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12'-13' Draft Thread: Drouin & Monahan are LR's pick, what are yours?

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Old
12-05-2012, 12:27 PM
  #726
theIceWookie
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I probably am. Defensive defensemen are just like goalies -- they're hard to project. I'd much rather just grab a forward. I'd feel better, anyways. Lol.
See after taking Schenn with the 5th pick, I don't think I'd take a defensive dman in teh top 5 again. Jones isn't that though. He's got a fantastic puck moving game.

I'll give you they are hard to project. But busts happen all the time at every position. It's just part of the game. I just see Jones as a potential franchise dman. How foolish would a team feel if they passed on that for a guy like Drouin? Pretty foolish I think.

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12-05-2012, 12:30 PM
  #727
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I probably am. Defensive defensemen are just like goalies -- they're hard to project. I'd much rather just grab a forward. I'd feel better, anyways. Lol.
Are you calling Jones a "defensive defensemen"?

Dudes on pace for like 50+ pts this season.

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12-05-2012, 01:02 PM
  #728
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You can't instantly judge if a guy has "it". You have to watch them on and off the puck, and see their overall impact on a shift/game.

Joe Thornton wasn't the fastest guy, neither was Sundin, but they have/had "it" because of the impact they made on games.

As you've once said, "it's not all flash". Barkov has flash, leadership ability, size, strength, and boatloads of potential.

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12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
  #729
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Are you calling Jones a "defensive defensemen"?

Dudes on pace for like 50+ pts this season.
In the W. His strength is his defensive game. At least, that's what I keep hearing. And I'm wary of guys lauded mainly for their defensive game in junior. Especially when they're 6'4.

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:38 PM
  #730
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In the W. His strength is his defensive game. At least, that's what I keep hearing. And I'm wary of guys lauded mainly for their defensive game in junior. Especially when they're 6'4.
No his strength is his versatility and 2 way game (both offensively and defensively).

The fact you said " Thats what I keep hearing" shows you really havent watched the guy and are just going on reports.

The guy is 6'4, with great wheels, great hockeysense and good offensive skills. No idea where you get the "defensive defensemen" nonsense seeing hes got 23pts in 27 games (5th overall) and tied for 2nd in goals by a defensemen and the only rookie defensemen in the top 15 of D scoring.

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Old
12-05-2012, 01:46 PM
  #731
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No his strength is his versatility and 2 way game (both offensively and defensively).

The fact you said " Thats what I keep hearing" shows you really havent watched the guy and are just going on reports.

The guy is 6'4, with great wheels, great hockeysense and good offensive skills. No idea where you get the "defensive defensemen" nonsense seeing hes got 23pts in 27 games (5th overall) and tied for 2nd in goals by a defensemen and the only rookie defensemen in the top 15 of D scoring.
Of course I haven't watched him -- who's opinion would you trust more, mine, or someone who gets paid to make these evaluations for a living? I mean, do you just self-diagnose every time you're sick? He's a rookie by virtue of spending his rookie years in the USHL, so that doesn't really have the meaning you're pushing it to have.

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12-05-2012, 01:53 PM
  #732
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Of course I haven't watched him -- who's opinion would you trust more, mine, or someone who gets paid to make these evaluations for a living? I mean, do you just self-diagnose every time you're sick? He's a rookie by virtue of spending his rookie years in the USHL, so that doesn't really have the meaning you're pushing it to have.
You called him a defensive defensemen so I would have hoped you had at least watched the guy play before making such a claim and a bad one at that. Find me a scouting service that has outlined him as a defensive defensemen because unless that definition of the term has changed I really dont understand this. The guy is good at BOTH ends of the ice but in no way is he a Schenn or Alzner type.

Since when does a defensive defensemen have that many goals (2nd in the league for D?) and be 5th in overall scoring???????

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12-05-2012, 01:58 PM
  #733
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You called him a defensive defensemen so I would have hoped you had at least watched the guy play before making such a claim and a bad one at that. Find me a scouting service that has outlined him as a defensive defensemen because unless that definition of the term has changed I really dont understand this. The guy is good at BOTH ends of the ice but in no way is he a Schenn or Alzner type.

Since when does a defensive defensemen have that many goals (2nd in the league for D?) and be 5th in overall scoring???????
I dunno, but I think you need more question marks.

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12-05-2012, 02:05 PM
  #734
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Not to mention Jones' team is loaded with defencemen, and good offensive ones at that so it's not like he's playing in every offensive situation that Winterhawks have as he doesn't need to.

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12-05-2012, 03:04 PM
  #735
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jason dicksinson is a nice player. i like him alot. watched him with brian huddle last night. both of us like his game, despite his insane weakness

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12-05-2012, 03:04 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by KlattNazty View Post
jason dicksinson is a nice player. i like him alot. watched him with brian huddle last night. both of us like his game, despite his insane weakness
Got a hat trick the game I saw him live

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12-05-2012, 03:12 PM
  #737
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Barkov is just 17 year old. Show me the evidence about Sundins clutchness at 17 year old or younger? I would say that Barkov has one of the best shots in the draft and could develope into elite range once he get stronger. How many times you have seen Barkov to make statements which are far from truth?

Barkov as 16 year old and it was game tying goal in the last minute of the game at 1.13, watch the slow motions so you will get clear picture from velocity of that shot:

Its a rebound goal. I don't think Barkov will ever be as good a scorer as Sundin was. MacKinnon had a hat-trick in the Ivan Hlinka final game. Toews had his shootout heroics. Eberle had his late minute goals. That is the early signs of a clutch player, to which Barkov has not shown. I'm not saying he won't be a clutch player, but at this point it is certainly not at the same point as Nathan MacKinnon.

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12-05-2012, 03:19 PM
  #738
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Its a rebound goal. I don't think Barkov will ever be as good a scorer as Sundin was. MacKinnon had a hat-trick in the Ivan Hlinka final game. Toews had his shootout heroics. Eberle had his late minute goals. That is the early signs of a clutch player, to which Barkov has not shown. I'm not saying he won't be a clutch player, but at this point it is certainly not at the same point as Nathan MacKinnon.
Both players were older. Maybe it would be fair to say you don't know if he is a clutch player, until you have seen a little more of him on an international stage. Unless you were expecting him to put the team on his back as a 16 year old in the Juniors?

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Old
12-05-2012, 03:33 PM
  #739
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Its a rebound goal. I don't think Barkov will ever be as good a scorer as Sundin was. MacKinnon had a hat-trick in the Ivan Hlinka final game. Toews had his shootout heroics. Eberle had his late minute goals. That is the early signs of a clutch player, to which Barkov has not shown. I'm not saying he won't be a clutch player, but at this point it is certainly not at the same point as Nathan MacKinnon.
"Clutch" doesn't exist. Players who are clutch players -- Sakic, Sundin, Orr, Crosby, etc -- are just the best players on the ice. So if someone is going to be a late game hero, it's disproportionately going to be them.

And are we really trying to say Barkov isn't "clutch" enough? That's a knock now? Really?

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Old
12-05-2012, 06:23 PM
  #740
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Its a rebound goal. I don't think Barkov will ever be as good a scorer as Sundin was. MacKinnon had a hat-trick in the Ivan Hlinka final game. Toews had his shootout heroics. Eberle had his late minute goals. That is the early signs of a clutch player, to which Barkov has not shown. I'm not saying he won't be a clutch player, but at this point it is certainly not at the same point as Nathan MacKinnon.
At 1.13 of that video he sniped from blueline to the top shelf and you claimed that you don't believe that his shot isn't good enough to beat the goalie from top circle and you seem to ignore that. Barkov scored game winner in QF of WJC at age of 16. He assisted first goal in the semifinals of WJC. Barkov had 4/4 at the shootouts in important game in finland and set the new record. Wasn't a FEL game but important U20 game and he was 14-15 at the time. There is clear signs about his clutchness but there haven't been much buzz in NA about them. You seem to be very biased and claim alot of things about Barkov which are far from truth. Put some facts on the table before stating something.

You have barely seen Barkov to judge him like you was downplaying his shot which is excellent for 17 year old kid and among the best of the draft. His slapshot is as good as his wrister aswell. Blasted game winner from blueline with his slapper at Ivan Hlinka against usa from the blueline as 15 year old kid and totally made Galchenyuk nonfactor in that game. It was 2011 ivan hlinka and Barkov was among best players in that tournament. Barkov is outplaying many NHL stars in FEL right now. To think him playing against NHLers at age of 17 is crazy which is valuable experience for him.

Barkov has game which translates perfectly in the NHL. He plays simple effective game and it looks like he is veteran player with alot of experience. Will MacKinnons game translate perfectly in the NHL when he is facing much stronger, faster and smarter defenseman than against kids who never will see an pro game in their life. Can he do those flashy moves and rushes against defenders who are experienced much smarter, stronger who have faced much tougher players like crosby, malkin etc.

I actualy think that MacKinnon is special prospect and is favourite to go first but he has his questionmarks aswell. There is not perfect prospects. It's stupid to downplay Barkov if he can't dominate pro players if NHL stars can't do it in FEL. What Barkov is doing right now is unseen in european top league and we have to remember it's european top league added with NHL stars. It's big advantage to Barkov to grow and face very tough competition, learn from the very best players of this game already at 17.

I'm not here to mock you but opening your eyes that Barkov is special player for his age just like any other in this draft. Sedins aren't the best skaters but couple years ago were the top 2 players of NHL. I won't say who is better etc. I'm just shooting your nonsence talks down.

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Old
12-05-2012, 07:05 PM
  #741
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
You can't instantly judge if a guy has "it". You have to watch them on and off the puck, and see their overall impact on a shift/game.

Joe Thornton wasn't the fastest guy, neither was Sundin, but they have/had "it" because of the impact they made on games.

As you've once said, "it's not all flash". Barkov has flash, leadership ability, size, strength, and boatloads of potential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I swear you are the most bipolar poster on this site. Last year Galchenyuk was too much flash for you, this year Barkov isn't enough. Make up your mind.
"It" Factor to me is not flash, when I use the term "IT" to me there is something about that player that is a special.

I used the example of Toews and Huberdeau earlier, I wouldn't call them flashy, but you could tell there was something special about these guys, they are winners.

Wendel Clark had an "it" factor. Joe Sakic, Scott Neidermayer.

It's not measured in talent or points. Alex Semin and Kovalev 2 very talented and flashy players never had an "it" factor to me, so what I am saying is to me "it" factor simply means there is something extraordinary or special about an athlete.

Not the fastest, strongest, most talented player, but someone that is very good at their craft. Ie. Tom Brady, Doug Gilmour, Robbie Alomar, ect...

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12-05-2012, 07:07 PM
  #742
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"It" Factor to me is not flash, when I use the term "IT" to me there is something about that player that is a special.

I used the example of Toews and Huberdeau earlier, I wouldn't call them flashy, but you could tell there was something special about these guys, they are winners.

Wendel Clark had an "it" factor. Joe Sakic, Scott Neidermayer.

It's not measured in talent or points. Alex Semin and Kovalev 2 very talented and flashy players never had an "it" factor to me, so what I am saying is to me "it" factor simply means there is something extraordinary or special about an athlete.

Not the fastest, strongest, most talented player, but someone that is very good at their craft. Ie. Tom Brady, Doug Gilmour, Robbie Alomar, ect...
And there is no prospect in the world doing what Barkov is doing RIGHT NOW. His achievements are unprecidented. I would say that he has "it" in spades.

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12-05-2012, 07:22 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by KlattNazty View Post
jason dicksinson is a nice player. i like him alot. watched him with brian huddle last night. both of us like his game, despite his insane weakness
He's a good player I agree, obcourse I was the first to mention him on our board also, hey never said I was modest.

But agree.

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12-05-2012, 07:33 PM
  #744
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I definitely think Barkov is overhyped. The Sundin comparison is ridiculous. The fan-boying of him over MacKinnon is juvenile to me. I think he'll be a good player, but MacKinnon will be a star, and I will bet anyone any amount of v-cash both him and Seth Jones are taken ahead of Barkov.

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12-05-2012, 07:38 PM
  #745
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If we don't get a top 5 this year , i may lose it.... Seems that the top 5 are likely superstars and the rest will take some solid scouting to find the gem.

My order has changed a bit

Mackinnon
Barkov
Monahan
Jones (if we needed D, he would be one higher)
Drouin
From which I conclude (a) you don't want them to make the playoffs if there is a season, and (b) you don't have faith in the scouting staff retained/hired by Burkie.

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:03 AM
  #746
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I am getting tired of cleaning this place up and getting others to come over here to make sure people are following the norms. This is a draft thread, about prospects who are eligible for the 2013 draft or beyond, not your personal fanclub competition. Keep it on topic, we are all good, keep moving towards other areas which eventually leads to personal attacks. You are gone from this thread along with an infraction if trend continues. No more blanket warnings, I'd be thinking mods cleaning up the mess without actions taken would be enough of a hint but it seems like it must be spelled out for some.

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12-06-2012, 09:09 AM
  #747
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From which I conclude (a) you don't want them to make the playoffs if there is a season, and (b) you don't have faith in the scouting staff retained/hired by Burkie.
I will cheer the leafs on every single game.

That was before all this stuff started to go off about the year starting back up. Until it actually does, im sold on the fact that it will be a full on 'no season draft'

In saying that i hope the scouting staff can begin to draft more Frattins, etc in the later rounds.

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12-06-2012, 10:26 AM
  #748
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Two things I hope we take out of this draft are a top end goalie (Comrie or Martin) and a talented 3c candidate.

Actually is be fine trading for those pieces too just saying we have holes there.

Two prospects I could see us targeting are Gibson from ANA and Jenner from CBJ. Personally think Gibson could be available for right price

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12-06-2012, 10:31 AM
  #749
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Two things I hope we take out of this draft are a top end goalie (Comrie or Martin) and a talented 3c candidate.

Actually is be fine trading for those pieces too just saying we have holes there.

Two prospects I could see us targeting are Gibson from ANA and Jenner from CBJ. Personally think Gibson could be available for right price
Highly doubt Gibson would be available. Hiller is 30, and Gibson is next in line. Why would the ducks give him up?

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12-06-2012, 10:35 AM
  #750
KlattNazty
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Highly doubt Gibson would be available. Hiller is 30, and Gibson is next in line. Why would the ducks give him up?
I said for right price for starters, but: 30 is not that old for goalies, it really isn't. Bobkov + Fasth are legit options and I think they have another prospect I am forgetting, and if they are going to try and express to Getz + Perry they are serious they may look to add another controllable piece.

For that reason a guy like Franson comes to mind but sadly they stocked up on D. Not sure just saying I see a plausible scenario.

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