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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Has Russia overtaken the #1 spot in World Hockey?

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Old
12-06-2012, 03:50 PM
  #351
Slimmy
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Me too.

USA > Russia, overall.
That's bold. Or ignorant.

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12-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
That's bold. Or ignorant.
That I feel that the USA is better than Russia at hockey overall? Sorry but I don't feel that a bunch of high flying forwards make you a better hockey nation. Entertaining, sure, but not better.

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12-06-2012, 03:53 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
Me too.

USA > Russia, overall.
Top to bottom you are absolutely right. The US is way underrated by Europeans. It is no fluke that they have made it to the finals in 4 of the last 7 best on best tournaments. By comparison Russia, Czech and Sweden has each made it to one final in that time.

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12-06-2012, 03:57 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
That I feel that the USA is better than Russia at hockey overall? Sorry but I don't feel that a bunch of high flying forwards make you a better hockey nation. Entertaining, sure, but not better.
Lol?? Really?

Winning makes you better..

USA is not exactly known for winning many hockey tournaments. Unless you count the Mighty Ducks team from that movie.

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12-06-2012, 03:59 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Lol?? Really?

Winning makes you better..

USA is not exactly known for winning many hockey tournaments. Unless you count the Mighty Ducks team from that movie.
What does this tell you?

Quote:
The US is way underrated by Europeans. It is no fluke that they have made it to the finals in 4 of the last 7 best on best tournaments. By comparison Russia, Czech and Sweden has each made it to one final in that time.

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12-06-2012, 04:01 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Lol?? Really?

Winning makes you better..

USA is not exactly known for winning many hockey tournaments. Unless you count the Mighty Ducks team from that movie.
Dude Russia has won 0 major mens tournaments, and the USSR won one over 30 years ago. Are you serious?

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12-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
What does this tell you?
That tells me that you don't know the difference between winning tournaments and making the finals?? lol

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12-06-2012, 04:04 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
That tells me that you don't know the difference between winning tournaments and making the finals?? lol
You do realize they have won more major tournaments than Russia right?

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12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
That tells me that you don't know the difference between winning tournaments and making the finals?? lol
I forgot about Russias amazing history of winning major best on best tournaments....

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12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #360
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Absolutely Agree. I've been to a few World Championships in Europe, 3 actually. The hockey was crap, but drinking and partying with the Latvians was a blast.
Not sure the hockey was crap, but I agree 100% on the 2nd part.

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12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Dude Russia has won 0 major mens tournaments, and the USSR won one over 30 years ago. Are you serious?
oh so now we're only considering what's recent to make it 0?

But ye, I mean- Russia/USSR having won something like 3 times as many medals in international competitions must mean nothing.

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12-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
The US is way underrated by Europeans. It is no fluke that they have made it to the finals in 4 of the last 7 best on best tournaments. By comparison Russia, Czech and Sweden has each made it to one final in that time.
What?

Sweden has 2 olympic golds and a bronze during that time period, Czech has 1 gold and a bronze, Russia has 1 silver and 1 bronze. Obviously you choose to only include the last canada cup, in which USA was the runner up, but isn't that a bit too distant anyways? Should either include all canada cups or none, but oh wait, I forgot runner ups before that was Soviet and Sweden, and that would have hurt your case even more.

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12-06-2012, 04:07 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by petro points View Post
thats the na mentality brainwashed by nhl hype created by our media. 'your team' to you is the team of your city while it is "the nation" to fans of most other major sports.
+1


...

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12-06-2012, 04:08 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by daver View Post
Name me another major sport that has an annual world championship? Football, basketball, rugby, track and field, cricket? It's not feasible. Maybe if the WHC were every four years you could get up on your pedestal and complain about a lack of accommodation
The bolded sports feature international matches and competition all the time. Pro leagues and clubs in those sports accommodate national teams constantly. For the record I don't have a whole lot of interest in modeling hockey after those sports. I just wanted to point out the majority of the sports (and no idea how you can use T&F as any type of parallel with hockey) you listed aren't helping your arguement in the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
Absolutely Agree. I've been to a few World Championships in Europe, 3 actually. The hockey was crap, but drinking and partying with the Latvians was a blast.
I know its all sujective and opinion but I never understand why so many people will dismiss the WC as crap but go totally gaga over the WJC. Many of the players who appear in the WJC will never be good enough to play in the WC, not to mention the very different stages of career (if the junior player even has a career) the two groups of players would usually be at.

Obviously the WC is missing a lot of talent but it also features a lot of talent. The level of play and talent on the ice, especially during the later stages of the tournamet is generally very high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
What would you think of rebranding the World Championships as the European Championships, being primarily geared towards the top Euro players who play in the Euro leagues? This would basically take Canada, the US and the NHL out of the equation yet still leave the annual tournament that fans in Europe like yourself want. I think that would do a lot to get everyone past the NHL/NA vs IIHF/Europe disagreement that has dragged on for all these years.
I am thinking one of the first national federations to say no to that idea would be Canada's. Also not really sure what stopping players who are available and want to play from participating would accomplish other than perhaps (but probably not) cutting down on tedious discussions like this on message boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
I feel since the Olympics now allow NHL players, the WHC should run counter rotation to the Games. 2010 Olympics, 2012 WHC, 2014 Olympics. The WHC also needs to be held after the playoffs. I can see injury worries for many players so close to training camp.

I think a yearly WHC waters it down and takes away from the hype for both fans and players.
I agree with some of your points and in theory this is a good idea but in practice I am not sure...

Hockey in July (and up against a major Internationa soccer tournament)? Are players who just finished 4 rounds of playoffs really going to want to go play more hockey? Are players who didn't make the playoffs and haven't played a competitive game since early April going to want to interrupt the middle of their summer to play a high level tournament? European leagues are generally totally done by late April so like NHL guys who missed the playoffs or were bounced in the first they would be sitting around and waiting for a while. The yearly WC tournaments are probably the only thing that keeps the sport relevant or even viable in smaller hockey countries so getting rid of that could be a huge blow to those countries.

Not saying it couldn't work but just pointing out some things that may have to be considered.


Last edited by CoolForumNamePending: 12-06-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
oh so now we're only considering what's recent to make it 0?

But ye, I mean- Russia/USSR having won something like 3 times as many medals in international competitions must mean nothing.
You and I might have a different definition for recent. I'm sorry, but international medals mean nothing in determining who is on top unless the vast majority of the top players attended those tournaments.

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12-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
You do realize they have won more major tournaments than Russia right?
You do realize that Russia/USSR has won 26 Gold medals to US's 5 in half it's existence in hockey on international stage? World Championship is a minor tournament?? Olympics are a minor tournament??

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12-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
agree that the WHC should not be every year .. but.. every 4 years that it is on, the NHL should have a break in its schedule allowing the best players to be part of this. Get rid of the All star game(farce) that year and extend the break calling it WHC break.
Won't ever happen because the All star game makes the NHL a lot of money, and the World Championships don't make them any. That said I'd love to see a two year schedule of Olympics/World Cup/Olympics/World Cup etc.

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12-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #368
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Not sure the hockey was crap, but I agree 100% on the 2nd part.
Oh man, 06 in Riga! It was the best... but seriously dude! I have little patience for big ice euro hockey! Snore fest. but I enjoyed the 07 Canadian gold medal in Moscow..and Rick Nash's amazing goal against the Finns... I was 50 feet away.

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12-06-2012, 04:10 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
You do realize that Russia/USSR has won 26 Gold medals to US's 5 in half it's existence in hockey on international stage? World Championship is a minor tournament?? Olympics are a minor tournament??
Yes the WC and pre 98 OG are minor tournaments.

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12-06-2012, 04:12 PM
  #370
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Oh man, 06 in Riga! It was the best... but seriously dude! I have little patience for big ice euro hockey! Snore fest. but I enjoyed the 07 Canadian gold medal in Moscow..and Rick Nash's amazing goal against the Finns... I was 50 feet away.
I bet the tournament in Riga was awesome. I still remember my introduction to the phenomenon that is Latvian hockey fans. It's up there on par with other notable inappropriate first time experiences.

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12-06-2012, 04:14 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
What?

Sweden has 2 olympic golds and a bronze during that time period, Czech has 1 gold and a bronze, Russia has 1 silver and 1 bronze. Obviously you choose to only include the last canada cup, in which USA was the runner up, but isn't that a bit too distant anyways? Should either include all canada cups or none, but oh wait, I forgot runner ups before that was Soviet and Sweden, and that would have hurt your case even more.
If you were a fan of the Olympic hockey pre 1998 then good on ya, but if you think those tournaments in any way reflected which nations were the top hockey nations then you are delusional beyond help.

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12-06-2012, 04:15 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I bet the tournament in Riga was awesome. I still remember my introduction to the phenomenon that is Latvian hockey fans. It's up there on par with other notable inappropriate first time experiences.
If you haven't been to the Spengler tournament in Davos, then I'd suggest you put that on top of your hockey bucket list. But I advise any Canadians or Americans venturing to the World Championships for the first time, seek out the Latvians. Get in with the Latvian crowd.

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12-06-2012, 04:16 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
You and I might have a different definition for recent. I'm sorry, but international medals mean nothing in determining who is on top unless the vast majority of the top players attended those tournaments.
You know what? Speaking of the best. Vast majority attended last year's WC, except Canada and US Players! Not Hockey Canada, who did invite them. It was the players who chose not to go. There were no VALID reasons for Canada not having their best. Those 2 nations showed up with their "AMAZING" depth and got their ***** kicked. Canada for it's 3rd year in a row!

In the end, I'm not delusional - Canada is #1 hockey nation, Overall! But not far and away so much from Russia. But to say that USA has all the sudden sprung out of nowhere in the 90's and overtaken the rich Soviet/Russian hockey traditions is completely absurd. They are top 4-5 hockey nation for sure, and also not far off but to say they are right behind Canada somehow is delusional for sure!

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12-06-2012, 04:17 PM
  #374
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What?

Sweden has 2 olympic golds and a bronze during that time period, Czech has 1 gold and a bronze, Russia has 1 silver and 1 bronze. Obviously you choose to only include the last canada cup, in which USA was the runner up, but isn't that a bit too distant anyways? Should either include all canada cups or none, but oh wait, I forgot runner ups before that was Soviet and Sweden, and that would have hurt your case even more.
Wasn't my post, I quoted. Sorry, add one more finals to the Sweds.

Bottom line is the USA is better currently and in recent history.

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12-06-2012, 04:19 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
If you were a fan of the Olympic hockey pre 1998 then good on ya, but if you think those tournaments in any way reflected which nations were the top hockey nations then you are delusional beyond help.
Nah it's fine, you keep on trucking I don't want to make you sad, I'm sure USA is great at comming second in tournaments with 8 place finishes inbetween, let me know when they actually do something though. They are very lucky the best on best tournaments are few and far between, so that one bad game can screw you over totally, or a hot goalie can take you to the finals. Everyone with half a brain knows USA would get destroyed in a best of 7 against Sweden or Russia.

Switzerland "almost" beat Canada due to Hiller last Olympics, would they be the best in the would if they did?

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