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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 5)

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12-05-2012, 09:26 AM
  #951
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You just contradicted yourself...

"He's not saying (points are the key) at alll...."

"If you don't have offence from your back end you team can't hang..."

So you guys believe points ARE the key to players.
Well for a team that has scored the fewest goals in the western conference and near the bottom in all of the OHL I would say getting production from your D is very important and that isn't happening. Ebert has been quite productive, Sieloff has been ok in fact he's probably brought more than people thought and Murphy has been productive so far.

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12-05-2012, 09:27 AM
  #952
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I knew it was all about goals and assists. Screw what happens in the room, or if a player is good defensively. If he can't put up big-time points, he's not worthy of a top spot. Am I right?
To me it's not about goals and assists, it's about talent. In some cases, especially underperforming teams, hard work outdoes talent, but on good teams that is usually not the case. Windsor, IMO, is underperforming this year, so people tend to praise Posa, because he puts up a consistent effort, but really outside of his work ethic, what part of his game shines?
Look at Windsor's D the years they won:
08/09: Ellis, Cundari, Young, Shutron, Blacker, Kwiet
09/10: Ellis, Cundari, Young, Fowler, Cantin, Duinick

Where does a guy like Posa fit? I don't think that he plays in 08/09 and is number 6 in 09/10. I like Posa, he's a hard worker and he's a serviceable player, but on good teams, he's a lower pairing dman.

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12-05-2012, 09:47 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by Raisy View Post
To me it's not about goals and assists, it's about talent. In some cases, especially underperforming teams, hard work outdoes talent, but on good teams that is usually not the case. Windsor, IMO, is underperforming this year, so people tend to praise Posa, because he puts up a consistent effort, but really outside of his work ethic, what part of his game shines?
Look at Windsor's D the years they won:
08/09: Ellis, Cundari, Young, Shutron, Blacker, Kwiet
09/10: Ellis, Cundari, Young, Fowler, Cantin, Duinick

Where does a guy like Posa fit? I don't think that he plays in 08/09 and is number 6 in 09/10. I like Posa, he's a hard worker and he's a serviceable player, but on good teams, he's a lower pairing dman.
I agree with this, terrific post.

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12-05-2012, 10:00 AM
  #954
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hes not saying this at alll ... hes saying that what if u do look at the best teams in the league who is there top defenceman ?

in todays legue u have different roles and if u dont have offence from your back end you team cant hang ....

GUYS im just trying to be real about our spits .... and with posa i dont hate the kid at all , its good that he gives hes time to do things , but at the end of the day its not hes choice to did it, since hes the captin he has to do whatever managment says..........

i know alot of ppl on here think they know hockey but unless u have played/lived it you really dont know the whole story. there is alot that goes on behind the seens

the way this team is build is **** plain an simply and it all falls on WR an BB
Umm look at london how many points does there top Defensman have? oh yea 8 not 25 and look at that hes in the world juniours and for us sieloff 9 points well get off the team hes garbage with only 9 points right? Posa is getting a slap in the face from you fans that are hating there is atleast 85% of the team you should be hating on before him...NO ONE HERE IS SAYING HES GREAT but hes a good average defenseman that keeps it simple dosent make alot of mistakes and you can trust him in every situation.

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12-05-2012, 10:17 AM
  #955
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Umm look at london how many points does there top Defensman have? oh yea 8 not 25 and look at that hes in the world juniours and for us sieloff 9 points well get off the team hes garbage with only 9 points right? Posa is getting a slap in the face from you fans that are hating there is atleast 85% of the team you should be hating on before him...NO ONE HERE IS SAYING HES GREAT but hes a good average defenseman that keeps it simple dosent make alot of mistakes and you can trust him in every situation.
Maatta has 3g 21a, Zadorov 2g 9a, Ferry 0g 10a, Harrington 1g 7a. London clearly gets more production from their D. Zadorov is projected 1st rounder, Harrington is one of the best shutdown D in the league, Ferry has put up better numbers than Posa. Why start lumping the D with the forwards. So 85% you should get rid of but keep Posa around? If you want to get rid of 85% of them just get rid of the whole team.

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12-05-2012, 10:43 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Maatta has 3g 21a, Zadorov 2g 9a, Ferry 0g 10a, Harrington 1g 7a. London clearly gets more production from their D. Zadorov is projected 1st rounder, Harrington is one of the best shutdown D in the league, Ferry has put up better numbers than Posa. Why start lumping the D with the forwards. So 85% you should get rid of but keep Posa around? If you want to get rid of 85% of them just get rid of the whole team.
I'm not so sure London gets that much more production from the blue line than windsor. Ebert 4g 13a (was also a projected first rounder, so we all know that's means something) Sieloff 3g 6a, a handful of points from the rest. Considering the wealth of firepower at forward that London has compared to windsor, it's really not that big of a production gap. They might have a few more 2nd assists, but they aren't significantly more productive as a unit overall.

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12-05-2012, 11:00 AM
  #957
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
Maatta has 3g 21a, Zadorov 2g 9a, Ferry 0g 10a, Harrington 1g 7a. London clearly gets more production from their D. Zadorov is projected 1st rounder, Harrington is one of the best shutdown D in the league, Ferry has put up better numbers than Posa. Why start lumping the D with the forwards. So 85% you should get rid of but keep Posa around? If you want to get rid of 85% of them just get rid of the whole team.
theres no point anymore to you think guys hes terable, its not his fault hes been are second and maybe are third best defenseman, its the 5/6 slot that needs improving Posa IS doing his part bielieve it or not, and i never said get rid of 85 % of the team but there is atleast 85% Of the team to critisize before posa ill name a couple:

1.Kerby(Line changes skates like a slug off the ice and dosent really hustle unless the play is going towards the opponents net)

2/3.Johnson/Meletta(there invisable)

4/5.Bateman/Mcnoughton(Give aways constantly, there shaky, Batemans been a bit better latley)

6.Studnicka(Dosent do much, throws the odd hit, gets the very odd point)

7.Bilcke(I like this kid but is useless offensively and he misses 75% of his hits)

8.Verbeek(Love the way he plays with speed grit and i think he will be good but probably isent ready for the OHL knowing he has zero points in 20 games)

9.Lorentz(Havent seen him since his first game, and what ive heard from Petes and Rangers fans he will have a great game one night and wont see him again for 5/6 games,plus hes soft)


Those are just nine that should be critisized more then Posa and there is a few more players,Posa isent GREAT but deservers his spot on the back end hes a responsible dman you can trust im not saying hes great or anything but he shouldnt get this many negative comments on him theres players that are doing alot worse that needs to step up.

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12-05-2012, 11:10 AM
  #958
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I just think people need to stop and think that its not all about the points when it comes to OA, Especially OA defencemen.

You guys are NEVER going to change my way of thinking. I'm all about the defensive defencemen. Guys Like Adam Foote, Scott Stevens, Nickalus Kronwall, Tim Horton, Harry Young, Ben Shutron, Brett Angel, Marc Cantin, Mark Cundari, and Posa are My key type of players to name a few..They shut down guys and put the puck in the net every once in a while.

If you guys want to ridicule a player ridicule the forwards. They are the main point of our production. They are not scoring or getting the points. The defencemen shouldnt be asked to get 100 points a season cause the forwards can't cut it.


Before you guys say it I have Ellis as my pic because he is a diamond in the rough, he can put the puck in net at will but he can shut down opposing players if he really wanted to.

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12-05-2012, 11:15 AM
  #959
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Harry Young switched to forward i laughed out loud when i saw it...I dont think hes fast enough to bew a defensman.

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12-05-2012, 11:21 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by spits2timechamps View Post
I just think people need to stop and think that its not all about the points when it comes to OA, Especially OA defencemen.

You guys are NEVER going to change my way of thinking. I'm all about the defensive defencemen. Guys Like Adam Foote, Scott Stevens, Nickalus Kronwall, Tim Horton, Harry Young, Ben Shutron, Brett Angel, Marc Cantin, Mark Cundari, and Posa are My key type of players to name a few..They shut down guys and put the puck in the net every once in a while.

If you guys want to ridicule a player ridicule the forwards. They are the main point of our production. They are not scoring or getting the points. The defencemen shouldnt be asked to get 100 points a season cause the forwards can't cut it.


Before you guys say it I have Ellis as my pic because he is a diamond in the rough, he can put the puck in net at will but he can shut down opposing players if he really wanted to.
I agree i would rather have a good Defensive Defenseman then a great Offensive Defenceman, i think if you play as a DEFENSEman then thats what should be your number 1 priority unless that is your just that skilled to be good offensively and at the same tim be even better defensively(Ellis,S.Weber,etc).Posa and Sieloff are DFD and Ebert used to be a OFD and was a really bad DFD now hes a solid Two way Defenceman.

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12-05-2012, 11:28 AM
  #961
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Originally Posted by Spitsfan67 View Post
Harry Young switched to forward i laughed out loud when i saw it...I dont think hes fast enough to bew a defensman.
I don't think anyone expects him to blow by defensmen, they expect him to punch people in the face.

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12-05-2012, 11:40 AM
  #962
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I don't think anyone expects him to blow by defensmen, they expect him to punch people in the face.
Obviously hes expected to transform into a 4th line grinder/tough guy kind of player but a little bit of foot speed would help him go a long ways...

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12-05-2012, 11:59 AM
  #963
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67 we just have a different opinion. We can discuss this further when the team is a 7th or 8th seed and gets knocked out early in the playoffs. I have nothing personal against Posa I just think it will be good when he's gone and finally we don't have to hear about "Posa the last player on the team from the Memorial Cup days." It's time to move on from that, those Memorial Cups are long gone we need to move in a different direction and into a different era, until Posa is gone they can't move on.

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12-05-2012, 12:10 PM
  #964
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
67 we just have a different opinion. We can discuss this further when the team is a 7th or 8th seed and gets knocked out early in the playoffs. I have nothing personal against Posa I just think it will be good when he's gone and finally we don't have to hear about "Posa the last player on the team from the Memorial Cup days." It's time to move on from that, those Memorial Cups are long gone we need to move in a different direction and into a different era, until Posa is gone they can't move on.
Yea i agree were in different ball parks, im not saying hes great but hes solid and is one of are mose reponsible players on the team and deserves the C 100%....Everyone has there opinions i think people are just undervaluing Posa like he has been getting his whole career.

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12-05-2012, 01:41 PM
  #965
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I just think people need to stop and think that its not all about the points when it comes to OA, Especially OA defencemen.

You guys are NEVER going to change my way of thinking. I'm all about the defensive defencemen. Guys Like Adam Foote, Scott Stevens, Nickalus Kronwall, Tim Horton, Harry Young, Ben Shutron, Brett Angel, Marc Cantin, Mark Cundari, and Posa are My key type of players to name a few..They shut down guys and put the puck in the net every once in a while.

If you guys want to ridicule a player ridicule the forwards. They are the main point of our production. They are not scoring or getting the points. The defencemen shouldnt be asked to get 100 points a season cause the forwards can't cut it.


Before you guys say it I have Ellis as my pic because he is a diamond in the rough, he can put the puck in net at will but he can shut down opposing players if he really wanted to.
half of the guys u mention r offensive d-man

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12-05-2012, 02:18 PM
  #966
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To me it's not about goals and assists, it's about talent. In some cases, especially underperforming teams, hard work outdoes talent, but on good teams that is usually not the case. Windsor, IMO, is underperforming this year, so people tend to praise Posa, because he puts up a consistent effort, but really outside of his work ethic, what part of his game shines?
Look at Windsor's D the years they won:
08/09: Ellis, Cundari, Young, Shutron, Blacker, Kwiet
09/10: Ellis, Cundari, Young, Fowler, Cantin, Duinick

Where does a guy like Posa fit? I don't think that he plays in 08/09 and is number 6 in 09/10. I like Posa, he's a hard worker and he's a serviceable player, but on good teams, he's a lower pairing dman.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Awesome.

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12-05-2012, 02:26 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by izzys View Post
hes not saying this at alll ... hes saying that what if u do look at the best teams in the league who is there top defenceman ?

in todays legue u have different roles and if u dont have offence from your back end you team cant hang ....

GUYS im just trying to be real about our spits .... and with posa i dont hate the kid at all , its good that he gives hes time to do things , but at the end of the day its not hes choice to did it, since hes the captin he has to do whatever managment says..........

i know alot of ppl on here think they know hockey but unless u have played/lived it you really dont know the whole story. there is alot that goes on behind the seens

the way this team is build is **** plain an simply and it all falls on WR an BB
I play hockey I'm all for Posa. And so you are saying if you are not an offensive DEFENCEman then you have no reason to be on the team? Yes the Spits need a few more changes, but that's to bring in players who play their hearts out every night like Posa and Schoenmakers! And are you saying Posa has to go out and do all the stuff he does in the community because the management MADE him do it? Buddy, Posa is an awesome kid and did all the stuff WAY before he was captain. But one thing I do agree with you on is this team needs some change. But Posa's not gonna be one of them.

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12-05-2012, 02:40 PM
  #968
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You're completely wrong. My point is Ebert has been more productive in his career and in shorter time as compared to Posa. There are more productive or at least equal to Posa OA D in the OHL compared to Posa eg. Miller, O'Connor, Silas, Cardwell, Wind, Beukeboom, Schemitsch, Petgrave, Hughes, Levi. The Spits have some of the worst OA's in the league that's a fact and they need more production out of all the current ones. No it's not about putting up big time numbers it's just the fact he isn't capable of playing in all situations and you have to watch his minutes because he can't handle a large workload.
See, for me, production means producing, which is points. Value to a team is everything else - his ice time, his versatility, and his locker room presence.

Raisy - You're comparing an incredible club with the one we have now. Posa, on those two teams, wouldn't be within the top four, or even five. That doesn't say much, though, given we had guys like Dale Mitchell and Scott Timmins who could have been fourth-line guys with us. For what it's worth, I'd take Posa over Kwiet and Duininck, respectively.

Production isn't the end-all and be-all of the defencemen. A guy like Ebert is supposed to put up points. Guys like Bateman and Murphy are supposed to put up points, eventually. Posa has never been known as a points guy, but he's valuable (from a non-statistical POV) in other ways. You're not always going to get, or need, your veterans to put up 30-40 points a year to be successful. Sometimes, you need that quality guy on the ice who goes about his job efficiently, without having a need to put up points. That's Posa.

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12-05-2012, 03:13 PM
  #969
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See, for me, production means producing, which is points. Value to a team is everything else - his ice time, his versatility, and his locker room presence.

Raisy - You're comparing an incredible club with the one we have now. Posa, on those two teams, wouldn't be within the top four, or even five. That doesn't say much, though, given we had guys like Dale Mitchell and Scott Timmins who could have been fourth-line guys with us. For what it's worth, I'd take Posa over Kwiet and Duininck, respectively.

Production isn't the end-all and be-all of the defencemen. A guy like Ebert is supposed to put up points. Guys like Bateman and Murphy are supposed to put up points, eventually. Posa has never been known as a points guy, but he's valuable (from a non-statistical POV) in other ways. You're not always going to get, or need, your veterans to put up 30-40 points a year to be successful. Sometimes, you need that quality guy on the ice who goes about his job efficiently, without having a need to put up points. That's Posa.
I'm with you on that for sure. Kwiet was a pretty poor skater compared to Posa, and Posa is far more reliable than Duininck. Harry Young as a captain didn't put up points, but he fought and had a world class team to lead. Posa doesn't fight and we aren't winning, cue the whining about his abilities. Watch the way he sticks to guys like glue when they are rushing towards the net and how he keeps his stick in the passing lanes. He uses his skating and smarts to shut down opportunities all the time, which can be just as effective as physical intimidation. It doesn't matter how the puck gets cleared without giving up a scoring chance, only that it does. Points shmoints.

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12-05-2012, 03:32 PM
  #970
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I'm with you on that for sure. Kwiet was a pretty poor skater compared to Posa, and Posa is far more reliable than Duininck. Harry Young as a captain didn't put up points, but he fought and had a world class team to lead. Posa doesn't fight and we aren't winning, cue the whining about his abilities. Watch the way he sticks to guys like glue when they are rushing towards the net and how he keeps his stick in the passing lanes. He uses his skating and smarts to shut down opportunities all the time, which can be just as effective as physical intimidation. It doesn't matter how the puck gets cleared without giving up a scoring chance, only that it does. Points shmoints.
Kwiet played a year in the AHL and he's a regular in the ECHL. Do you think Posa is going to get run in the AHL and ECHL?

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12-05-2012, 04:01 PM
  #971
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Kwiet played a year in the AHL and he's a regular in the ECHL. Do you think Posa is going to get run in the AHL and ECHL?
He might, or he might not. If he doesn't, it still doesn't sway my opinion of which defenseman I would prefer. Kwiet had a good shot but was more of a power play specialist than anything else. You never saw him out there against top lines in a defensive role, and his minutes were carefully selected for sure. Don't get me wrong, choosing Posa over Kwiet was very close (Duininck wasn't) but if you're going to be honest Kwiet was a bit of a pylon in his own end. He had the size and shot to get a minor pro deal, good on him. So did Blake Parlett who you've slagged as useless in the past, so I don't know much of a talent indicator that is. Posa probably could play in the east coast and would have an opportunity, for chuckles take a look at some of the former OHL flotsam making a living in that league some time. He seems like the sort of kid who'd get on with his education rather than waste his education package in the pursuit of a dubious pro career.

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12-05-2012, 04:10 PM
  #972
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Kwiet played a year in the AHL and he's a regular in the ECHL. Do you think Posa is going to get run in the AHL and ECHL?
Actually last yr he was at the LA Kings prospect camp so for me not bad for an undrafted player
While he is not a star,in my mind not one of those players I was thinking of dealing,there are a few more I would deal before him
Must be a slow news time to spend so much effort on a solid but unspectacular player,character person who represents the team pretty well in the areas expected of a captain
There are alot more problems with this team thens whats being discussed
My comments are not directed at you just to clarify

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12-05-2012, 04:27 PM
  #973
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Actually last yr he was at the LA Kings prospect camp so for me not bad for an undrafted player
While he is not a star,in my mind not one of those players I was thinking of dealing,there are a few more I would deal before him
Must be a slow news time to spend so much effort on a solid but unspectacular player,character person who represents the team pretty well in the areas expected of a captain
There are alot more problems with this team thens whats being discussed
My comments are not directed at you just to clarify
I agree with this. There are problems with this team but I don't think these get solved with practice and maturing. I think this is why Rychel is under the microscope but some won't admit it. They will need to acquire another D before Sieloff leaves for WJ's. Sieloff and his 25+ mins a night will be very tough to replace on a soft D.

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12-05-2012, 04:42 PM
  #974
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I agree with this. There are problems with this team but I don't think these get solved with practice and maturing. I think this is why Rychel is under the microscope but some won't admit it. They will need to acquire another D before Sieloff leaves for WJ's. Sieloff and his 25+ mins a night will be very tough to replace on a soft D.
I get what u mean re Seiloff leaving and replacing his minutes though I dont think a defenceman is forthcoming,if anything a forward or 2 to help with the scoring
It may be lucky for Windsor that the teams above or even in the standings will be missing key players as well,Plymouth Noesen,Hartman and Rackell,Sarnia,Galchenyuk and Murphy,SSM,Sproul,Saginaw,Vince Trocheck,time will tell
Then after Xmas Windsor loses HoSang who is one of the few forwards producing
The last time the Spits relied on 16 year olds is when Hall and Ellis left for the -17 back 5 years ago

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12-05-2012, 04:49 PM
  #975
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Kwiet played a year in the AHL and he's a regular in the ECHL. Do you think Posa is going to get run in the AHL and ECHL?
If he doesn't, there's something wrong.

Legend, it's a slow news day, haha. Btwn the teddy bear debate on NOOF and now this, we need a deal or brawl to get the place going again.

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