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ATD 2013 - Planning

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Old
12-04-2012, 11:17 AM
  #76
vecens24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
My guess is that you weren't getting multiple PMs at any time of day or night demanding that you sign on immediately and give your opinion immediately on whether the megatrade du jour is kosher, because otherwise the draft was getting held up.
Not as many as you were, but I did get quite a few.

People just have to be understanding. If you're going to make a trade in the middle of the night and while you're on the clock, someone most likely isn't going to be able to sign on in time to approve the trade. That's just the way it is. People are going to have to be more understanding than they were last time around.

*****************************

My thought process on this is there are going to be people who complain either way. It's just going to happen. If there are small limits, people will complain. If there are no limits, people will complain. If there is no trading, people will complain. It's just the way it is. And I think there are very few people who don't want trades. So I think the answer is just unlimited trading, with people knowing that if you trade right before your selection is up, the deal might not be passed through for like 6 hours (or if it's an unfair deal, then like 12 hours). Because it's too hard to restrict people trading within proximity to their selection (and not fair, sometimes you need to move up to get into a run on players), there is just no point in any restrictions. We'll continue to have the same problems, and people that make the problematic deals just need to be more understanding, and the people around them need to deal with the fact that hey, maybe the draft will be held up an extra six hours which in the grand scheme of things really isn't that big a period of time (.25 of a day when we invest, what 150 days into this thing?)


Last edited by vecens24: 12-04-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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12-04-2012, 12:49 PM
  #77
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
maybe the draft will be held up an extra six hours which in the grand scheme of things really isn't that big a period of time (.25 of a day when we invest, what 150 days into this thing?)


so true

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12-05-2012, 03:35 PM
  #78
BenchBrawl
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Shouldn't we start the sign-ups and fix a date before we make a referandum?

Wouldn't hurt to start the sign-ups early to see what kind of group we're going to have.


Last edited by BenchBrawl: 12-05-2012 at 03:41 PM.
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12-05-2012, 05:45 PM
  #79
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I don't really see the point in starting signups before the new year.

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12-05-2012, 05:47 PM
  #80
BenchBrawl
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I don't really see the point in starting signups before the new year.
So that participating GMs vote in a referandum on trade rules.

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12-05-2012, 07:42 PM
  #81
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I don't really see the point in starting signups before the new year.
With TDMM on this one. No reason.

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12-05-2012, 07:48 PM
  #82
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With TDMM on this one. No reason.

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12-05-2012, 08:20 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
With TDMM on this one. No reason.
There are quite a few reasons... but no good ones I can think of

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12-05-2012, 09:17 PM
  #84
Hawkey Town 18
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I'd like to hear some more opinions on the 1hr penalty for trading on the clock. I think this rule either needs to be thrown out, or altered so the penalty occurs only after a certain amount of time goes by. What's the point in penalizing someone if they get their trade done and make their pick within a "timely" manner?

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12-05-2012, 09:22 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
I'd like to hear some more opinions on the 1hr penalty for trading on the clock. I think this rule either needs to be thrown out, or altered so the penalty occurs only after a certain amount of time goes by. What's the point in penalizing someone if they get their trade done and make their pick within a "timely" manner?
The point was to speed up the draft. It was put in place to prevent people from using their clock to just wait for trade offers.

If we want a fast draft, it makes sense. If we don't care about speed, then it doesn't make sense.

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12-05-2012, 10:02 PM
  #86
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
The point was to speed up the draft. It was put in place to prevent people from using their clock to just wait for trade offers.

If we want a fast draft, it makes sense. If we don't care about speed, then it doesn't make sense.
So if someone trades on the clock without slowing up the draft, why should they get punished? What if they make their trade within the first 10 minutes of their clock time? Obviously that's taking it to the extreme, but there has to be some time period that can be deemed acceptable.

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12-05-2012, 10:28 PM
  #87
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The 1 hour penalty for trading on the clock didn't seem to do anything to actually stop people from trading on the clock. I would be fine with getting rid of it.

I never particularly had a problem with people trading on the clock, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Hawkey Town 18 View Post
So if someone trades on the clock without slowing up the draft, why should they get punished? What if they make their trade within the first 10 minutes of their clock time? Obviously that's taking it to the extreme, but there has to be some time period that can be deemed acceptable.
To add to this, there are some times when trading on the clock can make the draft go faster. If I don't know who I'm going to pick and someone else offers me a trade, it makes the draft go faster if I take it.

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12-05-2012, 10:41 PM
  #88
Hawkey Town 18
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The 1 hour penalty for trading on the clock didn't seem to do anything to actually stop people from trading on the clock. I would be fine with getting rid of it. I never particularly had a problem with people trading on the clock, anyway.
Eliminating the penalty in its entirety would be my #1 choice.


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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
To add to this, there are some times when trading on the clock can make the draft go faster. If I don't know who I'm going to pick and someone else offers me a trade, it makes the draft go faster if I take it.
Good point

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:31 AM
  #89
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
The 1 hour penalty for trading on the clock didn't seem to do anything to actually stop people from trading on the clock. I would be fine with getting rid of it.
I agree. Any rules I've suggested in the past were just to appease those who did have a problem with it.

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12-06-2012, 02:33 AM
  #90
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I agree. Any rules I've suggested in the past were just to appease those who did have a problem with it.
Who do you think you are, Winston Churchill?

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12-08-2012, 12:03 PM
  #91
BenchBrawl
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How many teams are we aiming for?

32 or 40?

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12-08-2012, 01:30 PM
  #92
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How many teams are we aiming for?

32 or 40?
Let's aim for 32 first and if more people want to join, we'll think about expanding past 32 teams. I definitely don't want to push to get more teams, because it seems like when you have to push to get teams, all you get are more weaker teams.

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12-08-2012, 02:31 PM
  #93
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Let's aim for 32 first and if more people want to join, we'll think about expanding past 32 teams. I definitely don't want to push to get more teams, because it seems like when you have to push to get teams, all you get are more weaker teams.
Not to mention annoying long waits between picks.

Even if we get past 32 , we should probably encourage co-GMing.

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12-09-2012, 11:21 AM
  #94
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If you think long waits are annoying, then let's vote on four hour clicks. I'd you don't want that, my recommendation is that you suck it up and let people use the clock they are given.

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12-09-2012, 12:54 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
If you think long waits are annoying, then let's vote on four hour clicks. I'd you don't want that, my recommendation is that you suck it up and let people use the clock they are given.
Allright allright jesus christ someone woke up on the wrong side of bed today.

I never said I wanted shorter clocks or that I wanted people not to use their clocks , but the 40 team draft was pretty slow.

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12-09-2012, 01:04 PM
  #96
seventieslord
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It's funny how I come off as crusty when in my opinion I am just responding to those who are crusty over others using the clocks they are given.

Is your concern with how people use their clocks, or is it just too many people with too many clocks?

There are other options too. We could look at a cumulative clock of a certain number of hours per team. To keep it simple we could just round down to the nearest hour. So a pick made within an hour doesn't reduce your clock. How much of a cumulative clock each team get could be decided on.

The other option is very punitive results for missing your clock. Like 2 hours each time.

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12-09-2012, 01:50 PM
  #97
BenchBrawl
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
It's funny how I come off as crusty when in my opinion I am just responding to those who are crusty over others using the clocks they are given.

Is your concern with how people use their clocks, or is it just too many people with too many clocks?
Too many people with too many clocks.I'm talking about a 40 teams draft.Last year's rhythm was pretty good.

Quote:
There are other options too. We could look at a cumulative clock of a certain number of hours per team. To keep it simple we could just round down to the nearest hour. So a pick made within an hour doesn't reduce your clock. How much of a cumulative clock each team get could be decided on.

The other option is very punitive results for missing your clock. Like 2 hours each time.
I prefer the second option.

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12-09-2012, 05:45 PM
  #98
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It's funny how I come off as crusty when in my opinion I am just responding to those who are crusty over others using the clocks they are given.

Is your concern with how people use their clocks, or is it just too many people with too many clocks?

There are other options too. We could look at a cumulative clock of a certain number of hours per team. To keep it simple we could just round down to the nearest hour. So a pick made within an hour doesn't reduce your clock. How much of a cumulative clock each team get could be decided on.

The other option is very punitive results for missing your clock. Like 2 hours each time.
Last time we deducted two hours for missing a 12 hour clock, right? I hope we keep that. It really is annoying to have someone miss an entire 12 hour clock. And since we only use 12 hours for the first couple of rounds, it's incredibly easy to send a list.

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12-09-2012, 06:51 PM
  #99
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I am perfectly content with the current clock distribution, I think the flow of ATD 2012 was fantastic.

I'd be all for keeping a 2-hour penalty for missing a 12-hour clock, as well as eliminating a penalty for trading on the clock because to reiterate what was said earlier. In almost all cases, it is quicker to trade the pick.

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12-09-2012, 07:43 PM
  #100
Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
It's funny how I come off as crusty when in my opinion I am just responding to those who are crusty over others using the clocks they are given.

Is your concern with how people use their clocks, or is it just too many people with too many clocks?

There are other options too. We could look at a cumulative clock of a certain number of hours per team. To keep it simple we could just round down to the nearest hour. So a pick made within an hour doesn't reduce your clock. How much of a cumulative clock each team get could be decided on.

The other option is very punitive results for missing your clock. Like 2 hours each time.
Agree with this. If you're giving someone a clock, then you shouldn't be mad if they use 100% of it every time it's their pick. If you don't want that to happen, change the rules in some way.

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