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Old
12-05-2012, 12:54 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Medvedev told that teams from Finland & Germany can join the league in the next season.
http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/573971
To clarify, he said in the Finnish papers that the door is open for Finnish teams to join and thinks it could happen in two years. He thinks there's enough money or companies to sponsor a team in Finland but clearly he hasn't been looking at the state of Finnish economy lately. Lots of companies laying off people and sport sponsorship in general being on the decline or companies at least being very conservative. Funniest example of a company he mentioned naturally was Nokia. Guess he doesn't own Nokia stock. So yeah, it's not happening anytime soon, if ever.

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12-05-2012, 02:59 PM
  #202
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Today I read a huge article about Finnish economy. Doesn't look well for you guys up in the north. Maybe news are still on the way to Russia...

I mean he just said what he always says - everything is possible. But unless there comes money from outside it's unrealistic that we see new teams from Western Europe...

The only 2 teams I see realistically entering KHL because they have a big modern arena, lots of fans and the money are Eisbären Berlin and Adler Mannheim from the DEL. They also alrady showed during European Trophy that they can fill their arenas against teams from other countries.

But then there would be the question if their fans wouldn't prefer staying in DEL against their archrivals and winning titles rather than facing Novokuznetsk and maybe never win Gagarin Cup.

PS:

Let's say they really would join KHL next year. Then Torpedo and Donbass could move to Eastern Conference for them. A divsion with Berlin, Mannheim, Lev Prague, Slovan Bratislava, Dynamo Moscow, SKA St. Petersburg and Dinamo Riga would be amazing !


Last edited by Vicente: 12-05-2012 at 03:13 PM.
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12-05-2012, 04:21 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
So what you guys are proposing is "**** KHL, **** NHL - let's have a global league". That's just dumb.
Why exactly? What's "dumb" about having a league uniting all of the world's top teams and top players, instead of having two or more such leagues? And what's "not dumb" about the status quo, with the best European players leaving for another continent so they pretty much never get to play in front of fans in the country where they grew up?

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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
As if anyone in the world would like to see a game Minnesota Wild vs. Ak Bars Kazan or Dinamo Minsk vs. Los Angeles Kings...
Are you kidding, Vicente? Games against NHL teams would be a huge hit on the European side. Everyone would like to see them. As to the American side, if the European teams were competitive enough, they might definitely be a hit overseas, too. Remember how popular the various "Summit Series" have always been. If there was a world-wide hockey league, European stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Selanne et al might never have left Europe... and you think they wouldn't draw big audience numbers overseas? I'm sure they would.

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Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Or NHL teams doing a month long road trip to Russia. lol.
Who says "month-long"? Are the KHL teams doing "month-long" trips to Siberia and Khabarovsk right now? Nope. Yet the distance covered is (for Central European teams) substantially greater than if they played a string of games on a road-trip, say, on the American East Coast.

Here is what I would like... I would keep the regular season 82 games long as it is now in the NHL, and I would let about a quarter of those games be played against teams from the other continent. That means:
  • 42 games against teams from one's own division (those divisions would be broader than they are in today's NHL and KHL)
  • 20 games against other teams from the same continent
  • 20 games against teams from a different continent
In terms of home and away games, there would be an even split so that, for example, in Slovan's case, the home games would be:
  • 21 home games against teams from one's own division
  • 10 home games against other teams from the same continent
  • 10 home games against current NHL teams, i.e. teams from a different continent
Because there are 30 NHL teams now, if the above model was adopted, Slovan would get to play against all NHL teams at home in a 3-year rotation, which I would find acceptable and which is similar to today's NHL setup.

In terms of road trips, because a team would "only" be required to play 10 games per season on another continent, that could be done on 2 transatlantic road trips per 5 games each. 5 games hardly require a month, do they? In fact, there are much longer road trips in the current NHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Medvedev told that teams from Finland & Germany can join the league in the next season.
http://www.sovsport.ru/news/text-item/573971
That would be great!

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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
He thinks there's enough money or companies to sponsor a team in Finland but clearly he hasn't been looking at the state of Finnish economy lately. Lots of companies laying off people and sport sponsorship in general being on the decline or companies at least being very conservative.
You know what... If the Finnish economy is down on its knees, perhaps that's the ideal scenario for a Finnish team to join the KHL. I'm half-kidding, but Slovakia's economy is in a terrible state, we're feeling the full impact of the financial crisis... and still Slovakia managed to send a team to the KHL the last 2 seasons. I should also mention that it is especially in times of crises that people seek diversion, in the world of sports, from the unhappy state of economy and politics. When everything is moving along smoothly, people are hardly likely to welcome any change to the status quo. But when things go bad, as they have in Slovakia in recent years, teams are pressed to look for new and better solutions, as Slovan did.

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12-05-2012, 05:35 PM
  #204
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because the league spans two continents instead
Europe is not really a continent. Europe is just the western continuation of Asia. There are no natural boundaries between Europe and Asia. Together they form an Eurasian continent.

Maybe they should have named the league as Eurasian Hockey League (EHL).

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12-05-2012, 06:34 PM
  #205
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Nitpicking much? The very first sentence in the "Europe" article in Wikipedia goes: "Europe is, by convention, one of the world's seven continents."

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Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
Maybe they should have named the league as Eurasian Hockey League (EHL).
You're contradicting yourself. Because you hold Europe and Asia to be one continent, the current KHL name is just fine, isn't it? Besides, who cares? The NHL is a misnomer, too, because it's played by teams from two "nations".

It's clear, though, that should there be a world-wide hockey league one day (it's permitted to dream, right?), neither the monicker of NHL or KHL will do. It would have to be something like GHL (Global Hockey League). I would keep the Stanley Cup as the world's top hockey trophy, however, because it has by far the longest tradition. (No offence to Mr. Gagarin.) Gagarin Cup could be given to the winner of the "European Conference" or "Eastern Conference" (comprising Europe and Asia), and the winner of Gagarin Cup would then play in the GHL play-off finals against the winner of the "American Conference" or "Western Conference" (= the entire current NHL) for the Stanley Cup.

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12-05-2012, 06:45 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Nitpicking much? The very first sentence in the "Europe" article in Wikipedia goes: "Europe is, by convention, one of the world's seven continents."
Europe is a continent only by an unusual agreement. By natural basis it should not be a continent of it's own. I guess Europe is considered its own continent mainly because Europeans don't want to be mentioned together with the Asians.

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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
You're contradicting yourself. Because you hold Europe and Asia to be one continent, the current KHL name is just fine, isn't it?
The name Kontinental Hockey League is fine because it basically says the KHL is spread through one continent, the Eurasian continent. But the name Eurasian Hockey League would have been even more descriptive because it would also name the continent where the KHL is played


Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
It's clear, though, that should there be a world-wide hockey league one day (it's permitted to dream, right?), neither the monicker of NHL or KHL will do. It would have to be something like GHL (Global Hockey League). I would keep the Stanley Cup as the world's top hockey trophy, however, because it has by far the longest tradition. (No offence to Mr. Gagarin.) Gagarin Cup could be given to the winner of the "European Conference" or "Eastern Conference" (comprising Europe and Asia), and the winner of Gagarin Cup would then play in the GHL play-off finals against the winner of the "American Conference" or "Western Conference" (= the entire current NHL) for the Stanley Cup.
This is a distant dream now. Different time zones. Different economic strengths. Different cultures. Different languages.

I don't see that happening. Maybe there could eventually be a trophy called World Cup which will be played by the winners of the NHL and the KHL. Maybe a best of three or best of five series. Then again maybe not. The Stanley Cup is the biggest trophy for the North Americans and I just don't see them competing with the KHL teams with same intensity.

It was different when the USSR was still around. The North Americans wanted to beat the Red Army and the Soviet national team as badly as they wanted to win the Stanley Cup. But times are different now.

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12-05-2012, 08:47 PM
  #207
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Are you kidding, Vicente? Games against NHL teams would be a huge hit on the European side. Everyone would like to see them. As to the American side, if the European teams were competitive enough, they might definitely be a hit overseas, too. Remember how popular the various "Summit Series" have always been. If there was a world-wide hockey league, European stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Selanne et al might never have left Europe... and you think they wouldn't draw big audience numbers overseas? I'm sure they would.
I like to read all your posts, they are all interesting. But sometimes I disagree. I remember games of long ago CSKA Moscow against NHL teams. They were interesting on American side first of all because it was clash of two systems: communism (or socialism whatever you want) against capitalism. But in the case of GHL I doubt that it would be so interesting. Even in the NHL what is more interesting to watch: derby like Pittsburgh vs Philadelphia or Pittsburgh vs Saint Lous Blues?

Even the KHL, lets' suggest in two years Milan Italy, Vladivostok, may be others teams will join KHL, will it add the quality to the KHL, I doubt.
What is the optimal quantity of teams in a sports league? I doubt that it would exceed more than 30-34. People (aside of advanced fans) already don't know all teams and players and it's not surprise that games against those teams don't excite their minds already


Last edited by od71: 12-05-2012 at 08:58 PM.
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Old
12-05-2012, 09:04 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
You know what... If the Finnish economy is down on its knees, perhaps that's the ideal scenario for a Finnish team to join the KHL. I'm half-kidding, but Slovakia's economy is in a terrible state, we're feeling the full impact of the financial crisis... and still Slovakia managed to send a team to the KHL the last 2 seasons. I should also mention that it is especially in times of crises that people seek diversion, in the world of sports, from the unhappy state of economy and politics. When everything is moving along smoothly, people are hardly likely to welcome any change to the status quo. But when things go bad, as they have in Slovakia in recent years, teams are pressed to look for new and better solutions, as Slovan did.
When it comes to the state of the Slovakian and Finnish league, the difference couldn't be more different. Medvedev pretty much said Jokerit being the only existing team possible to join (due to having the biggest arena in Finland)but Jokerit have only recently started to look like a professional organization, basically since Jarmo Kekäläinen was hired as the GM. There's still plenty of untapped potential in Finland for Jokerit to achieve financially in addition to fulfilling the hockey ambitions. The fan sectio nat Hartwall Areena is growing almost every year, there's going to be 1350 fans travelling to Turku next Saturday for the TPS game, the largest fan trip ever in Finland. Those fans want to see their team play and succeed in SM-liiga, not bolt to KHL.

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12-05-2012, 10:03 PM
  #209
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@od71

Yes, there needs to be quality, not quantity. It would make no sense to set up a world-wide hockey league if teams from the "European Conference" weren't able to beat NHL teams on a regular basis. And not just a handful of top European teams, but each European team joining a world-wide hockey league would have to possess the potential to beat any NHL team on any given night. Given that proviso, it might be interesting to watch those American-European confrontations on a regular basis throughout the regular season, especially when I suggest for this to happen for "only" 10 home games per season. Road trips, on the other hand, might be attractive due to the necessity to adapt, for the 10 games of the 2 transatlantic road trips, to the wider/narrower rink compared to the standard of one's own continent.

Also, you could cancel All Star Games and instead, make a 2-week break every February for a genuine World Championships tournament (except it would be the Olympic tournament every 4 years), which would in essence be an All Star Tournament, but unlike the All Star Games, highly prestigious and competitive. The current depleted WC tourneys make a mockery of their name.

I agree that all of this are absolutely far-fetched visions right now and in no way realistic at this point.

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12-06-2012, 03:36 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
Let's say they really would join KHL next year. Then Torpedo and Donbass could move to Eastern Conference for them. A divsion with Berlin, Mannheim, Lev Prague, Slovan Bratislava, Dynamo Moscow, SKA St. Petersburg and Dinamo Riga would be amazing !
Medvescak and Rossoblu are geographically far closer than Moscow/St. Petersburg, would make better sence to group teams from same geographical area. Only downside would be lower competitivness of such a division packed with too many low-budget teams / bottom feeders.

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12-06-2012, 04:13 AM
  #211
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Urban, person from Czech hockey federation (secretar or so), said for idnes.cz that IIHF is considering rebirth of European Championship to replace Euro Hockey Tour. He said also that new format of european club league (champions league or so) is developing now. According to Kumola (president of Finnish hockey federation and vicepresident of IIHF) and Lennartsson (head of ET) this new euro league should consist of KHL teams as well.

All changes after Sochi Games, season 2014/15

It will be interesting .....

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12-06-2012, 05:18 AM
  #212
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http://hokej.idnes.cz/euro-hockey-to...prezentace_cig

Euro Hockey Tour should die in 2013/14 and will be replaced by 12-team European Championship. Rene Fasel supports that idea as well.

Poll included. Do you agree with cancelling EHT and it´s replacement by European Championshiop ? Yes: 5003, No: 983

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12-06-2012, 05:57 AM
  #213
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"Euro Hockey Tour" is another misnomer. There's nothing "Euro" about it. It's just 4 countries playing among themselves, telling all other countries, "Get the **** out of here!" It's a travesty discriminating against most of hockey Europe, and it should never have existed.

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12-06-2012, 06:56 AM
  #214
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For all people in Europe but the four participating nations of Euro Hockey Tour the tournament is completely unimportant. A real European Championship though would be fun to watch (though I don't think there is much of a difference towards the WC as 14/16 teams are from Europe lol).

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12-06-2012, 08:07 AM
  #215
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not even participant countries cared about EHT imo.

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12-06-2012, 09:19 AM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Why exactly? What's "dumb" about having a league uniting all of the world's top teams and top players, instead of having two or more such leagues? And what's "not dumb" about the status quo, with the best European players leaving for another continent so they pretty much never get to play in front of fans in the country where they grew up?
He's right. A global league isn't a feasible or clever idea. It's a gimmick. A global league in any sport isn't particularly feasible, because of the travel costs, disparity in economies and time zones. Unless you split up the conferences and have the winners meet each other ; but that isn't a global league and has many issues of its own.

The current status quo isn't dumb. It is realism. Players exist to make money. The money is in North America, hence they go there. Plus for many it is a desirable location. In soccer, we have many many good football nations, however, by and large, only a few domestic leagues really compete for top end talent. This is again because of money. It is a really simple concept, and European hockey isn't going to be able to compete economically anytime soon with the United States/Canada unless something drastic and crazy happens.


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Are you kidding, Vicente? Games against NHL teams would be a huge hit on the European side. Everyone would like to see them. As to the American side, if the European teams were competitive enough, they might definitely be a hit overseas, too. Remember how popular the various "Summit Series" have always been. If there was a world-wide hockey league, European stars like Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk, Selanne et al might never have left Europe... and you think they wouldn't draw big audience numbers overseas? I'm sure they would.
A huge hit for who? You're creating an idealistic concept without realising the ramifications it has for many. Who do you let into this league? How does it impact domestic hockey and development for individual European nations? What happens with those left behind? How does it impact the incentive to focus on youth development for those left behind? How do you financially make these players play in Europe? Do you require larger stadiums? Can the European population as a whole afford North American prices (Because how are these salaries going to be paid?)? How does the competition interact? How do different time zones impact the audience share? Will the average American/Canadian want to watch 2 European teams? Does the average Swede care about Frolunda versus CSKA or the Florida Panthers?

Honestly, there are so many variables and factors to think about when suggesting such an idea, and it seems as if you neglected all these in favour of simply going "Wouldn't it be cool if European stars played in Europe versus NHL teams!". Well yes, but i also imagine you would quite like to have pillow fights and bed time schlong talk with the cheerleaders of SKA in your bedroom. Doesn't mean it is feasible.


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Who says "month-long"? Are the KHL teams doing "month-long" trips to Siberia and Khabarovsk right now? Nope. Yet the distance covered is (for Central European teams) substantially greater than if they played a string of games on a road-trip, say, on the American East Coast.
Constant travel. Fans watching games on the television ... alot harder. The cost of travel. Very expensive. The desire for some fans to watch these games .... questionable. There is a difference between a couple of teams out east in the KHL and having a global league.

Quote:
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Here is what I would like... I would keep the regular season 82 games long as it is now in the NHL, and I would let about a quarter of those games be played against teams from the other continent. That means:
  • 42 games against teams from one's own division (those divisions would be broader than they are in today's NHL and KHL)
  • 20 games against other teams from the same continent
  • 20 games against teams from a different continent
In terms of home and away games, there would be an even split so that, for example, in Slovan's case, the home games would be:
  • 21 home games against teams from one's own division
  • 10 home games against other teams from the same continent
  • 10 home games against current NHL teams, i.e. teams from a different continent
Because there are 30 NHL teams now, if the above model was adopted, Slovan would get to play against all NHL teams at home in a 3-year rotation, which I would find acceptable and which is similar to today's NHL setup.
Apart from how economically crazy i think the model proposed above is, how many teams do you intend on participating in this structure, and who are they?


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In terms of road trips, because a team would "only" be required to play 10 games per season on another continent, that could be done on 2 transatlantic road trips per 5 games each. 5 games hardly require a month, do they? In fact, there are much longer road trips in the current NHL.


That would be great!
Even this is very very far from ideal for teams.


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You know what... If the Finnish economy is down on its knees, perhaps that's the ideal scenario for a Finnish team to join the KHL. I'm half-kidding, but Slovakia's economy is in a terrible state, we're feeling the full impact of the financial crisis... and still Slovakia managed to send a team to the KHL the last 2 seasons. I should also mention that it is especially in times of crises that people seek diversion, in the world of sports, from the unhappy state of economy and politics. When everything is moving along smoothly, people are hardly likely to welcome any change to the status quo. But when things go bad, as they have in Slovakia in recent years, teams are pressed to look for new and better solutions, as Slovan did.
One team. This year, Slovan, the most popular and economically powerful team. A team that in the KHL, is not economically powerful relative to some of its opponents.

We also one year in to the experiment. Let us see how it plays out for both Slovan and the remaining clubs in Slovakia. What Slovakia needs is better youth development and a better quality domestic product.

As i've said before, i think the KHL should be focusing on developing Russian markets rather than expanding west. Milan is a crazy idea to me. I don't want to see Swedish/Finnish teams in the KHL, because currently, they are developing talent just fine.

But the concept of a global league is pure fantasy. You've ignored the main reason it does not exist in the first place ; economics.

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12-06-2012, 09:40 AM
  #217
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You know, many things that were "fantasy" some time ago are reality today. I don't only mean Slovan's participation in the KHL, which 10 years ago everyone would have said was an insane idea, never possible in 100 years.

I also mean, for example, that a Russian hockey league can now offer salaries competitive with (or even surpassing) those in the NHL. If you said 20 years ago that this would one day be real, they would call the ambulance for you. I distinctly remember how in the early 1990s, the Russian leagues -- both hockey and football -- were considered a joke by most Europeans. It was unthinkable, back then, for a Slovak hockey player to go play for a Russian team, because it would be considered laughable and disgraceful. Despite its monumental size, the Soviet Union always had the image of a poor country, salary-wise, in the former Czechoslovakia.

Somehow, in the course of the 1990s, all of this got reversed and going to play for a Russian club, instead of being disgraceful, became both prestigious and profitable.

And so, I have no specific answers to your questions right now. I'm only saying that what seems utter fantasy today, may well become reality 20 years from now. There is no reason to suppose that, for example, the economy in 2032 will be the same as in 2012. Just compare 1992 and 2012 -- the changes are staggering.

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12-06-2012, 10:06 AM
  #218
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your only problem is that you want euro leagues to be farm leagues of NHL. I dont agree.

Quote:
I don't want to see Swedish/Finnish teams in the KHL, because currently, they are developing talent just fine.
I dont support idea of global league as Faterson wrote. This guy is right with one important thing - economy.

Quote:
There is no reason to suppose that, for example, the economy in 2032 will be the same as in 2012. Just compare 1992 and 2012 -- the changes are staggering.
Today money are in US, tommorow in Asia.

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12-06-2012, 10:17 AM
  #219
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What many people don't get - if you "free" European hockey leagues from being farm leagues for NHL by making them farm leagues for KHL/Global Hockey League that helps nobody but the "big new leagues".

Do you really think it would be better to have 1 or 2 top leagues and the rest of the hockey world is ridiculous **** or do you want to have two top leagues (NHL/KHL) and 5-6 very good other leagues (DEL, Elitserien, SM-liga, NLA, Czech Extraliga, maybe EBEL)????

I mean for me it is no surprise that these ideas come from places like Russia (where KHL is the top league) or places like Slovakia whose league is at a very, very low level compared to other European top leagues. That is incredibly selfish.

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12-06-2012, 10:30 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
What many people don't get - if you "free" European hockey leagues from being farm leagues for NHL by making them farm leagues for KHL/Global Hockey League that helps nobody but the "big new leagues".

Do you really think it would be better to have 1 or 2 top leagues and the rest of the hockey world is ridiculous **** or do you want to have two top leagues (NHL/KHL) and 5-6 very good other leagues (DEL, Elitserien, SM-liga, NLA, Czech Extraliga, maybe EBEL)????

I mean for me it is no surprise that these ideas come from places like Russia (where KHL is the top league) or places like Slovakia whose league is at a very, very low level compared to other European top leagues. That is incredibly selfish.
I prefere bold part, but it is not reality. Economy is the answer.

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12-06-2012, 10:52 AM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
You know, many things that were "fantasy" some time ago are reality today. I don't only mean Slovan's participation in the KHL, which 10 years ago everyone would have said was an insane idea, never possible in 100 years.
There is a difference between a fatally flawed system (Soviet Communism/Stalinism) which allowed former Soviet players to to go North America, or Slovan joining a Russian based league ; where there own domestic league has many many troubles.

If you want to disprove "fantasy", then argue some valid points, rather than the wishy washy statement above. For a Global league, or for European based teams to increase in pulling power, one of three things must happen ; Traditional hockey Europe becomes much more economically power, Non-traditional hockey Europe excels at the sport and becomes more economically power or North America loses it's economic clout (I.e the ability to pay players large salaries).

Until any of those outcomes happen, a Global league where European teams cannot compete is not really plausible.

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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
I also mean, for example, that a Russian hockey league can now offer salaries competitive with (or even surpassing) those in the NHL. If you said 20 years ago that this would one day be real, they would call the ambulance for you. I distinctly remember how in the early 1990s, the Russian leagues -- both hockey and football -- were considered a joke by most Europeans. It was unthinkable, back then, for a Slovak hockey player to go play for a Russian team, because it would be considered laughable and disgraceful. Despite its monumental size, the Soviet Union always had the image of a poor country, salary-wise, in the former Czechoslovakia.
That is a little misleading. Yes, a few players (and the vats majority are players returning due to the NHL lockout) can recieve NHL salaries in the KHL. A few. The average salary is much lower however, and only a few teams can afford to give these salaries. Even the most financially restricted teams in the NHL can afford salaries the majority of KHL teams cannot do. Currently, salary wise ; the NHL and the KHL are not comparable.

Russia is becoming a wealthier country. Undoubtedly. Yet, North America is still currently on average much wealthier. Ticket prices in North America are much higher. European attendance revenue does not even compare to that of the NHL.

Secondly, this Global league proposal i presume does simply not just include Russian teams, but teams from Sweden, Finland etc. If we agree that on average, KHL teams have significantly less purchasing power than NHL teams, then the disparity between a higher end SEL team and an NHL team is even bigger. Some Russian markets can compete. Basically no markets in Europe outside of Russia can compete with the NHL. The markets are too small either in circulating money or simply size.

It is not economically plausible for teams in Europe to compete financially with the NHL currently. The only way you see European stars staying in Europe is if the money is relatively comparable to that of the NHL. Currently, in nearly all circumstances, it is not. I do not see that changing.

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Originally Posted by Faterson View Post
Somehow, in the course of the 1990s, all of this got reversed and going to play for a Russian club, instead of being disgraceful, became both prestigious and profitable.

And so, I have no specific answers to your questions right now. I'm only saying that what seems utter fantasy today, may well become reality 20 years from now. There is no reason to suppose that, for example, the economy in 2032 will be the same as in 2012. Just compare 1992 and 2012 -- the changes are staggering.
If you have no specific answers, then you have no case. I am not interested in baseless conjecture. One cannot say fantasy is not fantasy simply because "things change".

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12-06-2012, 11:02 AM
  #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
J17 Vs Proclamation
your only problem is that you want euro leagues to be farm leagues of NHL. I dont agree.
From my perspective, i wish to see one league in the world where all the elite talent collects to provide a wonderful spectacle. I personally don't particularly care where this happens ; currently it is the NHL.

Nationalism/Patriotism is an inherently flawed ideal, founded mostly on stupid notions that are contradicted by history anyway. I simply wish to see the best product.

I have said many times that the compensation given by the NHL to European teams is far too small, and hurting European ice hockey.

I am simply being realistic. Who is the farm, and who is the farmer is purely dictated on where the capital is.



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I dont support idea of global league as Faterson wrote. This guy is right with one important thing - economy.
He isn't right with the economy. He entirely neglects the idea with his fanaticism. He seems to lack any notion of why talent distrubtion amongst leagues is structured the way it is. The idea of a Global league is entirely nonsensical.





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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Today money are in US, tommorow in Asia.
Perhaps, but we are discussing this within the framework of the economics of ice hockey. Thus, Asia is almost an irrelevant market. It is not as if the United States is going anywhere, either. The only significant ice hockey market in Europe which has fiscal relevance globally is Russia. The problem is, the Russian population is still poorer than the North America population, and has much much less purchasing power. The NHL is is good business for some of it's members. The KHL currently is not. The only way the KHL (and we should ignore the rest of Europe, because the idea that they can ever compete financially is absurd) can truely compete with the NHL is if it is a level playing field economically.

How close would you say they are?

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12-06-2012, 11:03 AM
  #223
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Basically no markets in Europe outside of Russia can compete with the NHL. The markets are too small either in circulating money or simply size.
And therefore one league - KHL - is ideal for Europe. Or close cooperation ET and KHL.

Yes, domestic leagues woudl be ruined, but who cares? Now they are developing leagues, they can stay developing league if a few teams from country joins KHL. No difference .. yes, there is one - this leagues will not be farm leagues of NHL anymore but ONLY KHL. It is not true that they would be farm leagues of KHL and NHL at the same time.

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12-06-2012, 11:19 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
And therefore one league - KHL - is ideal for Europe. Or close cooperation ET and KHL.

Yes, domestic leagues woudl be ruined, but who cares? Now they are developing leagues, they can stay developing league if a few teams from country joins KHL. No difference .. yes, there is one - this leagues will not be farm leagues of NHL anymore but ONLY KHL. It is not true that they would be farm leagues of KHL and NHL at the same time.
Well. The only three leagues in Europe that are farm leagues (and only the Swedes for NHL, the others for KHL) are Elitserien, SM-liiga and Czech Extraliga. All the other ones like DEL, EBEL or NLA are even signing lot of NHL players. And the fans love their domestic leagues because they are very entertaining and exciting during all of the season.

And how many players leave for NHL/KHL every year from top leagues in Western Europe? Maybe 30-40? Of several thousand professional players. That's not worth destroying national leagues...

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12-06-2012, 11:27 AM
  #225
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Proclamation, if anyone is "fanatical" in this debate, it's you with your emphasis on "money, money, money". Who says that a league or teams playing in it must be profitable? That's the American notion, where sports is viewed as business. As I'm sure you know, the KHL today almost entirely relies on sponsorship. That's the European notion of sports, if you will. Who said that the two notions are incompatible in a single league? Last time I checked, only a small minority of NHL teams was profitable, and the rest were incurring losses. And so, the few profitable NHL teams are in essence "sponsoring" the majority of NHL teams who aren't profitable. You can say that the NHL is "sponsoring itself" from within, internally, whereas the KHL is being sponsored externally, by Russian oligarchs. What's the big difference?

Also, please stop arguing with strawmen. I never said that the notion of a world-wide hockey league was not fantasy. Rather, I argued that what is "fantasy" in 2012 can turn into reality in 2032, just as many "fantasies" of the past turned into present-day realities. If you told me in the summer of 1989 that the Berlin Wall would tumble down and the Soviet Union woud dissolve within a few years, I would have considered you unhinged. Yet here we are today -- it's all real.

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