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Could a CFL all star team play in the NFL?

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Old
12-03-2012, 03:03 PM
  #76
ACC1224
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A CFL team would have zero chance against an NFL regardless of which rules they use.

A CFL team would have little chance against any top NCAA team regardless of which rules they use.

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12-03-2012, 03:55 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Hammettf2b View Post
Forgive my ignorance but i know nothing about the CFL. this is a question for those who keep saying that if they played with CFL rules, that they would have a chance and or beat an NFL team. Which rules are so if favor of the CFL players to make that satement? The way i see it is no matter what rules they will play under, the NFL players are far more superior players than the CFL players. im pretty sure if the NFL players got a good grasp of the rules they would do just fine playing a CFL all star team, and when i say just fine, i mean man handle.
I read a recent interview of an NFL defence player who recently made the switch to CFL and he mentioned that he was surprised how challenging playing D in the CFL was because there is more space to cover and you are running at full speed when you make the tackle. The NFL, with the smaller field is easier to manage zone D. He subscribed to the idea that smaller faster players make better CFL players because it's a different game.

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12-03-2012, 04:21 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Hammettf2b View Post
Forgive my ignorance but i know nothing about the CFL. this is a question for those who keep saying that if they played with CFL rules, that they would have a chance and or beat an NFL team. Which rules are so if favor of the CFL players to make that satement? The way i see it is no matter what rules they will play under, the NFL players are far more superior players than the CFL players. im pretty sure if the NFL players got a good grasp of the rules they would do just fine playing a CFL all star team, and when i say just fine, i mean man handle.
The rules favour smaller faster players. Because of this the elite players in the CFL typically only miss the NFL due to size issues (ex Weston Dressler etc.). So the talent would be there, and the size would favour the CFL, that is why if it was an all-star team (not regular team, but all-star) and they played CFL rules they wold have a chance. However if it was a regular team the skill differential would probably be too much

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12-03-2012, 04:41 PM
  #79
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Other than the application of the rules, CFL rules wouldn't give a CFL team any real advantage. For this reason, if this game were to be played, I bet the NFL team would start slow, before pulling away by 40-plus.

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12-03-2012, 04:59 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Other than the application of the rules, CFL rules wouldn't give a CFL team any real advantage. For this reason, if this game were to be played, I bet the NFL team would start slow, before pulling away by 40-plus.
Size makes a big difference too because of the rule differences. When the CFL had teams in the US basically all but Baltimore (whose GM would eventually bring the Grey Cup to Montreal) tried to have big NFL sized linemen. It didn't work out that well

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12-03-2012, 05:07 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
A CFL team would have zero chance against an NFL regardless of which rules they use.

A CFL team would have little chance against any top NCAA team regardless of which rules they use.
A CFL team would beat an NCAA team purely based on Size difference

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12-03-2012, 07:13 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
A CFL team would beat an NCAA team purely based on Size difference
What size difference?

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12-04-2012, 10:05 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Avro Arrow View Post
Well it's like this... Even the GREATEST team to play in the NCAA in the last 20 years would get more destroyed by a CFL team than a CFL team would be destroyed by an NFL team. I'll tell you why and then you might understand why someone thought you were trying to belittle the CFL because really, the question of an NCAA team vs a CFL team is beyond absurd.

Now, let's look at the NCAA. There are 111 teams of 70 players each. That makes 7,770 NCAA football players. Of that, only 112 players get drafted each year into the NFL. They don't automatically play, they're just claimed and therefore cannot play on any other NFL team.

Now, this next part is impossible but just to give you more than the best possible scenario for your question, we'll assume that the CFL uses all 48 draft picks on NCAA players and drafts nobody from the CIS. So now, you have a total of 160 players that both the CFL and NFL believe are POSSIBLY capable of playing pro ball. That is an average of less than 2 players per NCAA team.

The other 7,610 players which obviously make up the bulk of all NCAA teams aren't even good enough to play in the CFL. Some may be good enough for the AFL (Arena league) but I don't have exact figures for that so we'll ignore it. Now, take the best team in the NCAA, we'll say that perhaps 4 players on that team are good enough for pro ball and 66 players are not. Do you really think that a team with 4 quality players and 66 "fluff" players could possibly touch a team made completely of professionals? You're really not comparing apples to apples here. Some say the same thing about CFL vs. NFL and there is value in that but at least the teams are both made of seasoned professionals.

An NCAA team is mostly guys playing for fun and enough prestige to get laid. A CFL team is a professional football team made up of CIS and NCAA superstars that couldn't make it to the NFL for a myriad of reasons. The NCAA couldn't even be compared to the AHL because AHL players are professionals. The NCAA would be more comparable to the OHL, QMJHL, WHL, etc. In those cases, even a KHL team would slaughter them.

I think that the difference between the NFL and CFL would be more akin to the difference between the NCAA and CIS. One is clearly superior (based on population and money) but they're in the same universe. College vs. Pro is not in the same universe. Take the WORST CFL team, put them in NCAA Division-1 and they'll have a perfect record, break every single team record in NCAA history by possibly having ZERO points scored on them and win the NCAA championship in every single year that they're there with no exceptions. The same thing could not be said about the worst NFL team playing in the CFL or the worst NCAA team playing in the CIS. That's the difference and that's why the question has no merit whatsoever.

I'm not putting you down or anything, I know that the question was honest and not meant to incite. I post this to simply explain, without emotion or prejudice, why some would think that you were insulting the CFL. See, you really were insulting the CFL and you showed the typical Toronto attitude of how low Torontonians think the CFL is but you didn't mean to and there was no malice behind it. The reaction you received was a result of CFL fans tired of hearing the "same old crap" from Torontonians about how the CFL is a crap league and the quality is far better in the NFL. In defence of that belief that Toronto seems to have, it's true. The NFL is clearly made up of superior players but here's the thing:

When you have a football game where the offences and defences are evenly matched, it's entertaining and great because awesome plays are possible and the outcome is in doubt. Why do you think that the NCAA is so wildly popular in the USA? Because it's a great game played by teams that are generally evenly matched and the outcome is always in doubt (and because people bet on them like crazy). THAT is the key to a good game, not necessarily having the best of the best players, but having players whose level of quality is evenly matched. I hope that this has helped explain things not only to you, but to anyone else who is not knowledgeable enough about the game of football for this to be immediately obvious.

In answer to the question that was posed, I think that the worst NFL teams could lose to the best CFL teams but I could be wrong. Is the talent difference between the best and worst NFL teams greater than the worst NFL team and best CFL team? I ask this because of the old "On any given Sunday" addage. Also, NFL success isn't always about pure talent. The Chiefs are clearly a talented team but they lack the intangibles needed for success like good coaching and management, team chemistry, a winning attitude and confidence. If a team doesn't believe they can win, or know how to win, even a clearly inferior team can beat them. We've seen huge upsets occur in the NFL that were a result of the better team taking the worse team too lightly and forgetting that they are playing professionals. Could an NFL team take a CFL team too lightly and get beat? I don't know but I believe it's possible. The QB doesn't take the game seriously and throws 9 interceptions, for instance. Believe it or not, a CFL DB can intercept a ball thrown by an NFL QB. A CFL LB can pick up a fumble from an NFL RB. Too many crazy things can happen between professionals for anything to be absolute. In 100 games would an NFL team have a perfect record against a CFL team? I think the answer to that is an emphatic "no". Would the CFL team have double-digit wins? Probably not, but hey, remember that even the Harlem Globetrotters don't have a perfect record against the Washington Generals.

Rock on!

- Watched CFL since 1979, watched NFL since 1987, played football for 3 years in high school and had a football coach for a stepfather.
That was a very good breakdown. However I would like to point out that not all Torontonians feel that way about the CFL & NFL.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tape to tape View Post
I read a recent interview of an NFL defence player who recently made the switch to CFL and he mentioned that he was surprised how challenging playing D in the CFL was because there is more space to cover and you are running at full speed when you make the tackle. The NFL, with the smaller field is easier to manage zone D. He subscribed to the idea that smaller faster players make better CFL players because it's a different game.
That's pretty much always the case. Every NFL player that comes from the NFL to the CFL is surprised by the talent level and the difficulty of the game.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
A CFL team would beat an NCAA team purely based on Size difference
He's probably referring to the CFL having Men playing well the NCAA has Boys playing.


Last edited by Neely2005: 12-04-2012 at 10:10 AM.
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12-04-2012, 05:21 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
What size difference?
Agree. I took a quick glance at a few CFL rosters vs. NCAA rosters. On an average they are very similar in height and weights overall. Only difference is the amount of experience the CFL players have.

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12-05-2012, 01:00 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
Agree. I took a quick glance at a few CFL rosters vs. NCAA rosters. On an average they are very similar in height and weights overall. Only difference is the amount of experience the CFL players have.
There seems to be a misconception by some that NCAA Players are boys not College men.

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12-05-2012, 03:37 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammettf2b View Post
Forgive my ignorance but i know nothing about the CFL. this is a question for those who keep saying that if they played with CFL rules, that they would have a chance and or beat an NFL team. Which rules are so if favor of the CFL players to make that satement? The way i see it is no matter what rules they will play under, the NFL players are far more superior players than the CFL players. im pretty sure if the NFL players got a good grasp of the rules they would do just fine playing a CFL all star team, and when i say just fine, i mean man handle.
2 Big reasons are when the CFL plays Offence

The Waggle, The CFL has unlimited backfield motion, so receivers get a running start if they time it right. Good Coaching could change this for an NFL team

A change that no coach could change, is in the typical CFL defensive set, a Linebacker is on a receiver. Basically a DB will play that spot, and the NFL team would have to adapt a player to play that position, if they were to play a CFL style defense. They could completely try something different, but then who would they practice against?

Thats an issue for the NFL when playing CFL rules, They would have no team to practice against, in this One-off situation, they would have to play exhibition games against CIS teams, and no offence to the CIS teams, the gamespeed is just not the same.

On Defence, I think they would get exploited by the zone read play that every CFL team uses, (shotgun formation option pass/run)

As well as a different red zone style with the bigger end zone.

With good coaching, prepreation, and practice against comparable oppenents and playing a typical CFL game, with more suited players in certain positions (less power more outside running game for example) the NFL team would easily win, But if a NFL team tried to play a NFL style game, they would get shut down.

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12-05-2012, 03:53 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom ServoMST3K View Post
On Defence, I think they would get exploited by the zone read play that every CFL team uses, (shotgun formation option pass/run)
There's a reason NFL teams don't run the read option other than a gadget play here and there. It's because NFL defenses are disciplined enough to stay in their lanes and stop it.

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12-05-2012, 04:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
There's a reason NFL teams don't run the read option other than a gadget play here and there. It's because NFL defenses are disciplined enough to stay in their lanes and stop it.
well maybe im wrong, but I tend to think its more successful in the CFL due to less runs, and that makes DE's more intent on downhill play. In the NFL, with more running plays, the DE's are used to playing the run commonly.

Again, This NFL team will have no one to practice against, and that will be the biggest problem facing them

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12-06-2012, 01:22 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Diatidialga View Post
A CFL team would beat an NCAA team purely based on Size difference
Say what?

Of course a lot of the monsters in the NFL have packed on more muscle once they get there, but college Football is full of guys who are already monstrous. This is college ball not high school Football.

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12-07-2012, 03:12 AM
  #90
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Size difference is negligible. In fact, Alabama had a slightly larger average height and weight on their roster compared to the Toronto Argonauts. The NCAA vs. CFL questions was rather ridiculous, I must admit, and I probably did deserve to get put in my place

The NHL-AHL analogy seems to be fitting.

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12-07-2012, 05:03 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Just out of curiosity, I'd watch an NFL team play a CFL team or all-star team, using all CFL rules.
on a CFL feild? id take the CFL team.. NFL defenses gas quite easily on their own feild imagine on a CFL feild chasing around small fast CFLers with a 25 second clock.

of course theres a chance the small fast CFLers may get taken off on stretchers after getting lit up.

NFL- power and size
CFL - speed and more speed

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12-07-2012, 07:15 PM
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on a CFL feild? id take the CFL team.. NFL defenses gas quite easily on their own feild imagine on a CFL feild chasing around small fast CFLers with a 25 second clock.

of course theres a chance the small fast CFLers may get taken off on stretchers after getting lit up.

NFL- power and size
CFL - speed and more speed
This is a common misconception. NFL has power, size AND speed.

People seem to forget that the CFL only gets players who are unable to make it in the NFL. For the most talented, the CFL is the second choice.

It is a mistake to think that just because an NFL athlete is >250 pounds, that they cannot run. That they are >250 pounds and CAN run is why they were able to make it to the upper echelon of football.

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12-07-2012, 09:11 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
This is a common misconception. NFL has power, size AND speed.

People seem to forget that the CFL only gets players who are unable to make it in the NFL. For the most talented, the CFL is the second choice.

It is a mistake to think that just because an NFL athlete is >250 pounds, that they cannot run. That they are >250 pounds and CAN run is why they were able to make it to the upper echelon of football.
Yup. You pretty much need to be a genetic freak of nature to star in a defensive front 7 in the NFL. Relatively normal human beings can still occupy these positions in the CFL for the most part.

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12-07-2012, 10:11 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
What size difference?
CFL players are men. NCAA players are 18-21 year olds. Regardless of their size, the CFL players are more muscular and more skilled than college athletes.

NFL players would have a hard time playing a great CFL team on a CFL field with their rules. The teams play the game with speed and use the field to their advantage.

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12-07-2012, 10:56 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
A CFL team would have little chance against any top NCAA team regardless of which rules they use.
Wow, you really don't know much about football do you? I don't think I've read a more ignorant piece of trash on this entire site. Since the CFL drafts from the NCAA, that means they are at worst, equivalent to a top NCAA team. Keep smoking the moon rocks, your post, while completely invalid was quite entertaining...lol

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12-08-2012, 07:05 AM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCD View Post
This is a common misconception. NFL has power, size AND speed.

People seem to forget that the CFL only gets players who are unable to make it in the NFL. For the most talented, the CFL is the second choice.

It is a mistake to think that just because an NFL athlete is >250 pounds, that they cannot run. That they are >250 pounds and CAN run is why they were able to make it to the upper echelon of football.
I won't disagree that they do have speed but it's not a top priority when drafting.(minus a few positions)

If you break it down by positions CFL is faster.
As an example.
NFL MLB generally 250 plus
CFL MLB 220ish..generally a former Strong Safety in College. Couldn't quite make NFL since they are an inbetweener. Too big for safety and too small for LB at NFL level.

DE DT. Same thing really. You wouldn't see a 300lb DLer in CFL, DE's are generally 250 ish as compared to NFLs 275 or so.
I won't argue with you about Talent. Cuz it is a different league and there are some huge challenges for the CFL.. Money, being in Canada, having to play Canadians over Americans.

But it's silly to suggest (blanket statement, not directed squarely at you sir) that because someone gets cut from an NFL roster they suck at football.

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