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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

WJC Tournament Predictions

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Old
12-06-2012, 04:47 PM
  #76
Garl
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Originally Posted by cheerupmurray View Post
Seriously, Swedens forward-crop looks good, it's our goalies and defense, that is the big question mark. For example a player like Viktor Arvidsson, that you probably never heard of have the skill to make some real damage against junior opponents on big ice. The reason he is not drafted is because he had his breaktrough this year and 5'9'' swedes never get drafted. To judge this forward crop from where they where drafted and disregard the comments from swedish posters that watch these players all the time, seems a bit strange to me. Of course it would have been great to see Zibanejad on this team, but as perry2perry keep telling you, we actually have a more skilled forward lineup than last years team that won gold. This team perhaps lacks a Johan Larsson though, a great leader.

It was always a bit strange that it was the swedish 1992's that won the gold considering the 1993's and 1994's have always been considered more talented, especially when it comes to forwards (well Landeskog is a big exception).

Nothing strange really. Remeber how good was 1988 team?

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12-06-2012, 04:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Would Kucherov not be elite? If you include Barkov, then why not Nichushkin. What about Slepyshev?
Really?

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12-06-2012, 05:04 PM
  #78
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Really?
Yes

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12-06-2012, 05:06 PM
  #79
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Canada not only wins when there is a lockout and we have all of our best juniors but they destroy the competition by a significant margin. 1995 in Red Deer was a romp scoring 49 goals and going 7-0. 2005 was an even greater team. It was honestly like watching bantam hockey. I am used to Canada beating Norway or Belarus 8-1 and 9-1 but when we are doing it to Sweden and Finland that's another story. Then to smoke the Russians 6-1 in the Gold medal game. That team outshot the opposition in a way I've never seen and if you look at that roster I don't think I've ever seen a World Junior team with so much NHL success on their plate. The 2005 team was never behind in a single game, which is insane.

So yeah, if the lockout stays until January then I can't see Canada losing. They just never do in this situation, they don't even come close to losing. Nugent-Hopkins almost won the rookie of the year in the NHL and he's back to playing with a bunch of kids. I like those odds. So I pick Canada and somewhere they meet the Russians, maybe the Gold medal game.

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12-06-2012, 05:06 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Would Kucherov not be elite? If you include Barkov, then why not Nichushkin. What about Slepyshev?
I was not being sarcastic when I said feel free to add to the list. I was asking for an opinion.

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12-06-2012, 05:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
I was not being sarcastic when I said feel free to add to the list. I was asking for an opinion.
And I was asking if you would consider them to be Elite? I do, among others, but I think the tournament will show that.

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12-06-2012, 05:21 PM
  #82
Garl
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Yes
Kucherov is a nice skilled player, who doesn't belong to this list. If he is, well teall me why. Why he should be ahead of guys like Teravainen, Collberg and Sorensen who are not on the list?

Barkov=Nichushkin. I mean, come on, that's bad even for a russian homer. Barkov is a star in SM-Liiga, and will probably play at senior WC this year. Nichushkin isn't even a star in VHL.

And Slepyshev? Undrafted player who didn't improve much from last year? He isn't even a lock to make the team, he isn't the best junior on his KHL team and you call him elite. With the same sucess we can call just everybody on canadian or swedish roster elite.

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12-06-2012, 05:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Garl View Post
Kucherov is a nice skilled player, who doesn't belong to this list. If he is, well teall me why. Why he should be ahead of guys like Teravainen, Collberg and Sorensen who are not on the list?

Barkov=Nichushkin. I mean, come on, that's bad even for a russian homer. Barkov is a star in SM-Liiga, and will probably play at senior WC this year. Nichushkin isn't even a star in VHL.

And Slepyshev? Undrafted player who didn't improve much from last year? He isn't even a lock to make the team, he isn't the best junior on his KHL team and you call him elite. With the same sucess we can call just everybody on canadian or swedish roster elite.
Kucherov, the guy who set a record for U18 in points and was better than Grigorenko. He had an excellent season last year by MHL. His raw talent is certainly up there. Fortunately his injury bug has little to do with his talent.

Have you seen Nichushkin play in KHL? The guy is a beast with the puck. I'll let the time tell that story. He surprised me, after a quiet season last year and few minutes, this guy jumped in VHL and became a scoring leader on his team. In under 15 games he made the KHL roster. A star in VHL? He didn't have enough time, he was so good for KHL- and I think he is just heating up. Going by draft prediction Barkov, (who also happens to be Russian) is considered top 3, and Nichushkin top 10. Throw away that Russian factor, he would be higher too.

Slepyshev, yet another victim of the Russian factor. I recommend you stop judging Russian players by their draft status. He was the best Junior on his KHL before he got injured, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Also the best LW for the U20 on Russia this year.

Garl, on top of your downplaying of KHL and the players, I think a lot of your information is seriously out of date.


Last edited by Fulcrum: 12-06-2012 at 05:39 PM.
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12-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
And I was asking if you would consider them to be Elite? I do, among others, but I think the tournament will show that.
I don't know enough about European junior level players. I can only go mostly on reports from scouts and such since I don't have access to their games online.

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12-06-2012, 06:04 PM
  #85
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1.canada
2.russia
3.usa

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Old
12-06-2012, 06:15 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Fulcrum View Post
Kucherov, the guy who set a record for U18 in points and was better than Grigorenko. He had an excellent season last year by MHL. His raw talent is certainly up there. Fortunately his injury bug has little to do with his talent.

Have you seen Nichushkin play in KHL? The guy is a beast with the puck. I'll let the time tell that story. He surprised me, after a quiet season last year and few minutes, this guy jumped in VHL and became a scoring leader on his team. In under 15 games he made the KHL roster. A star in VHL? He didn't have enough time, he was so good for KHL- and I think he is just heating up. Going by draft prediction Barkov, (who also happens to be Russian) is considered top 3, and Nichushkin top 10. Throw away that Russian factor, he would be higher too.

Slepyshev, yet another victim of the Russian factor. I recommend you stop judging Russian players by their draft status. He was the best Junior on his KHL before he got injured, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there. Also the best LW for the U20 on Russia this year.

Garl, on top of your downplaying of KHL and the players, I think a lot of your information is seriously out of date.
Elite player is a star in my opinion. Kucherov is not a star, you can find a lot of players of his calibre on other teams. What makes him better than guys like Collberg, Teravainen, Sorensen(to whom he lost a battle for a spot in Quebec, despite his chemistry with Grigorenko). He isn't worse than Nick, and was traded partly because he is older, but still.
Good luck to him, and no injuries in future of course.

Nichushkin isn't close to Barkov at this point. Once again, how close is he to National team for example? Barkov is very close. Russian factor has nothing to do with the rankings, actual draft may.
His play in KHL? When did you had the time to be so impressed? He plaed several games with 7-8 minutes of ice time. Scored 2 points in 7 games. Yeah, that's Barkovs level(PPG in SM-Liiga). He's a talented sniper, but come on, it's like if somebody would have said in 2006 that P.Berglund is on the same level as N.Backstrom. Maybe in future, but at the moment absolutely not.

Slepyshev is worse than Zhafyarov IMO. Less talented at least. He's not a bad player, but he missed the draft not because of the russian factor. There were lesser guys drafted. Reason is that he is a mature guy who is not that far away from his ceiling. He's not a star on junior level. If he was a swede or canadian, he wouldn't been on the their roster at all. He's not a star even in his age group.

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12-07-2012, 03:41 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
In 17 years with the round robin and with QF, SF, and medal games, only once have 3 teams from the same pool placed Gold, Silver and Bronze, which was 2002. In the pool they finished Finland, Canada and Russia, but the medals result were the opposite with Russia grabbing gold and Finland Bronze.

I expect one of Sweden, Finland or Czech to medal. I'm predicting Finland.

Swiss upset of Canada in a lockout season is a pretty bold prediction...especially since they aren't even in the same pool. This could only happen in a medal round, but since you had Canada winning Bronze, this is makes zero sense.

I'll be cheering for the Czechs. They came close to a medal game last year.

If the NHL starts, it will bring Canada and Russia closer to the next four teams, but they will still be the favorites.
Ok, then Sweden ends 2n and US third.

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12-07-2012, 09:17 AM
  #88
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Gold: Canada

Silver: I don't care ... ........just kidding ..........of course I care, I want Russia to be the silver medalist haha

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:09 PM
  #89
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Lockout:

Canada
Russia
USA

No lockout.

Russia
USA
Sweden

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12-07-2012, 01:48 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by IHaveNoCreativity View Post
Lockout:

Canada
Russia
USA

No lockout.

Russia
USA
Sweden
The NHL call up list does have 12 Canadian roster camp players on it, plus RNH. I'm not sure how the NHL teams would handle this situation. Several of those call ups are a long shot at best to make their NHL clubs and are on that list for the experience of a NHL camp and a possible 9 game tryout. Considering that NHL clubs often lend these players to Canada for this tournament anyways, there are only maybe 5 that would actually be held by their club. RNH and Huberdeau would be my locks. Strome, Rielly and Jenner could step into weak rosters. Hamilton would step in on any other team, but Boston is pretty deep. Those are some high end guys to lose, but Canada has 4 top 10 picks from the upcoming NHL draft in MacKinnon, Drouin, Monahan and Shinkaruk who could step in. Probably only two make it right now and not necessarily in top two line roles. Now they would be able to, plus fringe squad members right now who are all PPG players in the CHL would step in too. Really, the squad would go from beating teams on average 6-1 to maybe 4-1 at worst.

The fact that you have USA improving in this situation is odd too. They only have Galchenyuk, Gibson and Noesen on recall, but only Galchenyuk would potentially make the NHL. Losing him would be devastating. Look what happened last year with no Jones or Galy...relegation round. USA probably only has maybe 3 or 4 players that will be high impact in the NHL. Jones, Galy and Trouba. No one that USA could attempt to replace him with is even half the player he would be for them.

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12-07-2012, 02:17 PM
  #91
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Gold - Russia
Silver- USA
Bronze- Sweden
Fourth- Canada

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12-07-2012, 05:53 PM
  #92
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Let's face it, we're having a lockout during this tournament. I'm glad for that reason but a contract signed on January 6th would be fine with me. So let's just assume there is a lockout because all signs point to a "yes".

I think Canada will almost be better served away from home. It almost seemed like the last three teams grabbed onto their sticks too tight and buckled under the pressure. Not to mention with a lockout that means NHL junior-aged players are playing and there is no way Hockey Canada can screw up the roster selections when this happens (I still cannot fathom Nugent-Hopkins cut from the team in 2011).

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12-07-2012, 05:59 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
The NHL call up list does have 12 Canadian roster camp players on it, plus RNH. I'm not sure how the NHL teams would handle this situation. Several of those call ups are a long shot at best to make their NHL clubs and are on that list for the experience of a NHL camp and a possible 9 game tryout. Considering that NHL clubs often lend these players to Canada for this tournament anyways, there are only maybe 5 that would actually be held by their club. RNH and Huberdeau would be my locks. Strome, Rielly and Jenner could step into weak rosters. Hamilton would step in on any other team, but Boston is pretty deep. Those are some high end guys to lose, but Canada has 4 top 10 picks from the upcoming NHL draft in MacKinnon, Drouin, Monahan and Shinkaruk who could step in. Probably only two make it right now and not necessarily in top two line roles. Now they would be able to, plus fringe squad members right now who are all PPG players in the CHL would step in too. Really, the squad would go from beating teams on average 6-1 to maybe 4-1 at worst.

The fact that you have USA improving in this situation is odd too. They only have Galchenyuk, Gibson and Noesen on recall, but only Galchenyuk would potentially make the NHL. Losing him would be devastating. Look what happened last year with no Jones or Galy...relegation round. USA probably only has maybe 3 or 4 players that will be high impact in the NHL. Jones, Galy and Trouba. No one that USA could attempt to replace him with is even half the player he would be for them.
JT Miller.

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12-07-2012, 07:41 PM
  #94
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1.Canada(lockout is a huge boost)
2.USA(really like this team on paper I think they will surprise)
3.Russia

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12-07-2012, 09:13 PM
  #95
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1.Canada(lockout is a huge boost)
2.USA(really like this team on paper I think they will surprise)
3.Russia
Very unlikely that Canada and USA play each other for the gold.

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12-07-2012, 09:54 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
JT Miller.
I don't think he will be elite in the NHL and neither do the Rangers mods on this board. He is listed as a 7.0C. So second line winger, but as a C could drop down two rankings.

I'm not saying he won't be an impact player for the team in the WJC. He should be among their best this year. USA just doesn't have great elite depth.

The team can still have a great showing too if they play a great system and gel well. Look at Canada's roster from 2006. Only Toews up front is a first liner in the NHL today and he was an undrafted underager going into that one. None of Bolland, Boyd, Bertram, Blunden, Chipchura, Cogliano, Comeau, Downie, Latendresse, O'Marra, Pouliot, or Pyatt are considered elite NHL talent. That TC did have some pretty great D in Staal, Letang, Bourdon, Barker, Pokuluk, Russell and Parent. Two of those guys are among the best in the NHL and who knows with Bourdon.

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12-07-2012, 11:34 PM
  #97
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I am assuming the lockout remains in effect...

Canada
Russia
USA

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12-08-2012, 12:03 AM
  #98
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Canada not only wins when there is a lockout and we have all of our best juniors but they destroy the competition by a significant margin. 1995 in Red Deer was a romp scoring 49 goals and going 7-0. 2005 was an even greater team. It was honestly like watching bantam hockey. I am used to Canada beating Norway or Belarus 8-1 and 9-1 but when we are doing it to Sweden and Finland that's another story. Then to smoke the Russians 6-1 in the Gold medal game. That team outshot the opposition in a way I've never seen and if you look at that roster I don't think I've ever seen a World Junior team with so much NHL success on their plate. The 2005 team was never behind in a single game, which is insane.

So yeah, if the lockout stays until January then I can't see Canada losing. They just never do in this situation, they don't even come close to losing. Nugent-Hopkins almost won the rookie of the year in the NHL and he's back to playing with a bunch of kids. I like those odds. So I pick Canada and somewhere they meet the Russians, maybe the Gold medal game.
Agreed although let's not get carried away. That 2005 team is a once in a generation team. It was kind of embarrassing seeing them destroy everybody. I loved it of course but the games were over by the second intermission. You can't say this version is as good or even close to as good as the 2005 team.

I still say though we will win gold. Having Nugent-Hopkins possibly would be huge along with Strome and Dougie Hamilton. Anything other than gold will be an utter failure IMO. Goaltending again will be a key spot for us. It hasn't been very good the last few years.

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12-08-2012, 01:32 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
I don't think he will be elite in the NHL and neither do the Rangers mods on this board. He is listed as a 7.0C. So second line winger, but as a C could drop down two rankings.

I'm not saying he won't be an impact player for the team in the WJC. He should be among their best this year. USA just doesn't have great elite depth.

The team can still have a great showing too if they play a great system and gel well. Look at Canada's roster from 2006. Only Toews up front is a first liner in the NHL today and he was an undrafted underager going into that one. None of Bolland, Boyd, Bertram, Blunden, Chipchura, Cogliano, Comeau, Downie, Latendresse, O'Marra, Pouliot, or Pyatt are considered elite NHL talent. That TC did have some pretty great D in Staal, Letang, Bourdon, Barker, Pokuluk, Russell and Parent. Two of those guys are among the best in the NHL and who knows with Bourdon.
Sorry I thought we were talking about NHL recalls. I don't think Miller is an elite prospect either, but then neither is Noesen.

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12-08-2012, 03:37 AM
  #100
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1. Finland
2. Canada
3. Czech
4. Russia
5. USA
6. Sweden

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