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Jan 6/13: CBA reached to end the Lockout. Rejoice! (Post#783)

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Old
12-06-2012, 02:08 PM
  #26
VeteranNetPresence
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NHLPA being unreasonable again. they've stalled this whole process and continue to do so

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12-06-2012, 02:10 PM
  #27
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I'm extremely confident we're going to have a season. The sides are far too close now to blow it all up, especially from the player's perspective. If you go back to square one from the PA side and dig in, wipe a whole year, you're essentially banking that de-certification works (it never has). If it doesn't, then the players are completely screwed.

The owners are in a far better position to put the squeeze on. There are only a handful of them, first and foremost, and they all have way more money than the players. They can afford to wait things out much longer than the players can. It wouldn't be long before a large section of players got fed up with not making a paycheque and would put the pressure on to get a deal done...A deal that, at that point, would be much, MUCH worse than what's on the table for the players now.

I share the sentiment of a few writers on twitter that while this last bit is going to be difficult, and while both sides may be unhappy, both sides know the finish line is within sight and that it would be foolish to wipe a season now instead of making what they almost have work.

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12-06-2012, 02:17 PM
  #28
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Decertification worked for the NFL in the early 90s. Several players sued their teams and won millions in damages. They were also declared to be UFAs which is something that didn't exist in the NFL at the time. After that happened the league came back to the table with more favorable terms and the NFLPA re-certified to ratify the deal.

Though they played without a union for several seasons because court cases take forever. So I don't see the NHL playing out the same way.

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12-06-2012, 02:26 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Decertification worked for the NFL in the early 90s. Several players sued their teams and won millions in damages. They were also declared to be UFAs which is something that didn't exist in the NFL at the time. After that happened the league came back to the table with more favorable terms and the NFLPA re-certified to ratify the deal.

Though they played without a union for several seasons because court cases take forever. So I don't see the NHL playing out the same way.
Comparing vastly different things as you said

The NFL rigging FA to prevent player movment/big payouts $$$ was why the players won in court. The Plan B FA model the NFL used was against law

NHLPA has no such legal basis to stake its case on

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12-06-2012, 02:27 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
NHLPA being unreasonable again. they've stalled this whole process and continue to do so
It's not like the NHL is being too reasonable either.

Backes and NYR's owner have walked out on CBA talks already, today's meeting sounds like a disaster.

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12-06-2012, 02:30 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
It's not like the NHL is being too reasonable either.

Backes and NYR's owner have walked out on CBA talks already, today's meeting sounds like a disaster.
Wasn't it TOR's owner that walked out?

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12-06-2012, 02:33 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Canuck View Post
It's not like the NHL is being too reasonable either.

Backes and NYR's owner have walked out on CBA talks already, today's meeting sounds like a disaster.
It was Toronto's owner. They haven't actually had a meeting today, either. The PA is meeting internally and has requested the mediators be brought back. They think it's close enough that the mediators can effectively end this now. I don't even think they need that, but whatever.

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12-06-2012, 02:34 PM
  #33
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DarrenDreger:
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Canadian owners Tannenbaum and Chipman have left the CBA talks in NYC.
Well this is wonderful news...

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12-06-2012, 02:36 PM
  #34
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I don't really think it matters. As long as there's a "moderates" presence in the room in guys like Burkle and Vinnik it should be okay.

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12-06-2012, 02:37 PM
  #35
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I don't really think it matters. As long as there's a "moderates" presence in the room in guys like Burkle and Vinnik it should be okay.
I'm hoping Jacobs is the next to leave, but that's never going to happen.

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12-06-2012, 02:46 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
NHLPA being unreasonable again. they've stalled this whole process and continue to do so
Yes! Damn those players for not bending over and just taking it from ownership. So unreasonable of them!

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12-06-2012, 02:54 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
NHLPA being unreasonable again. they've stalled this whole process and continue to do so
What are you they beng unreasonable about today? Are they stalling? Maybe, but is asking for a mediator a reasonable request? I would think so, and I think it means the NHLPA is looking at ways to bridge the final gap.

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12-06-2012, 03:13 PM
  #38
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Yes! Damn those players for not bending over and just taking it from ownership. So unreasonable of them!
if they took a vote on it the PA would accept ainec

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12-06-2012, 03:19 PM
  #39
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if they took a vote on it the PA would accept ainec
In your opinion. Mine differs. Besides, it only gets voted on when there is something to vote on and there is nothing to vote on yet.

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12-06-2012, 03:26 PM
  #40
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In your opinion. Mine differs. Besides, it only gets voted on when there is something to vote on and there is nothing to vote on yet.
mckenzie has been in contact with players and agents and he hinted pretty much the same thing. i would say my opinion is 100% right, and yours is 100% wrong.

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12-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #41
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mckenzie has been in contact with players and agents and he hinted pretty much the same thing. i would say my opinion is 100% right, and yours is 100% wrong.
Once again, only your opinion. You can toot your little horn when you present me with some actual evidence.

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12-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #42
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mckenzie has been in contact with players and agents and he hinted pretty much the same thing. i would say my opinion is 100% right, and yours is 100% wrong.
Because there are more grinders than superstars in the league. Grinders don't get 5 year + deals, stars do.

It would be silly for the 'grinders' of the PA to sign off on something that kills the stars. The stars are the reason the average salary is $2.4m, and that you can make over a million bucks to play as a 7/8 d-man (Andrew Alberts anyone).

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12-06-2012, 03:33 PM
  #43
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mckenzie has been in contact with players and agents and he hinted pretty much the same thing.
Sure if the players he talked to were Hamrlik & Neuvirth.

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12-06-2012, 03:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Because there are more grinders than superstars in the league. Grinders don't get 5 year + deals, stars do.

It would be silly for the 'grinders' of the PA to sign off on something that kills the stars. The stars are the reason the average salary is $2.4m, and that you can make over a million bucks to play as a 7/8 d-man (Andrew Alberts anyone).
Plus, 1) nobody pays the exorbitent ticket prices to watch plugs and plumbers, and 2) The better deals the star players get, the better off the plumbers will do. One only has to look at some of the stupid money thrown at fringe players in recent years.

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12-06-2012, 03:38 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Because there are more grinders than superstars in the league. Grinders don't get 5 year + deals, stars do.

It would be silly for the 'grinders' of the PA to sign off on something that kills the stars. The stars are the reason the average salary is $2.4m, and that you can make over a million bucks to play as a 7/8 d-man (Andrew Alberts anyone).
yeah no kidding, a union is supposed to represent ALL of the players not just the superstars. so if most want a vote than they should do a vote

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12-06-2012, 03:45 PM
  #46
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What are you they beng unreasonable about today? Are they stalling? Maybe, but is asking for a mediator a reasonable request? I would think so, and I think it means the NHLPA is looking at ways to bridge the final gap.
Nah, asking for a mediator is being unreasonable. After all, what do mediators do? Wasteful things like mediate.

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12-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #47
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Nah, asking for a mediator is being unreasonable. After all, what do mediators do? Wasteful things like mediate.
was it helpful last week? did it work for the NBA?

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12-06-2012, 03:53 PM
  #48
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was it helpful last week?
Was Bettman or Fehr there this time? No, situation is different - it's just owners & players (though Jacobs is still there - the guy pulling Bettman's strings).

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12-06-2012, 03:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
I'm extremely confident we're going to have a season. The sides are far too close now to blow it all up, especially from the player's perspective. If you go back to square one from the PA side and dig in, wipe a whole year, you're essentially banking that de-certification works (it never has). If it doesn't, then the players are completely screwed.

The owners are in a far better position to put the squeeze on. There are only a handful of them, first and foremost, and they all have way more money than the players. They can afford to wait things out much longer than the players can. It wouldn't be long before a large section of players got fed up with not making a paycheque and would put the pressure on to get a deal done...A deal that, at that point, would be much, MUCH worse than what's on the table for the players now.

I share the sentiment of a few writers on twitter that while this last bit is going to be difficult, and while both sides may be unhappy, both sides know the finish line is within sight and that it would be foolish to wipe a season now instead of making what they almost have work.
That's the way I see it playing out as well. There's been a lot of discussion about fairness. Negotiations are rarely about fairness. They're about leverage and the owners have most of it. The potential negatives of bad press aside, there's really little incentive for the owners to demand any less than the Moon (which it appears they're going to more or less get).

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12-06-2012, 03:55 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Barney Gumble View Post
Was Bettman or Fehr there this time? No, situation is different (though Jacobs is still there - the guy pulling Bettman's strings).
bettman and fehr being present in mediation has literally no bearing on anything. mediation is a total waste of time, and many of the sports analysts share that sentiment.

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