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CCHL 2012-2013 season - part II (Mod warning in Post 30)

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:42 AM
  #726
CentralVet90
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The league should be disgusted with the All-Star rosters. Way too many deserving kids have been left of. Not me, but a friend of mine's son was left off the roster despite being a point a game player in the Central League. Had this been my boy I'd be furious, I tell you what. This is the Central Junior A Hockey League, arguably the premier developmental hockey league in the country, but unfortunately the league is letting politics get in the way of those who are deserving. The only thing that the league got right was adding Carmelo Pugliese, a veteran and knowledgable Central Leaguer, to the training staff.

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12-06-2012, 10:57 AM
  #727
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Originally Posted by EpicNeilTime View Post
I'm just curious as to why Byron gets his name thrown around as an potential draft pick to the NHL, but Plouffe doesn't? They're almost identical in size, and Plouffe has more points. Is his skating an issue?
better representation

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Old
12-06-2012, 11:10 AM
  #728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralVet90 View Post
The league should be disgusted with the All-Star rosters. Way too many deserving kids have been left of. Not me, but a friend of mine's son was left off the roster despite being a point a game player in the Central League. Had this been my boy I'd be furious, I tell you what. This is the Central Junior A Hockey League, arguably the premier developmental hockey league in the country, but unfortunately the league is letting politics get in the way of those who are deserving. The only thing that the league got right was adding Carmelo Pugliese, a veteran and knowledgable Central Leaguer, to the training staff.
Sorry, but when you start a rant by saying the "league should be disgusted with the All-Star Roster" and then the next words you type are "a friend of mines, son was left off" you may as well finish the rest of your rant with "Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.....

Who is this point a game kid? Who would you replace him with? Why is he deserving?

Are the roster perfect? No! Would I have picked other kids? Likely, but I am not in a position to do so nor care to be. Unless you want the work load of running the league or a team, I guess your friends son will just have to score 2 points a game to get the recognition that he deserves Or have a more powerful voice from his coach or owner to get him recognized.

Support your statement with a few facts and I might start listening!

Blah Blah Blah!

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12-06-2012, 11:31 AM
  #729
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there are some retrictions on twenty year olds, i think every team has to rep. i believe and there are some players that were asked that are going home for the holidays. This can leave out some deserving players

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12-06-2012, 12:29 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by stickhandle View Post
there are some retrictions on twenty year olds, i think every team has to rep. i believe and there are some players that were asked that are going home for the holidays. This can leave out some deserving players
Yes. I know that at least 4-5 guys in the Yzerman turned down an invite.

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12-06-2012, 12:36 PM
  #731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CentralVet90 View Post
The league should be disgusted with the All-Star rosters. Way too many deserving kids have been left of. Not me, but a friend of mine's son was left off the roster despite being a point a game player in the Central League. Had this been my boy I'd be furious, I tell you what. This is the Central Junior A Hockey League, arguably the premier developmental hockey league in the country, but unfortunately the league is letting politics get in the way of those who are deserving. The only thing that the league got right was adding Carmelo Pugliese, a veteran and knowledgable Central Leaguer, to the training staff.
As a whole the rosters are well picked...There are kids who turned down invites and other restrictions as to who can be in the game. Tell your 'friend' that every kid has a maximum of 5 years in the league and next year could be his year. There are PPG players left off every year for various reasons

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:39 PM
  #732
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Originally Posted by Rangersfan21 View Post
As a whole the rosters are well picked...There are kids who turned down invites and other restrictions as to who can be in the game. Tell your 'friend' that every kid has a maximum of 5 years in the league and next year could be his year. There are PPG players left off every year for various reasons
Interesting website: not saying I agree, as the formula they use to calculate the rankings obviously does not include that SK just left

http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=2&v=1832

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Old
12-06-2012, 12:58 PM
  #733
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SK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangersfan21 View Post
Interesting website: not saying I agree, as the formula they use to calculate the rankings obviously does not include that SK just left

http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=2&v=1832
The rankings are fluid. They change from week to week. Whether Sheldon Keefe is there or not is irrelevant.

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12-06-2012, 01:41 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Rangersfan21 View Post
Interesting website: not saying I agree, as the formula they use to calculate the rankings obviously does not include that SK just left

http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=2&v=1832

Not sure who compiled that, but the records are way off on a couple of teams

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:49 PM
  #735
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Originally Posted by BackBringCam View Post
Not sure who compiled that, but the records are way off on a couple of teams
Most look pretty close to me. Some teams have their preseason games included.

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:04 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by ottawafan66 View Post
Most look pretty close to me. Some teams have their preseason games included.
So as I recall Kemptville lit it up in the pre-season, and well we all know how their regular season has gone, so really the list is pretty much junk.

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:32 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Rangersfan21 View Post
As a whole the rosters are well picked...There are kids who turned down invites and other restrictions as to who can be in the game. Tell your 'friend' that every kid has a maximum of 5 years in the league and next year could be his year. There are PPG players left off every year for various reasons
Don't confuse PPG players with players who can actually win hockey games or championships. Situation and roles can determine quickly how well earned points really are. Playing on the umbrella in a PP will give easy points versus the guy put in front of the net who takes the beating and more often than not resposible for creating the chance but he doesnt touch the puck.

If you ranked players by even strength points, plus minus, GWGs then you might just get a big surprise. It is really too bad the league doesn't actually do plus minus.

Danglers(or "pretty" hockey players) and guys who win hockey games and championships are not always the same thing. Team Canada East sent a field stacked full of pretty hockey players with a penchant for the back of thier jersey and got thier heads handed to them.

Remember Tonelli and Team Canada?

Some of the PPG guys are so horrible in thier own end they need escorts on the ice to keep them out of trouble in thier own end. Often another talented player but one who is more prepared to check his ego and do what is right for the team to get the win.

Every once in a while pay attention to who the coach puts out in key situations where they actaully need to win a hockey game. Last minute of tight games, or end of period, PK, 5 on 3, or PP. You might just find that the PPG guy isn't there but the complete hockey player and team mate is.

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:47 PM
  #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkongphoey View Post
Don't confuse PPG players with players who can actually win hockey games or championships. Situation and roles can determine quickly how well earned points really are. Playing on the umbrella in a PP will give easy points versus the guy put in front of the net who takes the beating and more often than not resposible for creating the chance but he doesnt touch the puck.

If you ranked players by even strength points, plus minus, GWGs then you might just get a big surprise. It is really too bad the league doesn't actually do plus minus.

Danglers(or "pretty" hockey players) and guys who win hockey games and championships are not always the same thing. Team Canada East sent a field stacked full of pretty hockey players with a penchant for the back of thier jersey and got thier heads handed to them. Remember Tonelli and Team Canada?

Some of the PPG guys are so horrible in thier own end they need escorts on the ice to keep them out of trouble in thier own end. Often another talented player but one who is more prepared to check his ego and do what is right for the team to get the win.

Every once in a while pay attention to who the coach puts out in key situations where they actaully need to win a hockey game. Last minute of tight games, or end of period, PK, 5 on 3, or PP. You might just find that the PPG guy isn't there but the complete hockey player and team mate is.
Losing 1-0 to Canada West in the semi-finals is having your head handed to you? Really?!?

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:57 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by BackBringCam View Post
So as I recall Kemptville lit it up in the pre-season, and well we all know how their regular season has gone, so really the list is pretty much junk.
But how is the list junk when they have Kemptville ranked last, where they belong? I think they should exclude preseason from the rankings though.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:17 PM
  #740
Rangersfan21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkongphoey View Post
Don't confuse PPG players with players who can actually win hockey games or championships. Situation and roles can determine quickly how well earned points really are. Playing on the umbrella in a PP will give easy points versus the guy put in front of the net who takes the beating and more often than not resposible for creating the chance but he doesnt touch the puck.

If you ranked players by even strength points, plus minus, GWGs then you might just get a big surprise. It is really too bad the league doesn't actually do plus minus.

Danglers(or "pretty" hockey players) and guys who win hockey games and championships are not always the same thing. Team Canada East sent a field stacked full of pretty hockey players with a penchant for the back of thier jersey and got thier heads handed to them.

Remember Tonelli and Team Canada?

Some of the PPG guys are so horrible in thier own end they need escorts on the ice to keep them out of trouble in thier own end. Often another talented player but one who is more prepared to check his ego and do what is right for the team to get the win.

Every once in a while pay attention to who the coach puts out in key situations where they actaully need to win a hockey game. Last minute of tight games, or end of period, PK, 5 on 3, or PP. You might just find that the PPG guy isn't there but the complete hockey player and team mate is.
Did you read the last line of my post..?

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:26 PM
  #741
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Yes I did but what I forgot to do was to say explicitly say that I was adding to your very point. Apologies.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:29 PM
  #742
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Finishing 5th after finishing 2nd the prior year and being outscored by your opponents for the entire tournament is a massive underperformance.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:45 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by hongkongphoey View Post
Finishing 5th after finishing 2nd the prior year and being outscored by your opponents for the entire tournament is a massive underperformance.
Semantics....they didn't have their "heads handed to them" as you suggest....

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Old
12-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #744
hongkongphoey
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9-1 loss to the US, a 6-0 loss to the Swiss when it mattered. They had one good game against Team West and they beat the CZE which they should have done.

This was not a team that represented the best of the East. They were outscored 19- 9. They finished 5th. Those are facts, not opinions. The opinion is that the team was over filled with one dimensional players that catch the superficial eye. It was not a team that knew how to play in its own end. Pretty and winning are not the same thing.

I suspect that Smiths Falls or a healthy Raiders would have beat this team. I think that you may disagree and that's okay.

I thought TCE was the perfect example of PPG guys that don't always add up to a winning team or complete hockey players (though they often can). Give me a team full of Tonellis over a team full of Kovalevs any day. That said, I will take a few Kovalev's as long as they have a complete player on the line to keep them out of trouble. Sheldon and Peter G just might be the best at doing just that in the league. Which of course shows just how little input Sheldon had on the TCE composition.

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Old
12-06-2012, 05:28 PM
  #745
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Even Strength Analysis

Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkongphoey View Post
Don't confuse PPG players with players who can actually win hockey games or championships. Situation and roles can determine quickly how well earned points really are. Playing on the umbrella in a PP will give easy points versus the guy put in front of the net who takes the beating and more often than not resposible for creating the chance but he doesnt touch the puck.

If you ranked players by even strength points plus minus, GWGs then you might just get a big surprise.
It is really too bad the league doesn't actually do plus minus.

Danglers(or "pretty" hockey players) and guys who win hockey games and championships are not always the same thing. Team Canada East sent a field stacked full of pretty hockey players with a penchant for the back of thier jersey and got thier heads handed to them.

Remember Tonelli and Team Canada?

Some of the PPG guys are so horrible in thier own end they need escorts on the ice to keep them out of trouble in thier own end. Often another talented player but one who is more prepared to check his ego and do what is right for the team to get the win.

Every once in a while pay attention to who the coach puts out in key situations where they actaully need to win a hockey game. Last minute of tight games, or end of period, PK, 5 on 3, or PP. You might just find that the PPG guy isn't there but the complete hockey player and team mate is.

Just for fun here are the league leaders in 5-on-5 scoring (top 18):

Maniccia and Blasko 30pts.
Hedges 29
Pontarelli 28
Ferreira 27
Quince 27
Crete, Ammarato, and Neil 25pts
Robillard and Collins 24pts
Plouffe 23
B. Edwards and Bussey 22pts
Mclaren and L. Edwards 21
Petrie, Hodgson, and Walsh 20pts

Interesting (but perhaps in some instances not surprising) is that Boivin, Akeson, Clitsome, Carroll, Rosebrook, Dufour, Audi, Globke, etc. do not appear here.

This is a very simplisitic exercise as obviously some coaches play four lines and others play their top two extensively. What would be interesing (in addition to plus/minus figures) is time on the ice stats and points secured per minute played - as some kids play alot less than others.

Finally - GWG leaders this season are as follows (includes all situations): Hedges (6), Ferreira (5), L. Edwards (5) and Hrehoriak (5). Several at 4 - this as per pointstreak.


All in fun....


Last edited by Grabbers: 12-06-2012 at 06:28 PM. Reason: Error in Hedges GWG total - should read 6. Hodgson added to list
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Old
12-06-2012, 05:38 PM
  #746
hongkongphoey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabbers View Post
Just for fun here are the league leaders in 5-on-5 scoring (top 18):

Maniccia and Blasko 30pts.
Hedges 29
Pontarelli 28
Ferreira 27
Quince 27
Crete, Ammarato, and Neil 25pts
Robillard and Collins 24pts
Plouffe 23
B. Edwards and Bussey 22pts
Mclaren and L. Edwards 21
Petrie and Walsh 20pts

Interesting (but perhaps in some instances not surprising) is that Boivin, Akeson, Clitsome, Carroll, Rosebrook, Dufour, Audi, Globke, etc. do not appear here.

This is a very simplisitic exercise as obviously some coaches play four lines and others play their top two extensively. What would be interesing (in addition to plus/minus figures) is time on the ice stats and points secured per minute played - as some kids play alot less than others.

Finally - GWG leaders this season are as follows (includes all situations): Hedges (5), Ferreira (5), L. Edwards (5) and Hrehoriak (5). Several at 4 - this as per pointstreak.


All in fun....
Hmmm nice. Next step would be to go to even strength PPG. Might explain Norris absence from this list......or it might not. Would love plus minus. Grabbers, PG strikes me as a coach who has that data. You might be able to enlighten us.

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12-06-2012, 06:15 PM
  #747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkongphoey View Post
Hmmm nice. Next step would be to go to even strength PPG. Might explain Norris absence from this list......or it might not. Would love plus minus. Grabbers, PG strikes me as a coach who has that data. You might be able to enlighten us.


Hodgson has 20 even strength points in 29 games and should have been at the bottom of the list I assembled.

In the case of Norris he has 12 even strength points in only 19 gemes played this year. If you credited Norris with 6 points per 9.5 games (his average) he still wouldn't make the list.

I don't have access to plus/minus figures...even for Nepean.

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12-06-2012, 07:18 PM
  #748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabbers View Post
Hodgson has 20 even strength points in 29 games and should have been at the bottom of the list I assembled.

In the case of Norris he has 12 even strength points in only 19 gemes played this year. If you credited Norris with 6 points per 9.5 games (his average) he still wouldn't make the list.

I don't have access to plus/minus figures...even for Nepean.
Interesting, so what you are saying is Hodgson has more even strength, and likely more even strength PPG than Norris? Not many would think that. Do they use him much for PP, front or on the perimeter for PP? The difference between the two positions for points is not insignificant. I highly doubt Hodgson gets the same opportunities as Norris but what if he did?

I am certain Smiths Falls will have similar conundrums in the not too distant future given the depth inthier line up. The coaching staff will have to juggle lines and egos. Who will be prepared to take a diminished role to help the team win. Between the top teams the coaching staff who gets that right (or has more front of the jersey players) will win. Can't wait for the next half of the season.

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12-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hongkongphoey View Post
9-1 loss to the US, a 6-0 loss to the Swiss when it mattered. They had one good game against Team West and they beat the CZE which they should have done.

This was not a team that represented the best of the East. They were outscored 19- 9. They finished 5th. Those are facts, not opinions. The opinion is that the team was over filled with one dimensional players that catch the superficial eye. It was not a team that knew how to play in its own end. Pretty and winning are not the same thing.

I suspect that Smiths Falls or a healthy Raiders would have beat this team. I think that you may disagree and that's okay.

I thought TCE was the perfect example of PPG guys that don't always add up to a winning team or complete hockey players (though they often can). Give me a team full of Tonellis over a team full of Kovalevs any day. That said, I will take a few Kovalev's as long as they have a complete player on the line to keep them out of trouble. Sheldon and Peter G just might be the best at doing just that in the league. Which of course shows just how little input Sheldon had on the TCE composition.
I agree, I think TCE "s__ t the bed" at the Worlds. Although I thought the CCHL kids appeared to do pretty good. I cančt believe they had no one from the Maritime league, I don't care if they thought they did it impartially.... they should have fixed it.

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12-06-2012, 07:53 PM
  #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabbers View Post
Hodgson has 20 even strength points in 29 games and should have been at the bottom of the list I assembled.

In the case of Norris he has 12 even strength points in only 19 gemes played this year. If you credited Norris with 6 points per 9.5 games (his average) he still wouldn't make the list.

I don't have access to plus/minus figures...even for Nepean.
I enjoyed reading your analysis, great work. I think you have to be a little Leary of PTstreak stats, but after 30 games, the errors should start to even out.

Hodgson was having a great year, he's putting up pts. with little PP time, he blocks shots, energy, physical guy, I can see his All Star Selection. Norris has played well, but just couldn't find the right fit with wingers, Yarwood is difficult to play with but I thought they were just starting to gel when Yarwood got hurt. They have enough talent up front, they should be able to find 2 good scoring lines when everyone returns at the same time, + a strong 3a & 3b line.
Nepean starts a real tough stretch tomorrow night. They have 8 games in 16 nights with only one game at home, S-Plex, and they play Smith falls twice in that stretch, they need to play well just to hold onto their position.

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