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Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): The "Ruf"fled Offseason Thread

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:23 PM
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Yeah, infield fly type power.
LOL. Willie Mayes Hayes.

SB is right. He's a slasher much like Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton. I could easily see him hitting .320+, however, with time, so I can see sacrificing the power for the OBP, Steals, Runs, Defensive Range, etc.

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12-06-2012, 12:23 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
This is a good trade. Revere is a 24 year old player that projects as our leadoff man for the next decade. Huge outfield range, tremendous vision at the plate, doesn't strikeout. His OBP will improve over time and experience.

Honestly, I was down on Worley and May after last season and clearly young pitching is something we have. I could see us now being in on a starting pitcher for next season though.
Solid deal for us. He hit mostly in the 2 spot. The kid can play and has a very good eye at the plate. Not a power bat but we now have our future leadoff man and CF for years to come. Oh, He can steal a bag or two. A very good baserunner. Like BSE said, Huge outfield range! Good luck to Worley and May I hope it works out for them with the Twins. Very good deal for the Phils. Getting there Rube.

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:28 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
LOL. Willie Mayes Hayes.

SB is right. He's a slasher much like Juan Pierre or Kenny Lofton. I could easily see him hitting .320+, however, with time, so I can see sacrificing the power for the OBP, Steals, Runs, Defensive Range, etc.
As long as he doesn't strike out a lot (which it seems he doesn't, had 50 some Ks in over 500 at bats), I don't really care that he doesn't hit for power. This team needs more players that hit for contact.

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12-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #579
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Do you guys think that's it for the outfield this off-season?

I think this completely eliminates the possibility of getting Hamilton

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Solid deal for us. He hit mostly in the 2 spot. The kid can play and has a very good eye at the plate. Not a power bat but we now have our future leadoff man and CF for years to come. Oh, He can steal a bag or two. A very good baserunner. Like BSE said, Huge outfield range! Good luck to Worley and May I hope it works out for them with the Twins. Very good deal for the Phils. Getting there Rube.
LH hitter. Can't see Cholly putting three lefties in row even if Revere hit them pretty well last year.

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:32 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Devastate View Post
Do you guys think that's it for the outfield this off-season?

I think this completely eliminates the possibility of getting Hamilton
Don't think Hamilton was every really in the Phils sights. Think they will go get another OFer unless you're happy with a Mayberry, Revere, Ruf, Brown OF. I'm not.

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:32 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Don't mind trading Worley, I guess Kendrick is getting the 4 slot?

Is Jimmy going to stand for being removed from the leadoff spot?

Also, are we getting Young??
As I posted earlier, Pierre should have been leading off last year. As long as Charlie is in charge Rollins will be the leadoff hitter.

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12-06-2012, 12:44 PM
  #583
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Is this a good move? I love baseball, played it my whole life, but unlike hockey my knowledge of players and the MLB is kind of limited to just the phillies...

Kind of seems like a lot to give up for a kid who has the power of a 12 year old and is another left hand bat. His avg and OBP looks good though. Is he a switch hitter? Do we see room for improvement in this guy?

Maybe they have something else in the works?

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12-06-2012, 12:46 PM
  #584
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Meh, ok with this deal. he has 0 career home runs but he also will be at cbp. His SlG% should go up.

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:55 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
LH hitter. Can't see Cholly putting three lefties in row even if Revere hit them pretty well last year.
I'd like to see:

Revere
Young
Utley
Howard
Ruf
Rollins
Ruiz
Mayberry/Brown

Cholly did wonders for Lofton in Cleveland. Perhaps he sees it the same way. One could hope.

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:07 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Juan Pierre is a pretty apt description. Weak Arm, but great range in CF. Makes a ton of contact and rarely strikes out, but could afford to take more walks. Potential 60+ steal speed.

Also worth noting that this is a guy on the right trajectory. He was gotten better every single year in nearly every aspect. Better defense, better plate discipline, etc. Won't hit more the 5-6 homers a season, but has decent gap to gap power for a guy his size.
He's hit 5 HR's in his entire professional career!!!

Between this move and the potential Young trade the Phillies' FO just shows how behind the times they are when it comes to hitters. Two guys that don't walk and don't hit for power. Those guys are great when you need to balance a lineup, but when you're trying to add to it, they don't really provide that much value. Its great they don't strikeout, but its proven that strikeouts aren't as bad as people make them out to be. That said, Revere provides value with his baserunning and MAYBE his defense. He's great in a corner but most reports when he was coming up were that he would be average in CF. We'll see how it plays out I guess.

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:19 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I'd like to see:

Revere
Young
Utley
Howard
Ruf
Rollins
Ruiz
Mayberry/Brown

Cholly did wonders for Lofton in Cleveland. Perhaps he sees it the same way. One could hope.
Seeing how he allowed Rollins, Howard and Victorino to hit last couple of seasons I don't have any faith in Charlie helping anyone at the plate at this point.

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:23 PM
  #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
He's hit 5 HR's in his entire professional career!!!

Between this move and the potential Young trade the Phillies' FO just shows how behind the times they are when it comes to hitters.
I think you're jumping the gun here a bit. Given how little salary is commited to a combination of Young and Revere, the Phillies would still be in excellent position to pursue a guy like Swisher in RF. While I don't know that this happens, would you honestly assert that the below line-up is incredibly imbalanced?

Revere
Young
Utley
Howard
Swisher
Ruf/Brown
Rollins
Ruiz
P

Add 1 guy to our BP and I'd feel pretty good about our team going forward.

My point is that any move should be considered in terms of a.) What is available and b.) What you can afford. Acquiring a viable CF and 3B for 8 million dollars is solid work.

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12-06-2012, 01:32 PM
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Seeing how he allowed Rollins, Howard and Victorino to hit last couple of seasons I don't have any faith in Charlie helping anyone at the plate at this point.
These are three guys that are also veteran players who are thick headed in terms of opening themselves up to changing their approach.

For the record, I don't think anyone could convince Rollins to change his approach at this point and Victorino is not the sharpest tool in the shed. As for Howard, I understand his not changing his approach considering his role on the team.

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:48 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think you're jumping the gun here a bit. Given how little salary is commited to a combination of Young and Revere, the Phillies would still be in excellent position to pursue a guy like Swisher in RF. While I don't know that this happens, would you honestly assert that the below line-up is incredibly imbalanced?

Revere
Young
Utley
Howard
Swisher
Ruf/Brown
Rollins
Ruiz
P

Add 1 guy to our BP and I'd feel pretty good about our team going forward.

My point is that any move should be considered in terms of a.) What is available and b.) What you can afford. Acquiring a viable CF and 3B for 8 million dollars is solid work.
This deal has potential to be a homerun going forward for Philly. It's like signing Michael Bourn as a 25 year old but only paying him like 2M a year for 5 years. They have a lot of payroll flexibility now.

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:49 PM
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I think you're jumping the gun here a bit. Given how little salary is commited to a combination of Young and Revere, the Phillies would still be in excellent position to pursue a guy like Swisher in RF. While I don't know that this happens, would you honestly assert that the below line-up is incredibly imbalanced?

Revere
Young
Utley
Howard
Swisher
Ruf/Brown
Rollins
Ruiz
P

Add 1 guy to our BP and I'd feel pretty good about our team going forward.

My point is that any move should be considered in terms of a.) What is available and b.) What you can afford. Acquiring a viable CF and 3B for 8 million dollars is solid work.
Assuming you sign Swisher, which it doesn't sound like he's in the mix, only he, Utley, and Dom Brown know how to work a count. Look I don't hate the Revere move. The guy was a 3 win player last year making 400k. He's one of the best contact hitters in the league. I'm just making a point, the Phillies do not value guys that get on base and make a pitcher work. I look at their minor league system, they don't have that guy. They haven't had a guy like that in a while (Singleton but they traded him).

Anyway, I think Revere would be best served hitting 2nd if Young doesn't waive his NTC.

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:05 PM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
These are three guys that are also veteran players who are thick headed in terms of opening themselves up to changing their approach.

For the record, I don't think anyone could convince Rollins to change his approach at this point and Victorino is not the sharpest tool in the shed. As for Howard, I understand his not changing his approach considering his role on the team.
With Rollins it should be simple, change your approach or hit in the 8 hole, which is where guys who hit .250 should hit.

For Victorino, he should never be allowed to hit left handed as his stats on that side of the plate are just brutal.

As for Howard, he's always been an RBI/HR machine, however his approach absolutely has changed since his ROY and MVP seasons. He used to go the opposite way quite a bit, especially for HRs, but now all he tries to do is pull the ball. His physical conditioning has also gotten much worse.

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12-06-2012, 02:10 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Assuming you sign Swisher, which it doesn't sound like he's in the mix, only he, Utley, and Dom Brown know how to work a count. Look I don't hate the Revere move. The guy was a 3 win player last year making 400k. He's one of the best contact hitters in the league. I'm just making a point, the Phillies do not value guys that get on base and make a pitcher work. I look at their minor league system, they don't have that guy. They haven't had a guy like that in a while (Singleton but they traded him).

Anyway, I think Revere would be best served hitting 2nd if Young doesn't waive his NTC.
Until a guy signs, the Phillies are in the mix. Not being tied to certain players doesn't make us any less likely to be there at the end. In fact, I can still see a ton of scenarios where Hamilton signs in Philadelphia. Yes, we are LH heavy (kind of), but when you're acquiring guys that are LH, but hit lefties well, it's doable.

There is just no way RAJ considers Revere (and Young, potentially) as the only necessary acquisitions. That's not his MO.

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12-06-2012, 02:15 PM
  #594
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Interesting stat related to Michael Young:

Quote:
From 2002 to 2011, 24 Major League players got at least 400 plate appearances and posted a negative WAR in a season in which they were between 34 and 36 years old. Seven of those 24 -- 29 perecent -- actually rebounded to be above average players in the following season.
The article goes on to suggest that Michael Young is a solid bet to rebound if he moved to Philly. Positionally certainty and job security would help as would CBP.

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12-06-2012, 02:19 PM
  #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
With Rollins it should be simple, change your approach or hit in the 8 hole, which is where guys who hit .250 should hit.

For Victorino, he should never be allowed to hit left handed as his stats on that side of the plate are just brutal.

As for Howard, he's always been an RBI/HR machine, however his approach absolutely has changed since his ROY and MVP seasons. He used to go the opposite way quite a bit, especially for HRs, but now all he tries to do is pull the ball. His physical conditioning has also gotten much worse.
With Rollins, yes, it should be simple. But it's not because for whatever reason, Charlie thinks he'll lose him if he puts him in his place. I understand it at the surface level, though I don't know why some players are too stubborn for their own good to take criticism and advice. I sometimes think if Rollins never won that MVP, it'd make things easier for Charlie.

Howard changed because he got paid. It was ingrained in his head, you are the slugger of this team, now knock off that opposite field crap and hit more long ones. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what happened and it's too late to go back now.

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12-06-2012, 02:29 PM
  #596
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Not to mention Young can play 2b if Utley has knee issues again. This will allow the Phils to keep Galvis in AAA and work on his bat rather then ride the pine in the bigs.
The guy can't even play 3B and you want him at 2B?

Quote:
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Jimmy needs to be traded. Especially if we get Young.
A trade for the worst defensive 3B in the league neccessitates trading away a gold glove caliber SS? If anything, the exact opposite of this statement is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Yeah, infield fly type power.
Good thing he had a 66.9% GB rate last year... the highest rate EVER* statistically recorded by a batter in a full season.

*Note: This stat has only been recorded since 2002

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Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
The kid can play and has a very good eye at the plate.
Hm... I am okay with the deal (mostly because I don't think Worley+May is a big loss), but let's not be disingenuous here. During his first 3 years in the league he has only drawn 57 BBs in 1064 ABs... roughly one walk every 20 ABs... also roughly 1 walk every 4-5 games. His eye is not good.

Honestly... the Phillies could have theoretically let Gillies come up and hit a .600 OPS (compared to a likely .650-.700 for Revere) for arguably better defense than Revere for the same price, so in alot of ways the deal doesn't make a ton of sense, imo.

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12-06-2012, 02:52 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
A trade for the worst defensive 3B in the league neccessitates trading away a gold glove caliber SS? If anything, the exact opposite of this statement is true.
Jimmy is no longer a gold glove SS. He's only getting older and I figured he'd be a sore thumb if they did take away his lead off spot.

I guess it's whether or not they feel they really have a chance. From my standpoint, I'm ready to rebuild this thing.

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12-06-2012, 03:07 PM
  #598
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Jimmy is no longer a gold glove SS.
I'm not sure if you were being serious, so I'll just leave this here for you:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ners-announced

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:14 PM
  #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CootaRoo View Post
I'm not sure if you were being serious, so I'll just leave this here for you:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...ners-announced


Jimmy is fine. he just needs to be moved down the order. if charlie insists on batting him first it's not a huge deal. if you can score 100+ runs in a season you're doing something right. in that case you just bat Revere second. if they can acquire a decent set-up man and a decent 3rd basemen like Young they'll be ok, assuming they stay relatively healthy.

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12-06-2012, 03:21 PM
  #600
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in that case you just bat Revere second.
Everyone keeps plugging Revere in the leadoff slot, but he doesn't actually project there well with his mediocre OBP. Imo, his low K rates, insanely high GB%, elite speed and respectable AVG all point to him being the prototypical 2-hole hitter. He is going to put the ball in play more often than not (moving runners) and beat out DP throws (minimizing superfluous outs) - that is exactly what you want in that slot in a traditional lineup... he is Polanco-lite with (even) less power and more speed at the plate.

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