IIHF World ChampionshipDiscuss International Tournaments like the WJC, Olympics, and World Cup, as they take place, or discuss past tournaments. performances.
I actually want the fully loaded Team Canada more than I want the NHL back at this point. I hope the NHL waits until January at earliest for a resolution. I am gonna be pissed if in the next couple days the lockout is over... because then it's like why didn't you guys just do this back in September. You've wasted all the time up until now and just when some of us finally get something to look forward to, it basically gets taken away.
If the lockout does end, I hope everybody (minus maybe RNH, who would for sure belong back in the NHL) gets left for the WJC instead of training camp/games and I hope they just let teams keep them for 9 games once back.
I'm with you here. My outlook is optimistic with regard to this.
I think just based on where the NHL is in their talks that its at least a week before an actual deal got hammered out. This is assuming they take massive leaps and bounds etc. during the meetings today, and it would take another few days to hammer things out, set up a schedule and announce it.
At that point I think you're looking at probably 3 weeks at the earliest til the season would start (games after new years), because training camps would be ongoing before that to get guys back in shape. So I think even at this point we're looking at a post new-year's start.
The only guy we would lose is likely RNH. I think most NHL teams would prefer to have their guys play at the WJ's and join teams for the last week of their camp rather than come home to skate with NHLers who are in pre-season form, vs. these Jr. guys who are in top shape.
this is CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!why can,t all players even with NHL teams come and play for there country if they are eligible?
this is where soccer in Europe has it over Hockey, no soccer team in Europe would tell the players that they can,t play for there country it an honour!
The NHL clubs have a say because they're investing millions of dollars into players to play for their team. Representing the national team is secondary, especially at the junior level. What if they're forced to allow these players to play and they get injured? It could ruin a teams season or the development of that player (depending on severity). If the players signed a contract with their NHL team and added clauses so that they could be released for all national team events then it would be acceptable to force them to release the players. Nobody does that though.
I don't see why the NHL teams wouldn't let the players play in the WJC even if a deal is done before. It'll be better for them if you ask me.
I'm sure they'd like/hope to, but there are lots of things that get in the way. If these players really are good enough to contribute to their NHL teams this year, can they afford to miss them for 5-6 games of a compressed schedule if the lockout ends? Backing up, though, teams want to see these guys in camp before having to decide if they're going to stick with the big club permanently for the season. Under the old rules, these decisions had to be made by a certain date (I might be wrong, but I think the WJC timing surpasses the limits under the old rules), but teams don't even know what the rules considering eligibility will end up looking like in the new CBA, so they might not even be able to "fully release" their junior-eligible players when all is said and done. Others have brought up injury concerns, which are legitimate, but likely not anywhere near a "real" concern aside from guys like RNH who are known to be recuperating from injury.
That's why no teams have issued statements "officially releasing" any of these players, even though we know there will be NHL draft picks suiting up for Team Canada at the end of the day, regardless - it just remains to be seen which ones.
I'm sure they'd like/hope to, but there are lots of things that get in the way. If these players really are good enough to contribute to their NHL teams this year, can they afford to miss them for 5-6 games of a compressed schedule if the lockout ends? Backing up, though, teams want to see these guys in camp before having to decide if they're going to stick with the big club permanently for the season. Under the old rules, these decisions had to be made by a certain date (I might be wrong, but I think the WJC timing surpasses the limits under the old rules), but teams don't even know what the rules considering eligibility will end up looking like in the new CBA, so they might not even be able to "fully release" their junior-eligible players when all is said and done.
That's why no teams have issued statements "officially releasing" any of these players, even though we know there will be NHL draft picks suiting up for Team Canada at the end of the day, regardless - it just remains to be seen which ones.
Devo Smith-Pelly is a great example of why teams are hesitant.
Its a great experience, but you're playing against better competition at a FAR more intense level then in jr/ncaa and obviously nhl training camps. Guys push themselves harder are willing to sacrifice more etc. All it takes is one play to possibly derail their season.
If you're the Panthers or the Hurricanes you definitely don't want to see Huberdeau or Murphy injured while not in uniform. It makes it a tough decision.
Devo Smith-Pelly is a great example of why teams are hesitant.
Its a great experience, but you're playing against better competition at a FAR more intense level then in jr/ncaa and obviously nhl training camps. Guys push themselves harder are willing to sacrifice more etc. All it takes is one play to possibly derail their season.
If you're the Panthers or the Hurricanes you definitely don't want to see Huberdeau or Murphy injured while not in uniform. It makes it a tough decision.
Yeah, but here's the thing, though. This only really concerns players who teams think have legitimate shots at the NHL this year. Now, unless the player is currently injured, or recovering from injury, how can potential durability be a "legitimate" concern playing against U20s - considering they are being seriously considered for a permanent position in a compressed NHL grind? It sucks when an injury like Smith-Pelly's happens, but if challenging and evaluating assets is of any importance to a professional hockey organization (and we know it is) then keeping them in glass jars until NHL game day just isn't feasible or logical.
Heck, if teams thought like that they'd have to consider eliminating practise from the routine because of the daily risk, etc. These guys are already playing everyday in jerseys that don't belong to their NHL organizations, so I don't see them stressing on the "risk management" side of things above legal/logistical concerns (call up constraints, ELCs, RFA years, etc).
Last edited by Ohashi_Jouzu: 12-05-2012 at 10:30 AM.
Can't see the lockout ending within the next 3 weeks. Even if it did, it would take some time to get 'er going. I think they call up the nhl jr players after the tournament. They garner even more even more aggravation from the fans if they didn't.
I actually want the fully loaded Team Canada more than I want the NHL back at this point. I hope the NHL waits until January at earliest for a resolution. I am gonna be pissed if in the next couple days the lockout is over... because then it's like why didn't you guys just do this back in September. You've wasted all the time up until now and just when some of us finally get something to look forward to, it basically gets taken away.
If the lockout does end, I hope everybody (minus maybe RNH, who would for sure belong back in the NHL) gets left for the WJC instead of training camp/games and I hope they just let teams keep them for 9 games once back.
I'm with you on that one! 100% would be the logical things to do... If you were an NHLer last year, go back to your NHL team, if you have no NHL experience, (9 game EL tryout doesn't count M. Scheiffle) then you stay junior until after the tournament.
Devo Smith-Pelly is a great example of why teams are hesitant.
Its a great experience, but you're playing against better competition at a FAR more intense level then in jr/ncaa and obviously nhl training camps. Guys push themselves harder are willing to sacrifice more etc. All it takes is one play to possibly derail their season.
If you're the Panthers or the Hurricanes you definitely don't want to see Huberdeau or Murphy injured while not in uniform. It makes it a tough decision.
I know everyone is concerned about losing players who may be NHL ready or at least invited to a camp this season. BUT IN REALITY, no NHL team is is going to waste a year of an entry level contract on a half season; especially when these players are still 18, 19 years of age. Huberdeau, Murphy, Hamilton, Jenner, Strome, all the 11 guys that ones have mentioned will not be called upon to play in a shortened season. More than likely, just the camp. But if they make the WJC roster, i'm pretty sure their NHL owners would want them there competing against the best in the world at their age; instead of at training camp with outta shape NHL players. Just to be sent back to their respective junior teams and then miss out on the WJC. Only elite talent would make a NHL team and play especially in a shorten season. Like a Crosby, RNH, etc.
Really only RNH and Murray(injured) would've been a possibility of being lost in IMO. Obviously you never know, what a NHL team is thinking especially with prospects. Just like I'm sure many ppl will be surprised by the players selected for the final WJC roster for Canada.
I would think Danault and McNeill are the two players on Chicago's list - with that said, neither has any legit shot of making the team this year, so probably wouldn't be pulled from the tournament.
I haven't seen the list, I just heard an interview with a journalist who mentioned the list and that there were 11 players who could potentially be recalled to NHL camps leaving the NT in state of limbo. The only player I know for sure is Rielly.
The NHL clubs have a say because they're investing millions of dollars into players to play for their team. Representing the national team is secondary, especially at the junior level. What if they're forced to allow these players to play and they get injured? It could ruin a teams season or the development of that player (depending on severity). If the players signed a contract with their NHL team and added clauses so that they could be released for all national team events then it would be acceptable to force them to release the players. Nobody does that though.
like I said in the post before in soccer its an honour to play for your countryand paid a lot more money injuries or not, these players are only 18 years old they are still juniors!
raise draft age to 19 or 20 end of problem! I hope those greedy NHL players don,t seattle till next year!
I'm with you here. My outlook is optimistic with regard to this.
I think just based on where the NHL is in their talks that its at least a week before an actual deal got hammered out. This is assuming they take massive leaps and bounds etc. during the meetings today, and it would take another few days to hammer things out, set up a schedule and announce it.
At that point I think you're looking at probably 3 weeks at the earliest til the season would start (games after new years), because training camps would be ongoing before that to get guys back in shape. So I think even at this point we're looking at a post new-year's start.
The only guy we would lose is likely RNH. I think most NHL teams would prefer to have their guys play at the WJ's and join teams for the last week of their camp rather than come home to skate with NHLers who are in pre-season form, vs. these Jr. guys who are in top shape.
This is a good point, it would still take a bit before the official season would even begin. I really hope that if it does end in the next week or so that they do allow the eligible players to go compete for their country, even RNH if he wants to.
I mean, I know if it does end he's likely not there but I would love to see him anchoring the top line. Since I wasn't into hockey during the last lockout, seeing a team like this live would be pretty cool, albeit for very very dumb reasons (the lockout itself).
I actually want the fully loaded Team Canada more than I want the NHL back at this point. I hope the NHL waits until January at earliest for a resolution. I am gonna be pissed if in the next couple days the lockout is over... because then it's like why didn't you guys just do this back in September. You've wasted all the time up until now and just when some of us finally get something to look forward to, it basically gets taken away.
If the lockout does end, I hope everybody (minus maybe RNH, who would for sure belong back in the NHL) gets left for the WJC instead of training camp/games and I hope they just let teams keep them for 9 games once back.
This. I will not watch a minute of the season if it comes back before the WJC. That is the only thing that will make me angry. Take the whole season off or come back in January... I don't care. But don't come back before the WJC. I've waited this long, so don't ruin my favourite tournament too.
I do like this combination, however its almost a guarantee that Murphy will get a spot. Could be the 7th spot though...
I think it'll be a 7th spot. He's a PP specialist guy... would be great to have him rested play the full 2 mins on the PP, pair him with Hamilton/Dumba somebody with a heavy shot. I don't think there's anyway Spott leaves him off.
As for pairings, not sure if they'll roll Reinhart and Dumba on the same pairing as they're both younger guys... but either way I think Reinhart is a lock because he's probably the only true big physical shutdown type at camp. Dumba will have some tight competition vs. Sproul/Corrado etc.
This. I will not watch a minute of the season if it comes back before the WJC. That is the only thing that will make me angry. Take the whole season off or come back in January... I don't care. But don't come back before the WJC. I've waited this long, so don't ruin my favourite tournament too.
Absolutely correct. The whole NHL lock out has enough people pissed off. They should do the right thing and let all the eligibile players play the WJC. I can see RNH being the exception.
I know everyone is concerned about losing players who may be NHL ready or at least invited to a camp this season. BUT IN REALITY, no NHL team is is going to waste a year of an entry level contract on a half season; especially when these players are still 18, 19 years of age. Huberdeau, Murphy, Hamilton, Jenner, Strome, all the 11 guys that ones have mentioned will not be called upon to play in a shortened season. More than likely, just the camp. But if they make the WJC roster, i'm pretty sure their NHL owners would want them there competing against the best in the world at their age; instead of at training camp with outta shape NHL players. Just to be sent back to their respective junior teams and then miss out on the WJC. Only elite talent would make a NHL team and play especially in a shorten season. Like a Crosby, RNH, etc.
Really only RNH and Murray(injured) would've been a possibility of being lost in IMO. Obviously you never know, what a NHL team is thinking especially with prospects. Just like I'm sure many ppl will be surprised by the players selected for the final WJC roster for Canada.
I wish I shared your optimism. Teams have wasted an entire year of entry level by signing a college free agent at the end of the NCAA season, then playing them just a couple of games at the end of the NHL season. I suspect more players than you think will be going to the NHL if the lockout ends soon.
Eric Francis @EricFrancis
Something weird going on with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins as Oilers say they can't comment on him at this time. Status very unclear for World Jrs
Eric Francis is a complete Flames homer. Totally unreliable when it comes to Oilers news. I wouldn't be suprised if this was an attempt to make Nuge look a lot more injured then he really is. Bob McKenzie has already said he isn't neccesarily injured, he's just been taken out of the lineup because the shoulder needs a little more resting from the previous injury and he also projects him on the World Junior team.
Eric Francis is a complete Flames homer. Totally unreliable when it comes to Oilers news. I wouldn't be suprised if this was an attempt to make Nuge look a lot more injured then he really is. Bob McKenzie has already said he isn't neccesarily injured, he's just been taken out of the lineup because the shoulder needs a little more resting from the previous injury and he also projects him on the World Junior team.
I read the francis thing more as NHL may start up soon, but maybe that was just my optomistic side.
I know everyone is concerned about losing players who may be NHL ready or at least invited to a camp this season. BUT IN REALITY, no NHL team is is going to waste a year of an entry level contract on a half season; especially when these players are still 18, 19 years of age. Huberdeau, Murphy, Hamilton, Jenner, Strome, all the 11 guys that ones have mentioned will not be called upon to play in a shortened season. More than likely, just the camp. But if they make the WJC roster, i'm pretty sure their NHL owners would want them there competing against the best in the world at their age; instead of at training camp with outta shape NHL players. Just to be sent back to their respective junior teams and then miss out on the WJC. Only elite talent would make a NHL team and play especially in a shorten season. Like a Crosby, RNH, etc.
Really only RNH and Murray(injured) would've been a possibility of being lost in IMO. Obviously you never know, what a NHL team is thinking especially with prospects. Just like I'm sure many ppl will be surprised by the players selected for the final WJC roster for Canada.
I disagree, because they'd be playing for a full NHL season that just happens to have half as many games. If a player is going to help a team win they will have him on the roster.
Brad May was on sportnet the other day talking about the 48 game '94-'95 season and he said that if you ask players from that year they will attest to how tough it was, how it was a sprint to the stanley cup and how for them there is no asterix next to that year.
