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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIII: "The 11th Hour" Edition

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:39 PM
  #776
Leetch3
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Originally Posted by Ih8theislanders View Post
The 5% variance would mean the salary can't anymore than 5% year by year, no? Wasn't that one of their more pressing issues? Just get them to agree to that and drop the year limit.
imo that is the key proposal about contracts. if you can't vary by more than 5% per year than its impossible to make a kovalchuk-type contract with fact years. this rule pretty much makes all of the other contract rules and limits redundant

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12-06-2012, 02:40 PM
  #777
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If the mediators left the first time because they were too far apart, bringing them back might mean a fair amount of progress has been made.

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12-06-2012, 02:41 PM
  #778
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“@aaronward_nhl: Further attrition to the NHLPA side, David Backes has left the CBA meetings. #TSN”

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12-06-2012, 02:42 PM
  #779
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
my opinion: i think union wants mediators to move this along while holding Bettman and Fehr back from creating a stall over dicey issues

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:42 PM
  #780
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If the mediators left the first time because they were too far apart, bringing them back might mean a fair amount of progress has been made.
true. its not necessarily a bad thing that they want them to bring in. maybe they think that enough progress was made on certain issues that now the mediator can help them close the gap the rest of the way.

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12-06-2012, 02:43 PM
  #781
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I guess. But if they'd really rather make no money because they can't prevent themselves from paying stupid amounts of money, maybe they should just cancel the season.
"Prevent themselves" is a pretty simplistic argument. Just like with the cap-circumventing deals they can have a decisive disadvantage if they indeed do "prevent themselves" while others don't.

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12-06-2012, 02:43 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
“@aaronward_nhl: Further attrition to the NHLPA side, David Backes has left the CBA meetings. #TSN”
How vital is Backes. Seems to me like he isn't one of the hardliners or go to guys based on this proces.

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12-06-2012, 02:46 PM
  #783
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I saw Marty St. Louis and another player(It looked like Mathieu Darche from looking at the headshots of the players who has attended the meetings)walking towards the Westin on 43rd. Two blocks later I saw David Backes making his way towards the hotel. He is one big dude. He had a carry on bag with him. Maybe he is going home early. The PA are having internal meetings this morning.
Quote:
Further attrition to the NHLPA side, David Backes has left the CBA meetings
https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...73450306158592

E5

I saw Backes walking on 7th and 45th this morning. He saw my knit Rangers cap.

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12-06-2012, 02:47 PM
  #784
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E5

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12-06-2012, 02:48 PM
  #785
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...73450306158592

E5

I saw Backes walking on 7th and 45th this morning. He saw my knit Rangers cap.
LOL RB with the sarcasm, wonderful.

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12-06-2012, 02:48 PM
  #786
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Haha good stuff.

The real issue (I can see) with mediation is what does this due to the timetable. When is the earliest it could happen? Mid next week? Tack on another week or so after they ge thrown out or to finalize things?

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12-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  #787
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How vital is Backes. Seems to me like he isn't one of the hardliners or go to guys based on this proces.
None of these guys are vital.

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12-06-2012, 02:49 PM
  #788
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And MLB doesn't have term limits, nor a salary cap. And yet nearly all of the teams post operating profits (27 of 30). Term limited contracts are not a prerequisite to a successful league or profitable teams.

It's fiscal irresponsibility on the part of management that drives these massive deals. They think, "We have to spend big bucks to compete!" when in fact they don't. Smart utilization of resources is what makes a consistent winner. But these guys in front offices across the league get into bidding wars and piss themselves. Then they try to correct their idiocy by making rules that state they can only act stupid to a certain degree. At the expense of the players, of course.
The baseball model might be profitable..... if you are willing to let about half of the NHL's franchises be the Minnesota Twins where they have no shot of ever winning anything.

I'll take the NFL or NBA's model.

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12-06-2012, 02:50 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Haha good stuff.

The real issue (I can see) with mediation is what does this due to the timetable. When is the earliest it could happen? Mid next week? Tack on another week or so after they ge thrown out or to finalize things?
I want a deal by Friday, otherwise just cancel the season. 40-something games is poor at this point. If you can get this far and then have a stalemate like this then screw it.

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12-06-2012, 02:51 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
None of these guys are vital.
Because in the end it comes down to the Big 4.

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12-06-2012, 02:53 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...73450306158592

E5

I saw Backes walking on 7th and 45th this morning. He saw my knit Rangers cap.
Haha your the best!

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:58 PM
  #792
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I felt like telling Backes to get a deal done. He had his carry on with him. I knew he was going home. Toews and Craig Adams(Pitt)went home yesterday. All three of the guys are vocal about the labor stuff. Backes isn't as militant as Toews. Adams is Pitt's player rep. They all left to go home. Stay here to finish the deal. What's more important? The NHL money puts food on their table. These guys are too much.

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12-06-2012, 03:01 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
The baseball model might be profitable..... if you are willing to let about half of the NHL's franchises be the Minnesota Twins where they have no shot of ever winning anything.

I'll take the NFL or NBA's model.
No shot of ever winning anything? Is that different in the NFL? It sure as hell isn't in the NBA, which is constantly dominated by the same handful of teams. Let's see how many different teams have won titles in the past 20 years:

NFL: 13
MLB: 11
NBA: 8
NHL: 13

???

Seems like with the exception of the NBA, each league is pretty competitively balanced.

EDIT: As I fear that I'm taking us off track, I'll bring it back to my initial point--contract length limits are unnecessary, especially with a small yearly deviance cap. I'm not advocating for the baseball model, simply illustrating that a lack of contract length limits hasn't been detrimental to the competitive balance of that sport. The "broken" system in the NHL has been just as successful as any other system when it comes to allowing numerous teams to succeed. Capping contract lengths won't suddenly make poor teams profitable, and it won't make them more competitive.

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Last edited by nyr2k2: 12-06-2012 at 03:14 PM.
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12-06-2012, 03:05 PM
  #794
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“@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA Apparently mediators are available for today, but NHL would have to consent first and mediators would have to travel from DC”

“@KatieStrangESPN: #CBA Regardless, next meeting between 2 sides -- if it still happens this afternoon -- won't likely involve one. NHLPA still mtg internally”

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12-06-2012, 03:07 PM
  #795
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Toronto's Larry Tannenbaum has left New York City and will not be participating in the days CBA talks.

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12-06-2012, 03:09 PM
  #796
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Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Toronto's Larry Tannenbaum has left New York City and will not be participating in the days CBA talks.
Bleh. Where are these guys shuffling off to?

Tannenbaum has more to gain by playing hockey than anyone

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12-06-2012, 03:10 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger
Toronto's Larry Tannenbaum has left New York City and will not be participating in the days CBA talks.
That's no bueno.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:11 PM
  #798
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Bleh. Where are these guys shuffling off to?

Tannenbaum has more to gain by playing hockey than anyone
Dolan is going to take his place.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:16 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
No shot of ever winning anything? Is that different in the NFL? It sure as hell isn't in the NBA, which is constantly dominated by the same handful of teams. Let's see how many different teams have won titles in the past 20 years:

NFL: 13
MLB: 11
NBA: 8
NHL: 13

???

Seems like with the exception of the NBA, each league is pretty competitively balanced.
Not only winning titles. The NFL and NBA simply don't have black hole franchises that do not compete like the MLB does. You would get that but worse if the NHL continued to move towards the MLB product.

The NBA has had a couple that are horribly run but it's not due to lack of income so much.

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:18 PM
  #800
RGY
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Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
The NHL has kept backing off. But at some point, it will stop and this will be best deal players can get. They must not misjudge that point.


I agree. Take a deal before you lose more.

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
NHLPA feels mediators could help get deal done. NHL not convinced.

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