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D pairings if the lockout ends today

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:06 PM
  #26
Suntouchable13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Don't know why people don't want to at least give Komi a chance to work a little more under Carlyle. He looked a lot better when Randy replaced Wilson.
I am sick of giving him chances because I am sick of mediocrity.

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12-06-2012, 01:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Suntouchable13 View Post
I am sick of giving him chances because I am sick of mediocrity.
So you're 100% sure that he has absolutely no chance at looking like a better player in a more defense-oriented system?

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12-06-2012, 01:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
So you're 100% sure that he has absolutely no chance at looking like a better player in a more defense-oriented system?
is it worth it?

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12-06-2012, 01:23 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
So you're 100% sure that he has absolutely no chance at looking like a better player in a more defense-oriented system?
I think the problem is that Komi is not getting younger (30). And he's not getting defensive coaching from Eakins, meaning he's not available to send down to the minors. And he takes awful penalties. And he can't move his feet in the new fast league. And his salary is comparable to legit top 4 defenseman (such as Giordano, Jack Johnson, Hainsey). And he hasn't had like a 1 year slide, its been like a 3/4 year collapse (minus his one good caveat of blocked shots which has probably kept him on the ice).

I'm not saying Komi is awful (although I could and still sleep well at night). I'm saying, what's the point of keeping him if there is a season? He's not getting extended (at least I ****ing hope he doesn't), and he's not going to all of a sudden be great, so why not just get rid of him and clear some space? If you can't move him, that sucks, but whatever.

I'd rather just resign Franson, say to him, you're our replacement for Komi, earn it and we'll resign you to a Komi salary, if he doesn't succeed in 100% taking over for Komi, ship him out. I don't want the leafs to give up on Franson just to see him sign somewhere like the Wings and then take off. He's too young with too much upside to just let him walk away. If you're willing to let Komi learn more defensive roles, than surely, you'd rather a young cheaper (and better) version of him do the same?


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Old
12-06-2012, 01:23 PM
  #30
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is it worth it?
Of course! If he rebounds then we have another quality Dman that can help us win games.

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12-06-2012, 01:26 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Don't know why people don't want to at least give Komi a chance to work a little more under Carlyle. He looked a lot better when Randy replaced Wilson.
He looked really good in that first game against Montreal but wasn't so great after that, and he reverted back to his garbage play for the rest of the year.

Though of course, the whole team stunk down the stretch minus Gardiner.

I really hope we can move Komi though, he's shown nothing good in his time here and is a roadblock for other more talented d-men we have in the system (like a Ranger or Holzer).

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12-06-2012, 01:29 PM
  #32
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Franson as a 7th D isn't an option. He's an RFA, and I'm almost certain that he will not sign unless promised consistent top 6 time. So either he will be in our bottom D-pairing if Burke still believes in him, or traded.
I think he'll be the first player to be moved when the CBA is signed. I could see Franson and MacArthur packaged for a top 9 player with size and toughness.

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12-06-2012, 01:30 PM
  #33
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Phaneuf - Gunnarsson
Gardiner - ???
Liles - ???
???

As it stands this is how I feel our D is The ??? can be filled by the following...


- Komisareak
- Franson
- Ranger
- Holzer


So much for our Depth at D.


I still say acquiring a guy like Hjalmarsson would benefit our D greatly. Would be a great partner for Gardiner or Liles.

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Old
12-06-2012, 01:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MakeTheIronSing View Post
I think the problem is that Komi is not getting younger (30). And he's not getting defensive coaching from Eakins, meaning he's not available to send down to the minors. And he takes awful penalties. And he can't move his feet in the new fast league. And his salary is comparable to legit top 4 defenseman (such as Giordano, Jack Johnson, Hainsey). And he hasn't had like a 1 year slide, its been like a 3/4 year collapse (minus his one good caveat of blocked shots which has probably kept him on the ice).

I'm not saying Komi is awful (although I could and still sleep well at night). I'm saying, what's the point of keeping him if there is a season? He's not getting extended (at least I ****ing hope he doesn't), and he's not going to all of a sudden be great, so why not just get rid of him and clear some space?
Clear space for what?

Komi played great hockey before coming to the Leafs and playing Wilson's system. He also picked up his play instantly when Carlyle came in, mainly because that's the kind of system that he was used to. It's not unreasonable to assume that Komi can improve his play in a more structured system where he won't be required to move his feet as much.

FYI, as much as I like Eakins and what he's done for the Marlies, at this moment he is no where near the coach that Carlyle is. I'm also pretty sure a former Norris winner might be able to throw some helpful tips Komi's way.

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12-06-2012, 01:44 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Clear space for what?

Komi played great hockey before coming to the Leafs and playing Wilson's system. He also picked up his play instantly when Carlyle came in, mainly because that's the kind of system that he was used to. It's not unreasonable to assume that Komi can improve his play in a more structured system where he won't be required to move his feet as much.

FYI, as much as I like Eakins and what he's done for the Marlies, at this moment he is no where near the coach that Carlyle is. I'm also pretty sure a former Norris winner might be able to throw some helpful tips Komi's way.
Komi sucked his final season in Montreal, ask Hab fans. Once Lucic broke him, he was never the same again.

And even with Carlyle, he was good for a couple of games but started sucking again (yes, the whole team sucked down the stretch, but still).

It's possible that he might have a comeback, but he's 30 years old and hasn't played well since 2008, almost 5 years ago.

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12-06-2012, 01:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
Franson as a 7th D isn't an option. He's an RFA, and I'm almost certain that he will not sign unless promised consistent top 6 time. So either he will be in our bottom D-pairing if Burke still believes in him, or traded.
Agreed, but at the same time he should get a major role pretty easily if he signs with us. He'd be the best right handed dman on the team by a solid margin IMO (Phaneuf, Gunnarsson, Gardiner and Liles all shoot left, and so do Rielly and Ranger for the future), I think he'd have a fairly solid spot on the 2nd pairing with Gardiner. Our defence is quite a lot thinner after we traded away Schenn and Aulie, I don't think Franson will have trouble getting ice time *IF* he's willing to sign with us.

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12-06-2012, 01:49 PM
  #37
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I hope so, because Carlyle has been touted as some defensive guru on this board, so if he can't make d men play better when they make 3.5 million dollars a year (roughly 42 000 dollars a game) than maybe that's saying something.

It's also pretty easy to look like a defensive coach when you have Chris Pronger, Scott Niedermeyer and company. Let's see with a full season whether this guy can translate success with good players on good teams to good defence on weaker teams.

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12-06-2012, 01:49 PM
  #38
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IMO, Komi will be given every chance to be on the bottom pair.
At worse they can use a little toughness.

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12-06-2012, 01:57 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by The Blue Devil View Post
Clear space for what?

Komi played great hockey before coming to the Leafs and playing Wilson's system. He also picked up his play instantly when Carlyle came in, mainly because that's the kind of system that he was used to. It's not unreasonable to assume that Komi can improve his play in a more structured system where he won't be required to move his feet as much.

FYI, as much as I like Eakins and what he's done for the Marlies, at this moment he is no where near the coach that Carlyle is. I'm also pretty sure a former Norris winner might be able to throw some helpful tips Komi's way.
He has always been a slow skater who can't handle the puck to save his life, but he used to be a fan favourite because he was big, physical and charismatic. There was a time when he was a solid top 4 dman, but that was 5-6 seasons ago. For the last 4 seasons (his last season in Montreal, and his 3 seasons with us) he has played pretty poor hockey, I doubt he's going to magically turn it around. He's been a #7 dman recently, I can see him sort of turning it around to become a good bottom pairing dman, but he'd still be massively overpaid.

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12-06-2012, 02:27 PM
  #40
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Gunnarson-Phaneuf
Gardiner-??
Liles-Holzer
------------------

Phaneuf- Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Holzer
Liles- Komiserak

I could be wrong but hasn't the RFA deadline passed (Dec 1st) meaning that the RFA's who aren't signed cannot play until the following season? If so then Franson is ruled out.

I think a wildcard here is Rielly, if he has a solid camp and stays that could make things very interesting for the D core roster.

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12-06-2012, 02:47 PM
  #41
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On defence the organizational aims should be to protect Reilly (and the other prospect D), increase Franson's time and maximize asset exchange for Komisarek.

Play Komisarek in a 5/6 role until the trade deadline, pray he plays like his best days in Montreal and move him to the highest bidder for a draft pick.

Expectations outside of that in a shortened season seem reaching otherwise.

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12-06-2012, 02:55 PM
  #42
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I could be wrong but hasn't the RFA deadline passed (Dec 1st) meaning that the RFA's who aren't signed cannot play until the following season? If so then Franson is ruled out.
There's no CBA heh..

That was the term under the old one, but it's obviously not applicable. There will be some sort of transition rule for this year for RFA's and then going forward I'd guess that rule (be it precisely that date or not) would then apply again in subsequent years in some form or another.

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12-06-2012, 05:29 PM
  #43
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Could Mark Fraser be an option? He seems pretty solid for the Marlies this year. Not exactly memorable from his Devil days, so I can't recall what his NHL game is like. From perusing his career stats, he played bottom pairing minutes with a okay plus/minus. Not sure why he was bounced around between Nhl and AHL. Jersey did have a pretty good defense group, maybe he just didn't gel? If someone could enlighten me that would be great. Plays a solid ,steady game (with the Marlies at least.), would add good toughness to the lineup. He isn't afraid to make or take a hit, and plays the right side, of I'm not mistaken. Not to mention he'd be a much cheaper option than Komi. Holzer fits this mold as well, but plays the left side I believe. Ranger could also regain the promise he showed on his first stint and fit in somewhere.

Gunnarsson Phaneuf
Gardiner Franson
Liles Komi/Fraser (dependent on dumping Komi on someone)
Holzer

Good, but certainly not great. Rielly will add another interesting dynamic to this group. He has potential to be a top pairing guy, so that would slot everyone down a role, improving the overall group. Although I certainly don't expect and 18 y/o to make the top pairing in his rookie season, but into the future. He may make a case for himself much like Gardiner did where he s just too good to send back to juniors (Marlies in yards case).

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12-06-2012, 05:52 PM
  #44
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I'm going to add one point about Komi: while I think he's clearly overpaid (Aaron Rome just signed for $1.5 mil/year to play a similar role, Komi should make around $1.5-2 mil/year), he's still a better player than some of the other #6/7 dman options that people are throwing out (like Holzer, Kostka, Fraser, etc.). *IF* we don't need the cap space for another specific move, and *IF* we would have to add to move Komi (i.e. Komi and a 2nd for junk), then we should probably just keep him. He will become easier and easier to move as his deal gets closer to expiring. I would only want to add sweetener to move Komi if it was to make room for a specific deal. For example, if we made a big offer to someone like Getzlaf next offseason, and needed to clear cap space, THEN we could try to trade Komi + sweetener for trash. However, there's no point in trying to move Komi unless/until we actually need the cap space. Simply replacing Komi with someone like Holzer, Kostka or Fraser will not improve the team.

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Old
12-06-2012, 06:11 PM
  #45
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sucks if we lose franson

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12-06-2012, 07:03 PM
  #46
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sucks if we lose franson
We did for this year, but the Rangers lost Del Zotto and a couple of other teams lost better players too. Can't name them off the top of my head.

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12-06-2012, 08:25 PM
  #47
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We did for this year, but the Rangers lost Del Zotto and a couple of other teams lost better players too. Can't name them off the top of my head.
Why would we have lost Franson?

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12-06-2012, 08:53 PM
  #48
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Why would we have lost Franson?
I think Franson said that he intended to stay in Europe for the rest of the year no matter what happens with the NHL.

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12-06-2012, 08:59 PM
  #49
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I think Franson said that he intended to stay in Europe for the rest of the year no matter what happens with the NHL.
Hadn't heard that one. I know he signed a year deal that initially was reported as not having an out for the NHL, but was later clarified that it did. But he said he's staying that's a diffirent ballgame.

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12-06-2012, 09:31 PM
  #50
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We did for this year, but the Rangers lost Del Zotto and a couple of other teams lost better players too. Can't name them off the top of my head.
PK Subban is another top RFA lost for the year. Darren Millard and him are joking around on twitter about him working on sportsnet lol.

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