. No reason to talk about a meeting when there are ongoing discussions that may make that meeting irrelevant...or the meeting discussed the negotiations and how the season may start at a certain date like you said.

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12-05-2012, 09:41 AM
  #398
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saying there's "a long ways to go" is dumb, they're not rewriting the entire CBA. Things can change in a hurry if one side or another shifts its position and once the core things are agreed to, **** will get done really fast

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12-05-2012, 09:43 AM
  #399
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“@SunDoniB: Claude Giroux (Germ) and Chris Kelly (Switz) have returned from Europe and are skating with union brothers at Carleton #nhl #nhllockout”

i know Girux is hurt but what about Kelly?

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12-05-2012, 09:46 AM
  #400
RGY
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Originally Posted by PassShootScore View Post
“@SunDoniB: Claude Giroux (Germ) and Chris Kelly (Switz) have returned from Europe and are skating with union brothers at Carleton #nhl #nhllockout”

i know Girux is hurt but what about Kelly?
I don't think that means much, just my opinion.

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