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Lockout II - Moderated: Talk about your plenty, Talk about your ills...

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:57 PM
  #576
Freudian
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Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...-kypreos-says/

MacLean said that six weeks ago, he heard the NHL’s position, that “it is knock ‘em down, drag ‘em out until December 1st, and then at December 1st we’re getting a deal done.”

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...ing-break.html

According to a source with a good knowledge of the NHL’s business workings, the league has a deal with its major sponsors that will pay it 100 percent of its money if the league plays a schedule of 61 or more games. If the schedule dips below 61 games, the league will receive only 75 percent of its sponsorship money. That percentage continues to decrease down to 50 percent if the league only plays a 41-game schedule.


So, as fans, we have to put up with a 3 month stare contest, until the NHL really starts to lose money, then it's all... "Let's make a deal?"

I say ___'em . I will be going to the games because I have prepaid for my STs, but the NHL is not getting one dime from me for anything else, and neither are their sponsors
.
NHLPA didn't start to negotiate until mid November when they finally tabled a proposal that wasn't absurd. It's not like NHL can get a deal done without NHLPA.

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12-05-2012, 12:59 PM
  #577
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@cotsonika: Leafs' Larry Tanenbaum: "We're going to continue to talk up until we get a deal." Asked if more clear where sides stand: "Absolutely."

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12-05-2012, 01:01 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Bettman suggested it cause he knew Fehr was the impedment to getting a deal done. It was a very smart move by Bettman.
If the Season gets saved it's because both the players and the owners were getting desperate. A great many of them were part of the previous lockout, and they became desperate not to let another Season go down drain. Bettman's idea of an owners - players only meeting was just the opportunity in which a sense of that feeling of desperation could get expressed, from both sides, I'm suspecting. But let's see.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 12-05-2012 at 01:07 PM. Reason: minor typo
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12-05-2012, 01:02 PM
  #579
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It's a good time for the PA to start applying some pressure to keep/expand their contracting rights if the NHL sponsorship deals being based on the # of games is true. Just when the NHL is trying to weasel there way into a 61+ game schedule, hit them over the head with your demands.

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12-05-2012, 01:03 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
@cotsonika: Leafs' Larry Tanenbaum: "We're going to continue to talk up until we get a deal." Asked if more clear where sides stand: "Absolutely."
So the questions come about, was it just simply getting Fehr/Bettman out of the room?

The fact that Bettman is saying positive things and is encouraging about the process going on, makes me wonder if the players gave in mostly or partly on the make whole amount.

Quotes like this and Bettman's comment make me wonder what the players view is, and what the details will be. It also makes me wonder what Fehr's future holds-wondering if he is relieved of duties all is said and done.

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12-05-2012, 01:05 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
If the Season gets saved it's because both the players and the owners were getting desperate. A great many of them were part of the previous lockout, and they became desperate not to let another Season go down drain. Bettman's idea of an owners - players only meeting was just the opportunity in which sense of that feeling of desperation could get expressed, from both sides, I'm suspecting. But let's see.
I agree-if a deal ends up coming out of this, Bettman is going to look like a hero for suggesting it-nevermind the details, its about the optics, and the optics would make Gary look very favorable and, as was said-it's will be made to look like Fehr was the impediment.

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12-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbcwpg View Post
So, as fans, we have to put up with a 3 month stare contest, until the NHL really starts to lose money, then it's all... "Let's make a deal?"

I say ___'em . I will be going to the games because I have prepaid for my STs, but the NHL is not getting one dime from me for anything else, and neither are their sponsors.
You could look at it this way: It was 3 months in which they chose not to take the fans paying $, but if the Season starts then fans will finally have their opportunity to give the NHL their money again... If all the fans still wish to do that.

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12-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
NHLPA didn't start to negotiate until mid November when they finally tabled a proposal that wasn't absurd. It's not like NHL can get a deal done without NHLPA.
This was the owners' lockout.

It wasn't up to the PA to offer concessions. It amazing that people think the PA should have started negotiations with massive concessions.

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12-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #584
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I believe these talks are all pretty useless. I'm not sure where but I read that 8 teams can veto the collective agreement. If that's the case, the NHL has a right to veto since they own the Coyotes. So that leaves 7 teams which probably will be the richer ones who may veto it.

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12-05-2012, 01:06 PM
  #585
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wow, optimism again

too bad there still won't be a season

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12-05-2012, 01:07 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
I agree-if a deal ends up coming out of this, Bettman is going to look like a hero for suggesting it-nevermind the details, its about the optics, and the optics would make Gary look very favorable and, as was said-it's will be made to look like Fehr was the impediment.
Right.
Don Fehr's BROTHER stays in the room while the owner's kicked Bettman to the curb, and FEHR was the impediment?

Holy Moly.

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12-05-2012, 01:09 PM
  #587
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Nah, the NHLPA lost last time. They ended up making more money than ever and were able to get the UFA age lowered with arbitration rights. C'mon the NHLPA has done nothing but give.



It is probably the owners that have given more, with the "make whole" concession. Everyone knew going into this CBA negotiation that the players were going to take a haircut on their share of HRR. It's ridiculous that it has taken this long to get to this point simply because Donald Fehr refused to negotiate from within the established framework of the CBA. A framework the owners were never going to give up.

All Fehr did was cost NHLPA members money in lost salary.
That's a fantasy.
The owners haven't given up a single thing.

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12-05-2012, 01:10 PM
  #588
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Right.
Don Fehr's BROTHER stays in the room while the owner's kicked Bettman to the curb, and FEHR was the impediment?

Holy Moly.
Bettman suggested it- (again optics )-regardless of "facts", it will be spun to look like Bettman's the hero.

Not saying that's the way it is, or I agree with it, that's the way the NHL will spin it IMO.

Fehr's Brother (and Daly) have actually been seen in the past to be quite helpful to the process, and they'll probably be the ones that people should look at, but in the general media/grand scheme, it will be trumpted as "Bettman's Win"-I know, never let facts get in the way of a good story

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12-05-2012, 01:10 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by wpgJetsfan View Post
I believe these talks are all pretty useless. I'm not sure where but I read that 8 teams can veto the collective agreement. If that's the case, the NHL has a right to veto since they own the Coyotes. So that leaves 7 teams which probably will be the richer ones who may veto it.
You imply Bettman votes for the Coyotes, because he owns them. I would imply that the owners collectively own the Coyotes. We do not know if using the Coyotes Voting rights would require simple majority, the Commissioner+8, or what you seem to be saying Commissioner +7. I would imagine the teams would cry foul in any situation where 7 owners could strong arm them. 8 is bad enough but I doubt Bettman would try and pull a stunt with only 7 owners.

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12-05-2012, 01:13 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
I agree-if a deal ends up coming out of this, Bettman is going to look like a hero for suggesting it-nevermind the details, its about the optics, and the optics would make Gary look very favorable and, as was said-it's will be made to look like Fehr was the impediment.

I'll reserve judgment until I see what the deal actually looks like. If the players don't end up giving up everything, I think Fehr will have done his job-- and very well, I might add.

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12-05-2012, 01:18 PM
  #591
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I'll reserve judgment until I see what the deal actually looks like. If the players don't end up giving up everything, I think Fehr will have done his job-- and very well, I might add.
And that might be one of the "things" that gets glossed over and not paid attention to-I'll be very interested to hear what both sides say-though with the media touting a seeming mostly "owners" comment on progress, I do hope the players haven't given up everything either.

Also, the fact these will have to be voted on by respective NHL and PA bodies-I could see the players voting yea on it, but will there be enough owners to vote yea? I think that's the big question.

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12-05-2012, 01:19 PM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
That's a fantasy.
The owners haven't given up a single thing.
Bob, you're being facetious here.

There are other things that are bargained besides share of HRR and contract rights. There is a laundry list of items the NHLPA asked for and the NHL agreed to give them in return for a lower share of HRR and some contract right restrictions. Michael Russo listed them on his blog.

Whether you believe these things are a fair and equitable return for what the NHLPA is being asked to give up is of no consequence. They are still concessions the NHL has offered.

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12-05-2012, 01:22 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Tinalera View Post
Bettman suggested it- (again optics )-regardless of "facts", it will be spun to look like Bettman's the hero.

Not saying that's the way it is, or I agree with it, that's the way the NHL will spin it IMO.

Fehr's Brother (and Daly) have actually been seen in the past to be quite helpful to the process, and they'll probably be the ones that people should look at, but in the general media/grand scheme, it will be trumpted as "Bettman's Win"-I know, never let facts get in the way of a good story
Ah... So the people can't see the facts right in front of their eyes?

Nobody is going trumpet this as Bettman's victory except Bettman's PR guy.

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12-05-2012, 01:24 PM
  #594
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That's a fantasy.
The owners haven't given up a single thing.
Relative to what?

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12-05-2012, 01:26 PM
  #595
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Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I'll reserve judgment until I see what the deal actually looks like. If the players don't end up giving up everything, I think Fehr will have done his job-- and very well, I might add.
High standards for success.

Fehr has cost the players hundreds of millions through being obstinate. The deal that the players will get here was always available without a single paycheck lost. The contracting 'concessions' were always up for grabs. It was obvious to most observers.

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12-05-2012, 01:30 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
High standards for success.

Fehr has cost the players hundreds of millions through being obstinate. The deal that the players will get here was always available without a single paycheck lost. The contracting 'concessions' were always up for grabs. It was obvious to most observers.
Yup, Donald Fehr should be fired, Gang'em style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
This was the owners' lockout.

It wasn't up to the PA to offer concessions. It amazing that people think the PA should have started negotiations with massive concessions.
Now this IS Fantasyland. This lockout and all lockouts in professional sports have been brought to you by none other than Donald Fehr.

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12-05-2012, 01:33 PM
  #597
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I just got an e-mail invite as a STH to come skate at jobing.com arena on Dec. 15. Up until now, there has been no ice. No season = no ice.

So unless there is going to be ice there for the ice capades or disney on ice, something is afoot. There will be ice on Dec. 15.

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12-05-2012, 01:37 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
High standards for success.

Fehr has cost the players hundreds of millions through being obstinate. The deal that the players will get here was always available without a single paycheck lost. The contracting 'concessions' were always up for grabs. It was obvious to most observers.
And the hundreds of millions Bettman has cost the owners through short sighted CBA's and lockouts somehow make him the winner in all this?

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12-05-2012, 01:38 PM
  #599
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Relative to what?
From a much broader perspective, the players have it pretty good. They make substantial money, guaranteed contracts, travel expenses paid for, access to the best facilities available and the best doctors available whenever they need it, and probably countless other luxuries. They probably even get a weekly stipend on top of their large salaries.

So what if they give up some concessions? In the end, they may end up with fewer contractual rights, and a bit less money, but considering their current work conditions and compensation, it's likely not going to affect them on any level.

And yes, I'll probably get the "the owners should stop being greedy," bit, but it's going to be 50/50. I dont think you can blame the owners for being greedy if they want the revenues split halfway down the middle, despite how you think revenues are secretly being divided.

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12-05-2012, 01:40 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by M A K A V E L I View Post
It's a good time for the PA to start applying some pressure to keep/expand their contracting rights if the NHL sponsorship deals being based on the # of games is true. Just when the NHL is trying to weasel there way into a 61+ game schedule, hit them over the head with your demands.
I don't understand the logic in this. Isn't this just as much a pressure point for the PA?
Aren't sponsorship dollars part of HRR? I don't think the make whole is going to cover even close to any of that money as it will be focused on other revenue/growth deficiencies. Either way it will chew through those make whole dollar.

Some of the pro PA posters would blow their own foot off if it meant the owners had to also. Or perhaps they'd like to see the players blow their own foot off if the owners had to while he sits on the sidelines cheering down with the man!

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