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Lockout II - Moderated: Talk about your plenty, Talk about your ills...

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:03 AM
  #551
Riptide
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
The RS requirements are part of the CBA negotiations. If the top-3 markets wanted to, they could easily say 'hey guys, let's redefine RS based on % of league income so the largest teams pay the most into RS'

Could be achieved by sorting the franchises from largest % contribution to smallest, and then divide the league into tirtiles (T1 = franchises that make up the top 33.3% of HRR, T2 = franchises that make up the middle 33.3% of HRR, T3 = franchisest hat make up the bottom 33.3% of HRR). The teams that constitute T1 pay RS, the teams that constitute T3 benefit from RS.
I think you'd have more success getting teams to all put 50% of their HRR all into a pot, and then the players get paid from that pot. So Phoenix would pay 35m (and have a midpoint cap roster (so ~62m) - spending above that would mean additional money that Phoenix would have to put in), while Toronto would be spending 50% of their HRR - so 90/100m for their roster of 62m.

It would also be a 100% sure way to ensure that all teams are not unwillingly spending more than 50% of their HRR on player costs. Which is only the case now if a team makes more than ~100m in HRR.

Would the league go for something like this? No, probably not. Although when one takes a quick look at the math (at least for now), I'm not sure Toronto is paying that much more than they will be paying when they increase the RS%.

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12-05-2012, 10:09 AM
  #552
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Originally Posted by mikelvl View Post
Why do I automatically cringe now when I hear a proposal is coming? Bettman and Jacobs will throw in right into the trash at the boardroom table.
Me too; I was looking forward to see what happens today, then I hear "Proposal" and then I'm thinking "We're never going to have a season...".

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12-05-2012, 10:15 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Why should they have expected it to be impacted by the new CBA? In two lockouts last year, used so often as comparables, no one else's deals were affected detrimentally by their new CBA.
Because it says that it can be affected by a new CBA... In the previous CBA.

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12-05-2012, 10:16 AM
  #554
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Worth noting that the league and players association both requested that the Quebec Labor Board postponed hearings. That's pretty relevant.

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12-05-2012, 10:37 AM
  #555
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Bettman to adress media approximately 1 p.m. ET today. This does not sound too good I got a feeling the season is getting killed today.
This has been scheduled for a while so don't read too much into it. There is a BoG meeting scheduled for today (it might be postponed or it might go on, who knows?) and he normally does a presser after that meeting. This hasn't been scheduled because of the lockout as it would be taking place even if they had been playing hockey since October.

Now he might dash people's hopes today, but that is not why this presser has been scheduled.

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12-05-2012, 10:40 AM
  #556
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I think there was a deal worked out before this meeting yesterday. I think the Boston reporter had it right. This meeting yesterday and today is a show trying to save the players faces for the upcoming season so fans do not hold a grudge to the players. You can hate Bettman and Fehr (they don't care anyway, they get paid no matter what) but this way it makes it like the players have saved the NHL.
Neither Bettman nor Fehr are being paid during the lockout. In fact, Fehr has been going without any salary longer than Bettman if I remember correctly.

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12-05-2012, 11:05 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Worth noting that the league and players association both requested that the Quebec Labor Board postponed hearings. That's pretty relevant.
Very relevant! And hopefully a very positive sign!

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12-05-2012, 11:13 AM
  #558
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If Crosby is the player who makes the difference in this mess and gets the deal done, I'll never say a bad thing about him again.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:33 AM
  #559
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MOD NOTE:

Just a reminder that this is a business forum. Please keep the discussion to business aspects of the lockout. Non-business items should be posted in the NHL Lockout Discussion on the main NHL forum.

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12-05-2012, 11:34 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Worth noting that the league and players association both requested that the Quebec Labor Board postponed hearings. That's pretty relevant.
This hearing was related to the legality of the lockout, correct?

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12-05-2012, 11:55 AM
  #561
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http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-kypreos-says/

MacLean said that six weeks ago, he heard the NHLs position, that it is knock em down, drag em out until December 1st, and then at December 1st were getting a deal done.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...ing-break.html

According to a source with a good knowledge of the NHLs business workings, the league has a deal with its major sponsors that will pay it 100 percent of its money if the league plays a schedule of 61 or more games. If the schedule dips below 61 games, the league will receive only 75 percent of its sponsorship money. That percentage continues to decrease down to 50 percent if the league only plays a 41-game schedule.


So, as fans, we have to put up with a 3 month stare contest, until the NHL really starts to lose money, then it's all... "Let's make a deal?"

I say ___'em . I will be going to the games because I have prepaid for my STs, but the NHL is not getting one dime from me for anything else, and neither are their sponsors.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:59 AM
  #562
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So basically, opening night is Christmas Day?

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:06 PM
  #563
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So basically, opening night is Christmas Day?
Guessing it may be earlier.


Figure end of the week to get CBA particulars down, ratify over the weekend, then say camp could open 12/12, games start 12/19 or so.


If they "have" to squeeze in 60+ games, the more time they get the better. I think they might allow "practice" on 12/24-12/25, but not games this year, in keeping with traditional NHL holiday break.

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12-05-2012, 12:09 PM
  #564
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So the owners got serious because they want 100 percent sponsorship money?
Bettman pushes it as far as he can until the owners risk losing sponsorship money, and then owners push him aside.

Interesting.
If I'm the PA, I don't give up a penny in my next offer.

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12-05-2012, 12:15 PM
  #565
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Interesting.
If I'm the PA, I don't give up a penny in my next offer.
That would be a great way to ensure you don't get to play this season.

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12-05-2012, 12:15 PM
  #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
So the owners got serious because they want 100 percent sponsorship money?
Bettman pushes it as far as he can until the owners risk losing sponsorship money, and then owners push him aside.

Interesting.
If I'm the PA, I don't give up a penny in my next offer.
why? its less potential money for the players if it continues to drag on.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:17 PM
  #567
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That would be a great way to ensure you don't get to play this season.
Really?
It's obvious that the owners have pressure points too.

Why should the players give now, when they've been giving the entire time, now that the owners are facing pressure, too?

They pushed bettman out for a reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
why? its less potential money for the players if it continues to drag on.
It's less money if you offer more concessions too.

If I am the players, I let the owners make the next move.

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12-05-2012, 12:24 PM
  #568
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
It's less money if you offer more concessions too.

If I am the players, I let the owners make the next move.
And it's possible not offering concessions would lead to no money.

That's a gamble, really, and one I don't expect the players to take. I think they will offer some more concessions, get some in return, and take the sure thing season. I'm more of the conservative type, so I would do whatever I could to get the paychecks rolling in and get on the ice. While the owners are under pressure, the real possibility of no paychecks for a year is something I wouldn't even mess with as a player.

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12-05-2012, 12:33 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Really?
It's obvious that the owners have pressure points too.

Why should the players give now, when they've been giving the entire time, now that the owners are facing pressure, too?

They pushed bettman out for a reason.
There's a reason the PA issued a stipend. This hurts the players more than the owners and owners know it. Play stupid games and lose a season, and while neither side will be happy with what they lost, only one side is going to have their livelihood threatened.

And the "pushing out Bettman" thing is questionable, I think. He's in the next room, and it will be his say that matters from the owners side. He needs 2/3's against his recommendation, and if that existed, he would not be in charge right now. Would not shock me if this was his idea.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:36 PM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Really?
It's obvious that the owners have pressure points too.

Why should the players give now, when they've been giving the entire time, now that the owners are facing pressure, too?

They pushed bettman out for a reason.



It's less money if you offer more concessions too.

If I am the players, I let the owners make the next move.
Because if they don't give now, we are back to square one. A lost season hurts the owners less than the players. Just because the Bettman wants 100% sponsorship doesn't mean he's that vulnerable. He called the lockout to begin with.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:38 PM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Really?
It's obvious that the owners have pressure points too.

Why should the players give now, when they've been giving the entire time, now that the owners are facing pressure, too?

They pushed bettman out for a reason.



It's less money if you offer more concessions too.

If I am the players, I let the owners make the next move.
Good idea...let's never give in. That way the PA can say we never lost!!!

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:42 PM
  #572
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Give it a rest, boys.
The PA has done nothing but give. I don't see why now, when the owners actually are desperate enough to kick Bettman out of the room,. the PA should give more.

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12-05-2012, 12:43 PM
  #573
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Good idea...let's never give in. That way the PA can say we never lost!!!
Nah, the NHLPA lost last time. They ended up making more money than ever and were able to get the UFA age lowered with arbitration rights. C'mon the NHLPA has done nothing but give.

Quote:
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Give it a rest, boys.
The PA has done nothing but give. I don't see why now, when the owners actually are desperate enough to kick Bettman out of the room,. the PA should give more.
It is probably the owners that have given more, with the "make whole" concession. Everyone knew going into this CBA negotiation that the players were going to take a haircut on their share of HRR. It's ridiculous that it has taken this long to get to this point simply because Donald Fehr refused to negotiate from within the established framework of the CBA. A framework the owners were never going to give up.

All Fehr did was cost NHLPA members money in lost salary.

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:48 PM
  #574
LadyStanley
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PollakOnSharks 10:39am via web
One scenario RT @garylawless if deal gets done by weekend, big if, training camps could open wednesday and 56-game season would begin 12/20.

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12-05-2012, 12:56 PM
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Give it a rest, boys.
The PA has done nothing but give. I don't see why now, when the owners actually are desperate enough to kick Bettman out of the room,. the PA should give more.
Bettman suggested it cause he knew Fehr was the impedment to getting a deal done. It was a very smart move by Bettman.

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