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Carons (lack of) production in Providence

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Old
12-04-2012, 03:42 PM
  #51
LSCII
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Originally Posted by Dellstrom View Post
He's proven himself on the NHL level. He was very productive last year and I'd say he was our best player for a 3-5 game stretch... He'll be back when the season starts, either this or next year. He has a great work ethic, he's above average defensively, and his offensive game is pretty good as well. He's basically the definition of an ideal 3rd liner for this team.

Whether or not Chiarelli drafted him with that in mind, I think the games he played in the NHL matter a lot more than those in the AHL...
I must have been sick that shift, but when exactly has this ever happened?

The only thing he's shown on the NHL level is that his play has been inconsistent to this point. He's been handed a position multiple times and he actually lost his spot last year to Pouliot, FFS. That is pretty far from proving it on the NHL level, IMO.

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12-04-2012, 07:33 PM
  #52
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From the one game I seen(granted it's a small sample size), he just isn't being used correctly down in Providence. He was on the 3rd line with Cunningham and Florek, they didn't accomplish very much, not a great deal of skill on that line, didn't seem to mix well. Florek has a fair bit of work to do himself. Given his NHL experience Caron should be a go-to guy for Cassidy, and play on the first line with skilled players. He has a hard time creating offense on his own. Doesn't help that Providence as a whole has a hard time creating offense, that no doubt affects his numbers as well.

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12-04-2012, 07:35 PM
  #53
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Bourque leads the farm team in scoring this year and led the AHL in scoring last year and has always put up more than a point/per game numbers in the AHL. I would have him playing wing on the big club over Caron ANY day.

Never been impressed by Caron. As others have said, he is a fringe NHL'er at best. Give me a guy with scoring potential. We have Bergeron, Kelly, Marchand, and others who play a great 3 zone game already.

That, and I like the "Bourque" name!

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12-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #54
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Caron is showing is he needs to reinvent himself. Caron doesn’t seem to have top six potential but does kill penalties at a good level. Maybe he isn’t the next Glen Murray or Mike Knuble, but the next Daniel Pallie who has a similar career at their respective ages.

Again, this reiterates my point that prospects are suspects until proven otherwise. Admittedly, I thought Caron would make the starting roster this year, but it was foolish making space for players like Knight or Spooner. The Bruins in my opinion have been one of the best teams in developing young talent and fitting them in a winning formula. High competition for jobs brings out the best in players, if they fail they aren’t ready anyway, always best to have depth rather than acquire it.

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12-04-2012, 08:26 PM
  #55
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a drunkards tangent...

I think it is fair to criticize Chia Pet for his draft decisions. Granted, 3 or 4 years isn't a ton of time to judge the majority of prospects. However, I think we can see, overall, how passive that PC has been over the years. Think about Hamil and Caron, at the time, they looked (comparably) as 'safe' picks. Hell, I think they were both touted as that from many an analyst at the time.

Maybe I'm different in draft philosophy than many, but with high end picks (and the value associated with them), you've got to chase the high-end talent and risk a bit; granted, the trades aren't always there... but we've missed out on some decent talent that is further along by going with PC's safe route when we should have, imo, traded up.

Caron can still be something, when he's been on Bergy's wing, he's looked good ('who hasn't, right?') - but I'm unsure if he can consistently maintain that output at this point in his career. But he has some time, he's not worthless, but I suspect this raises another question about development... are the right people in Providence? That's not something I can comment on as I haven't been to a Providence game in years and can only look at the results in standings, statistics and prospects.

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12-04-2012, 08:35 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flannelman View Post
I think it is fair to criticize Chia Pet for his draft decisions. Granted, 3 or 4 years isn't a ton of time to judge the majority of prospects. However, I think we can see, overall, how passive that PC has been over the years. Think about Hamil and Caron, at the time, they looked (comparably) as 'safe' picks. Hell, I think they were both touted as that from many an analyst at the time.

Maybe I'm different in draft philosophy than many, but with high end picks (and the value associated with them), you've got to chase the high-end talent and risk a bit; granted, the trades aren't always there... but we've missed out on some decent talent that is further along by going with PC's safe route when we should have, imo, traded up.
I think you're mostly right (Joe Colborne). But I also think that his draft strategy has changed over the years. Look at the Malcolm Subban pick, or even a smaller defenseman like Grzelcyk in this year's draft.

It's not so much risk/reward anymore... It's drafting players who they deem have upside and have the ATTITUDE that the team is looking for. The Bruins have an identity now and their young prospect pool is beginning to reflect it. Chiarelli's history is a little spotty - but I think he's getting better every season.


Last edited by Mr. Make-Believe: 12-04-2012 at 09:44 PM.
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12-04-2012, 08:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
I think you're mostly right (Joe Colborne). But I also think that his draft strategy has changed over the years. Look at the PK Subban pick, or even a smaller defenseman like Grzelcyk in this year's draft.

It's not so much risk/reward anymore... It's drafting players who they deem have upside and have the ATTITUDE that the team is looking for. The Bruins have an identity now and their young prospect pool is beginning to reflect it. Chiarelli's history is a little spotty - but I think he's getting better every season.
PK Subban is a Bruin now??

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12-04-2012, 09:14 PM
  #58
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Caron had a two week stretch last year when it looked like he had arrived.


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12-04-2012, 09:19 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Cid View Post
Bourque leads the farm team in scoring this year and led the AHL in scoring last year and has always put up more than a point/per game numbers in the AHL. I would have him playing wing on the big club over Caron ANY day.

Never been impressed by Caron. As others have said, he is a fringe NHL'er at best. Give me a guy with scoring potential. We have Bergeron, Kelly, Marchand, and others who play a great 3 zone game already.

That, and I like the "Bourque" name!
You'd give the nod for contributing to the bruins to a 26 year old who's had plenty of chances to make an NHL squad over a 22 year old with less attempts? Ok then

Mind you I think either could contribute, but your logic is flawed

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12-04-2012, 09:27 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
my thoughts exactly

I'm a fan of Tommy Cross but I'm not going pretend like this 2 points in 3 games and plus 4 overall is an indication of how the remainder of the season will be either


Both times I watched Caron play this year he looked like the best forward on the team, so points or no points he didn't underwhelm me. Im not worried about it at all.
That's encouraging to know. I like Caron and I hope he makes it but he has some work to do.

Look at recent drafts and the value that normally comes at the 25th spot in the first round.

2012 - Jordan Schmatlz
2011 - Stuart Percy
2010 - Quinton Howden
2009 - Jordan Caron
2008 - Greg Nemisz
2007 - Patrick White
2006 - Patrick Berglund
2005 - Andrew Cogliano
2004 - Rob Schremp
2003 - Andrew Stewart
2002 - Cam Ward
2001 - Alexander Perezhogin
2000 - Steve Ott

I'd be ok with him turning out to be a bottom 6 plugger ( a 15 goal/30 point guy ) with size since value wise, the 25th spot in the first round has more misses than hits.

What is the real shame is that 2009 was the draft the Bruins tried to move up because they wanted Chris Kreider badly. They nearly had him too...but after failing to swing a trade, they saw the Rangers pick up a couple of spots before where we were and we settled for Caron. Kreider would have been a great pickup for us.

sidenote to KnightofBoston: I'm starting to think ( and hope ) Cross is turning the corner in his development. If you go to any more games, let us know how he looks... I'd love to hear a scouting report.

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12-04-2012, 09:46 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Pie O My View Post
PK Subban is a Bruin now??
Woops! Gross!

Now edited for my stomach-churning mental error.

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12-04-2012, 09:47 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
That's encouraging to know. I like Caron and I hope he makes it but he has some work to do.

Look at recent drafts and the value that normally comes at the 25th spot in the first round.

2012 - Jordan Schmatlz
2011 - Stuart Percy
2010 - Quinton Howden
2009 - Jordan Caron
2008 - Greg Nemisz
2007 - Patrick White
2006 - Patrick Berglund
2005 - Andrew Cogliano
2004 - Rob Schremp
2003 - Andrew Stewart
2002 - Cam Ward
2001 - Alexander Perezhogin
2000 - Steve Ott

I'd be ok with him turning out to be a bottom 6 plugger ( a 15 goal/30 point guy ) with size since value wise, the 25th spot in the first round has more misses than hits.

What is the real shame is that 2009 was the draft the Bruins tried to move up because they wanted Chris Kreider badly. They nearly had him too...but after failing to swing a trade, they saw the Rangers pick up a couple of spots before where we were and we settled for Caron. Kreider would have been a great pickup for us.

sidenote to KnightofBoston: I'm starting to think ( and hope ) Cross is turning the corner in his development. If you go to any more games, let us know how he looks... I'd love to hear a scouting report.
No problem

The thing I like most about Cross is his head, I think if anything what will allow him to eventually crack out roster is his maturity and determination. Slow steady progress, but I could see him replacing Ference at some point

Shame he won't have Andy's pugilistic skills though

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12-04-2012, 09:51 PM
  #63
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He is playing uninspired hockey from what I have seen. It looks like he is just going through the motions waiting for the NHL to start again. Not what you want to see; he should be lighting it up...

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12-04-2012, 09:53 PM
  #64
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...

As for Caron, I'm not going to go crazy and say how he represents futility in our system... But I AM disappointed with his progress thus far.

He looked like an NHLer to me. Not necessarily top-6, but not unnecessarily either.

Caron's lack of production in Providence does raise concern in me about HIM. And I don't think it's offside to discuss it. He's a couple of years older and quite a bit smarter than many of the kids on that club. I don't expect incredible numbers, but I do believe that he should be better than his current stats indicate.

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12-05-2012, 01:47 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Caron is nothing more than a fringe NHL player so far, IMO. He hasn't done much despite being handed multiple chances to secure a spot. It's hard to feel all that good about him, since he seems to play to his competition, instead of dominating against what should be lesser players in the AHL right now.
Yep, I agree. Bring Bourque up instead.


Last edited by BklyNBruiN: 12-05-2012 at 01:59 AM.
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12-05-2012, 06:34 AM
  #66
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All I can tell you is what I've seen. And from what I've seen, he looks solid. He's not a highlight reel soloist type of player, more the cog-in-the-machine type. A Chris Kelly type rather than a Tyler Seguin.

As ODAAT said, people see "first round" and assume he's a star, and if not, he's a bust. He's neither, IMHO.
Yep

Other than some here, I`ve never heard Bruin brass or those "in the know" who have stated they fully expect Caron to be a PPG kind of player. His role, as we have seen in his very young career, is that of a responsible forward who`s out there to play a relatively safe game, protect his own end of the ice, contribute from time to time and, for the most part, he`s done that.

If he were a 2nd rounder, a 3rd rounder, we`d be impressed with his development to this stage. There`s the other side of things too, the guy who lights up the AHL or puts up impressive stats (which never tell the story) then when they have their shot, they fizzle, see Jody Gage for one of hundreds of these.

Not sure what Caron`s ceiling will be, at best, maybe a 40-50pt yearly player? Hardly a headline act, but it`s been clear from day 1, not at all what he was drafted for.

Chia states here, "not a pure shooter"

Didn`t hear in this interview he was anticipating a 40 goal man

http://video.bruins.nhl.com/videocen...nsole?id=44421

He was picked 25th, not a draft spot that I usually expect dynamic young talents too often to be sitting in. Watched and noticed him in the Q upon his visits to Halifax, his ability to put pts up was not even close to what impressed me with the kid, it was his 3 zone adherence as a teenager.

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12-05-2012, 06:35 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
No problem

The thing I like most about Cross is his head, I think if anything what will allow him to eventually crack out roster is his maturity and determination. Slow steady progress, but I could see him replacing Ference at some point

Shame he won't have Andy's pugilistic skills though
Not if he goes back to school first. I hear he is taking class' at brown

Oh it never gets old!

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12-05-2012, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Make-Believe View Post
...

As for Caron, I'm not going to go crazy and say how he represents futility in our system... But I AM disappointed with his progress thus far.

He looked like an NHLer to me. Not necessarily top-6, but not unnecessarily either.

Caron's lack of production in Providence does raise concern in me about HIM. And I don't think it's offside to discuss it. He's a couple of years older and quite a bit smarter than many of the kids on that club. I don't expect incredible numbers, but I do believe that he should be better than his current stats indicate.
He likely should have better numbers but I wouldn't use his time with Providence this year as a measuring stick. If the lockout ends let's see how he performs with the big club[provided he makes it].Inconsistency is quite common with young players but I am not sure if the B's will give Caron too many more chances if he can't play with more consistency.I am not sure if Caron can play regularly on the top 3 lines and be effective.

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12-05-2012, 05:52 PM
  #69
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Especially when Chiarelli is on record saying he will be happy if he scores at the same clip Pouliot did...Would anyone put money on Caron going 16-16-32 the next season we play? Going off his Providence numbers you would be nuts to. Hopefully Kelly and Pervs will wear off on him...

I was surprised they traded Pouliot to make a space for Caron.

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12-05-2012, 05:57 PM
  #70
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I was surprised they traded Pouliot to make a space for Caron.
Pouliot's spot might go to Spooner given that he is clearly out playing Caron at this point.

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12-05-2012, 06:04 PM
  #71
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I was surprised they traded Pouliot to make a space for Caron.
In my opinion Caron is the much better player. Pouliot had poor hockey sense,bad balance on his skates and played like a chicken with his head cut off. Caron is not near as flashy as Pouliot but he does have good hockey sense that can compensate for his so -so skill level.

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12-05-2012, 06:25 PM
  #72
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Pouliot's spot might go to Spooner given that he is clearly out playing Caron at this point.
Spooner is a good player with a lot of potential but he's got some developing/growing to do. Time in the AHL will do him good.

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12-05-2012, 06:29 PM
  #73
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Not if he goes back to school first. I hear he is taking class' at brown

Oh it never gets old!
he's doomed for sure

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12-05-2012, 09:33 PM
  #74
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Many nights, in my view, it's easy to forget Caron is out there.

Spooner has the tools, but he's not close to ripe yet.

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12-06-2012, 12:58 AM
  #75
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Many nights, in my view, it's easy to forget Caron is out there.

Spooner has the tools, but he's not close to ripe yet.
Yeah I sort of like to compare Spooner to Marchand who benefited from his AHL time.

Brad had skill too and just got mean and became a real grinder. Make Spooner get nice and mean and then let him play for the Big Bad B's.

Just want to see the best player in Europe given the type of chance Caron gets (getting told to get apartments and all) a 1 way deal is the least CS deserves hes too good to play in Providence.

We need one more high end goal scorer like Seguin.

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