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Jaden Schwartz for Brandon Gormley... again

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Old
12-05-2012, 10:52 PM
  #26
Violent By Design
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Originally Posted by Bluesnatic27 View Post
I do like Morrow, is there anyone else that seems interesting other than Schwartz and Tarasenko? I'm not completely against against trading Schwartz, but I would like to know if Pitts. would want anyone else. Maybe something along the lines of D'Agostini+?
No interest in dealing our top D prospects for D'Agostini or Stewart.

Just for fun, not sure if other Pens fans would be on board with this...


Morrow
Bennett (2010 1st round pick putting up numbers in the AHL this season)
2014 1st (or 2013 depending on whether or not it's a lottery this year)


Tarasenko

or


Morrow
2013 2nd


Schwartz


Last edited by Violent By Design: 12-06-2012 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Brainfart
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Old
12-05-2012, 11:02 PM
  #27
Vladys Gumption
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
No interest in dealing our top D prospects for D'Agostini or Stewart.

Just for fun, not sure if other Pens fans would be on board with this...


Morrow
Bennett (2009 1st round pick putting up numbers in the AHL this season)
2014 1st (or 2013 depending on whether or not it's a lottery this year)


Tarasenko

or


Morrow
2013 2nd


Schwartz
No to the Tarasenko deal. As for the second one, I'm not really sure. I haven't seen enough of Morrow to get a good feel for him.

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Old
12-05-2012, 11:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Would STL fans have any interest in Pittsburgh's defense prospects?

Something around Despres or Morrow for Schwartz?
Definitely interested in Simon Després. From what I've gathered, he has exactly the kind of physicality and frame the Blues are looking for in a defensive partner for Pietro. Seems he's also a good skater for his size, and according to HF reports has the upside to be a 25+ minute all-situation defensemen in the NHL. Me likey. Also, both teams could make this trade work without really effecting their current NHL rosters(as both players were set to be AHL/emergency call-ups this season anyways). Perhaps Pittsburgh adds a mid-late round draft pick, but I honestly don't think a straight up swap would be out of the question.

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12-05-2012, 11:25 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
No to the Tarasenko deal. As for the second one, I'm not really sure. I haven't seen enough of Morrow to get a good feel for him.
Although I think that 2nd trade is somewhat fair...I don't think the Blues would have much interest in Morrow. He's very similar to Cole, but even further behind in development. I think he'll end up being a very solid NHLer someday, but the Blues need someone who can contribute now.

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12-05-2012, 11:27 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
Although I think that 2nd trade is somewhat fair...I don't think the Blues would have much interest in Morrow. He's very similar to Cole, but even further behind in development. I think he'll end up being a very solid NHLer someday, but the Blues need someone who can contribute now.
Yea I think we'd be looking for a more nhl ready player, ala Despres. That said, I'm not really all that interested in trading Schwartz.

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12-05-2012, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
Definitely interested in Simon Després. From what I've gathered, he has exactly the kind of physicality and frame the Blues are looking for in a defensive partner for Pietro. Seems he's also a good skater for his size, and according to HF reports has the upside to be a 25+ minute all-situation defensemen in the NHL. Me likey. Also, both teams could make this trade work without really effecting their current NHL rosters(as both players were set to be AHL/emergency call-ups this season anyways). Perhaps Pittsburgh adds a mid-late round draft pick, but I honestly don't think a straight up swap would be out of the question.
I would hesitate to pull the trigger on the Despres deal depending on if there is any season to salvage this year. Many of our other prospects are 1-2 years away from seeing NHL time. We need him to help bridge the gap assuming there is a season. I would be open to dealing Despres for Schwartz at the draft, however.

I'm not so sure why you value Despres over Morrow. It wouldn't have been a surprise if Morrow had stuck on the Pens after the draft, he didn't look out of place at all. I just don't think management wanted to rush him. I believe Morrow's lowest projection is what Despres will likely turn out to be, a solid top four mobile two way defenseman. Morrow has a much higher ceiling IMO, top pairing defenseman written all over him.

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12-06-2012, 12:07 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
I would hesitate to pull the trigger on the Despres deal depending on if there is any season to salvage this year. Many of our other prospects are 1-2 years away from seeing NHL time. We need him to help bridge the gap assuming there is a season. I would be open to dealing Despres for Schwartz at the draft, however.

I'm not so sure why you value Despres over Morrow. It wouldn't have been a surprise if Morrow had stuck on the Pens after the draft, he didn't look out of place at all. I just don't think management wanted to rush him. I believe Morrow's lowest projection is what Despres will likely turn out to be, a solid top four mobile two way defenseman. Morrow has a much higher ceiling IMO, top pairing defenseman written all over him.
Most of us Blues fans haven't seen anything on Morrow though. Not knocking him, it's just he hasn't played much at the pro level. A lot of us have seen Despres and have been impressed. We don't necessarily need an offensive stud. We just need someone who is a solid player who can play some shut down d. Doesn't even need a lot of offense. He just needs to be able to move the puck.

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12-06-2012, 12:22 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
I would hesitate to pull the trigger on the Despres deal depending on if there is any season to salvage this year. Many of our other prospects are 1-2 years away from seeing NHL time. We need him to help bridge the gap assuming there is a season. I would be open to dealing Despres for Schwartz at the draft, however.

I'm not so sure why you value Despres over Morrow. It wouldn't have been a surprise if Morrow had stuck on the Pens after the draft, he didn't look out of place at all. I just don't think management wanted to rush him. I believe Morrow's lowest projection is what Despres will likely turn out to be, a solid top four mobile two way defenseman. Morrow has a much higher ceiling IMO, top pairing defenseman written all over him.
The fact that you would hesitate to pull the trigger on Despres for Schwartz straight up, but would be willing to do Morrow + 2nd speaks volumes here. I'm sure Morrow probably does have a higher ceiling(at least offensively), but for the Blues to trade a highly touted prospect like Schwartz they would need someone who could no doubt contribute immediately. We both know out of those two players Despres is more than likely that guy. Morrow could definitely be Letang version 2.0, but I think he's going to need more time to develop. And again, the description of Despres just seems to be a perfect fit of what the Blues are looking for. We need a guy who is big, can skate, and log major defensive minutes. The offense part really doesn't matter. That's what we have Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk for. Anyways a Schwartz for Despres swap IMO sounds like a pretty sweet deal for both sides.

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12-06-2012, 12:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Most of us Blues fans haven't seen anything on Morrow though. Not knocking him, it's just he hasn't played much at the pro level. A lot of us have seen Despres and have been impressed. We don't necessarily need an offensive stud. We just need someone who is a solid player who can play some shut down d. Doesn't even need a lot of offense. He just needs to be able to move the puck.
The hole you want filled is much less than what Despres would bring to your blueline. A deal based on Despres and Schwartz is fair value, but it seems there would be easier ways for you guys to fill that need than to trade Schwartz.

I'm very high on Schwartz (maybe more so than some STL fans) so I was sort of taken by surprise when Despres' name came up over Morrow's.

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12-06-2012, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by h22prelude93 View Post
The fact that you would hesitate to pull the trigger on Despres for Schwartz straight up, but would be willing to do Morrow + 2nd speaks volumes here. I'm sure Morrow probably does have a higher ceiling(at least offensively), but for the Blues to trade a highly touted prospect like Schwartz they would need someone who could no doubt contribute immediately. We both know out of those two players Despres is more than likely that guy. Morrow could definitely be Letang version 2.0, but I think he's going to need more time to develop. And again, the description of Despres just seems to be a perfect fit of what the Blues are looking for. We need a guy who is big, can skate, and log major defensive minutes. The offense part really doesn't matter. That's what we have Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk for. Anyways a Schwartz for Despres swap IMO sounds like a pretty sweet deal for both sides.
Well we (like the Blues) are a team looking to contend now, there is no doubt in my mind Morrow will be the better defenseman possibly as early as next season. We just can't afford to move Despres with such uncertainty regarding the CBA right now. If this deal were to be done this season I would rather move Morrow over Despres (success now > shinier toys later). If the season gets cancelled I would be on board for a Despres for Schwartz deal, but trading Despres creates a bigger hole than it fills if we salvage any season at all. This trade seems best fit for the draft.

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12-06-2012, 12:43 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
The hole you want filled is much less than what Despres would bring to your blueline. A deal based on Despres and Schwartz is fair value, but it seems there would be easier ways for you guys to fill that need than to trade Schwartz.

I'm very high on Schwartz (maybe more so than some STL fans) so I was sort of taken by surprise when Despres' name came up over Morrow's.
I think we were a lot more hesitant to the idea of dealing Jaden is currently in play has a large part to do with the rise of Dmitri Jaskin in our prospect rankings. Jaskin is starting to look like a 4th high level winger prospect for the Blues. And most Blues fans seem to be of the mindset of trading from a position of strength to fill a position of weakness. With Tarasenko already coming over whenever we start playing again, and our glut of NHL wingers already here, Schwartz becomes the target that makes the most sense to deal: He's ready to go now, and he already has more market value then the other two potential options, enough to actually find the guy that could be the answer to our "Long Term Partner for Petro" goal without doing anything to hurt the group we are putting on the ice right now.

It would open up a slight hole in "long term replacement for McDonald on the Wing", but I personally feel that's a problem that doesn't become anything for a few years.

It's also clear to me that if Phoenix wouldn't be interested in the Gormley deal, the more I look into it, the more Despers would become the next logical target in terms of prospect for prospect trades. While the teams short term goals are too close to make a "prospect for proven player" trade, our needs in prospects, short and long, line up perfectly.

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12-06-2012, 12:48 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
The hole you want filled is much less than what Despres would bring to your blueline. A deal based on Despres and Schwartz is fair value, but it seems there would be easier ways for you guys to fill that need than to trade Schwartz.

I'm very high on Schwartz (maybe more so than some STL fans) so I was sort of taken by surprise when Despres' name came up over Morrow's.
I'm extremely high on Schwartz too, and I'm not really looking for the Blues to move him as he offers a lot of high end playmaking ability, which we need. But for the right player I would consider moving him. Despres is the kind of player we would be looking for.

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12-06-2012, 12:58 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Well we (like the Blues) are a team looking to contend now, there is no doubt in my mind Morrow will be the better defenseman possibly as early as next season. We just can't afford to move Despres with such uncertainty regarding the CBA right now. If this deal were to be done this season I would rather move Morrow over Despres (success now > shinier toys later). If the season gets cancelled I would be on board for a Despres for Schwartz deal, but trading Despres creates a bigger hole than it fills if we salvage any season at all. This trade seems best fit for the draft.
That's more then fair and an understandable position, and not something I think anyone can argue against. Then I'll probably call it a day, though I'll keep this offer in mind should the worst come to worst. Personally, I'd prefer to get a closer chance to look at Despres in a 7 game series, but that's just me

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12-06-2012, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Violent By Design View Post
Well we (like the Blues) are a team looking to contend now, there is no doubt in my mind Morrow will be the better defenseman possibly as early as next season. We just can't afford to move Despres with such uncertainty regarding the CBA right now. If this deal were to be done this season I would rather move Morrow over Despres (success now > shinier toys later). If the season gets cancelled I would be on board for a Despres for Schwartz deal, but trading Despres creates a bigger hole than it fills if we salvage any season at all. This trade seems best fit for the draft.
That's cool. I would most likely still be down for this trade to happen come draft day. That would also give both teams more time to evaluate what they currently have. BTW you guys really have quite the amazing group of defensive prospects right now. No doubt your team wouldn't be "hurting" too much if they were to make this deal.

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12-06-2012, 02:18 AM
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If we could do a one-for-one move dealing Schwartz for Despres, I would be thrilled.

Watched Despres a lot when keeping tabs on the SJ Sea Dogs and love his play. I'd prefer him over Cole as of this season. Think he is the ideal partner for Pietrangelo.


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12-06-2012, 03:15 AM
  #41
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I'd sadly do it from the Blues POV as I love Jaden Schwartz.

Gormley would fill a big need
Don't the Blues need legit top 6 forwards more then defense? You can't just bank that every prospect will pan out so unless all of them do it, hard to trade one of the guys might

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12-06-2012, 06:23 AM
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Don't the Blues need legit top 6 forwards more then defense? You can't just bank that every prospect will pan out so unless all of them do it, hard to trade one of the guys might
Perron-Backes-Oshie
McDonald-Berglund-Stewart
Tarasenko-Steen-D'Agostini
Sobotka-Nichol-Langenbrunner
Reaves

With guys like Grachev, Porter, McRae, Peluso, and Cracknell who can fill in.

We have Rattie and Jaskin who is provin to be a high end powerfoward prospects too. Plus Tarasenko. We can afford to move Schwartz and still have plenty of top six players.

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12-06-2012, 06:32 AM
  #43
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Don't the Blues need legit top 6 forwards more then defense? You can't just bank that every prospect will pan out so unless all of them do it, hard to trade one of the guys might
The Blues have 8 top 6 caliber forwards on the roster right now, and that isn't including D'Agostini(more of a top 9 than a top 6 despite being capable of notching 20 goals a year), Tarasenko, Schwartz or any of our other prospects.

The Blues absolutely have the depth to move a top 6 caliber winger for a top 4 D man to pair up with Pietrangelo. That said; I don't make a deal from the prospects. I move D'Agostini, Steen, McDonald or Stewart before I deal Tarasenko or Schwartz. We're going to need some cost effective contracts to be able to lock up Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk this summer.

Having said that; the Blues are in "win now" mode. We aren't dealing anything for a prospect D man. We'd give the spot to Cole before going that route, he's earned that level of loyalty from us. If we make a deal, it will be for a proven D man who can make an immediate impact.

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12-06-2012, 07:18 AM
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Maybe work something out for Schwartz + ? for Alzner?
No way. It'd be a huge step back for the Caps and we're not rebuilding. None of our leaders have turned 30 and we have many promising prospects, so that's not our type of deal. I thought young and not very established D for young and not very established W would be a good one..

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12-06-2012, 08:51 AM
  #45
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The Blues have 8 top 6 caliber forwards on the roster right now, and that isn't including D'Agostini(more of a top 9 than a top 6 despite being capable of notching 20 goals a year), Tarasenko, Schwartz or any of our other prospects.

The Blues absolutely have the depth to move a top 6 caliber winger for a top 4 D man to pair up with Pietrangelo. That said; I don't make a deal from the prospects. I move D'Agostini, Steen, McDonald or Stewart before I deal Tarasenko or Schwartz. We're going to need some cost effective contracts to be able to lock up Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk this summer.

Having said that; the Blues are in "win now" mode. We aren't dealing anything for a prospect D man. We'd give the spot to Cole before going that route, he's earned that level of loyalty from us. If we make a deal, it will be for a proven D man who can make an immediate impact.
I'm going to give a bit of a rebuttal to your stance, and say I have no interest at all in trading McDonald, our best offensive weapon, or Steen who is one fo the best and smartest two way players in the entire NHL. Losing either would be a huge loss for our immediate run at the Stanley Cup. D'Agostini's value isn't remotely high enough to get us someone who could be a true, long term answer to the Petro partner conundrum. And nobody the return for Stewart isn't going to be close to the value I'd be willing to trade him at.

And I have confidence in Despres being able to make an immediate impact, and trading for a defensemen to fill that role who'se extablished means we are going to have to give up either a piee more valuable then Schwartz or multiple pieces, but either way we hurt our current NHL roster a lot more then we would if we pulled the trigger on this trade. And why look for a short term fix when a potential solution to the problem for a long time is right here for a player who has no role for us right now?

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12-06-2012, 09:23 AM
  #46
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No way. It'd be a huge step back for the Caps and we're not rebuilding. None of our leaders have turned 30 and we have many promising prospects, so that's not our type of deal. I thought young and not very established D for young and not very established W would be a good one..
Totally understandable, just saying that Alzner is the guy we would want from Wash. If I was them I wouldnt trade Alzner either

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12-06-2012, 10:15 AM
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Don't the Blues need legit top 6 forwards more then defense? You can't just bank that every prospect will pan out so unless all of them do it, hard to trade one of the guys might
Nope. Anothe center? Sure. But not wingers. We don't really even desperately "need" anything. Just would like to shore up a few places.

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12-06-2012, 12:12 PM
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If we could do a one-for-one move dealing Schwartz for Despres, I would be thrilled.
I'd be okay with this too if the Pens did this trade, but I'm not sure if it would happen anytime soon since they are currently limited in legit NHL defensemen at the moment.

After trading away Michalek and getting no real replacements back, they're left with Orpik, Letang, Martin and Niskanen as their top 4. The bottom pairing would be a rotation of borderline guys like Engelland, Lovejoy, Strait and Bortuzzo, or guys with little to no NHL experience in Despres, Dumoulin, and Morrow. Engelland and Despres would most likely fill out that 3rd pairing, but the part I'm uneasy about is that looking past the top 6, there's really not much quality depth.

One thing that the Penguins defense knows how to do, is to get injured and having Despres around gives the team a bit more current depth and confidence.

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