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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIII: "The 11th Hour" Edition

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Old
12-06-2012, 04:48 PM
  #851
RGY
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
Bettman is not in talks tonight. why? also, they are setting up a presser which usually happens at the END of the evening ...


Probably bad, but you just have that false hope they'll announce a deal. Obviously unlikely no one there apparently.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
... this indicates NHL feels it could be a very short meeting tonight which would not be a good sign. again, league unhappy w/union/mediator


Sounds like a tactic by the NHL to scare the NHLPA

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12-06-2012, 04:50 PM
  #852
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It's DECEMBER 6TH.

How much more time do they think they have. Stay and get the ****ing deal done.

Man up.

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12-06-2012, 04:51 PM
  #853
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Other Panaccio (Flyers reporter) the other big ones have been mostly quiet leading up to the meeting and currently.

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12-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #854
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
To be honest, I dont really know what you're arguing anymore.
I'm arguing that less money tied up in big name players means more money available for lesser players.

Often times, bad contracts are given out -- like Rick DiPietro's deal. In that case, the owners would love to re-allocate that money to other players. Most likely, PLURAL players, not just give out his contract to another superstar.

By cutting the length of time he can be paid, that means over that time, there is more money that will be paid to other players.

Since there are only a handful of players who get those kinds of deals, eliminating those deals will mean more money for the vast majority of other players.

Contract length caps... bad for Rick DiPietros and Brad Richardses.

Great for everyone else.

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I do agree that contract term lengths only effect the top 10% of players in the league. But where is it going to help the other players exactly? If anything it will drive contracts down for them.
No, it will not do that.

First, it hasn't done that in any other sport. NFL and NBA backup players more often than not get multi-year deals still. In fact, the vast majority of contracts signed in both leagues are not 1 year deals, they are multi-year deals.

Most teams in a competitive, healthy, profitable league spend up to the salary cap in an effort to win.

Therefore, when that money from a bad contract clears, they spend it elsewhere.

So the sooner you clear off a bad contract like DiPietros, the sooner it will get spent on other players.

So tell me why the NHLPA should be sticking up for the long term "security" of Rick DiPietro, when you could limit his contract at half the time, and then that money would be spent on other players besides Rick DiPietro (because you would surely agree, DiPietro wouldn't be resigned right now to the same money per year, right? So that money per year would be spent on other players).

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The longer deals of the past circumvented the cap to a degree and actually created MORE cap space on an annual basis for bottom 6 guys to get signed.
Maybe in a given year.

If you pay a guy $100 million over ten years, it's averaging 10 million a year. If you pay him a little now and a lot later, that frees up more now to spend on other guys, but prevents you from signing guys later. Simple math.

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12-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #855
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Chris Botta ‏@ChrisBottaNHL

48 hours later, Tuesday meeting exposed. It was a PR coup for Bettman - Burkle and Sid as saviors - and the PA bought it.
^
Botta is still pissed at NHL for how they didn't stop Isles from removing him

He has been the worst reporter to follow during entire course of lockout

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12-06-2012, 04:59 PM
  #856
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Boogaard was four. Toronto signed Orr for four. I'm just thinking of our guys and there are probably plenty more.

It depresses the market. Creates a new normal. Bottom six guys won't see three- and four-year deals anymore. Two years instead. The new normal will be shorter deals for all. I know you and Schmidt don't buy it but I'm convinced.

Cap the years at 8, maybe even 7, and it's not an issue. No more retirement contracts and no effect on the other guys. 5 years is lunacy.
Well, I would actually agree with you hat 7 years is a good length.

But the capping of years hasn't proven to had any effect of shortening contracts for other players in the NFL. I don't see why it would in the NHL either.

There will always be someone willing to overpay. If one team offers 3 years, well, another can offer a fourth year. Adding years to contracts has become part of the lure of free agency in both leagues, so why wouldn't it for the NHL?

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12-06-2012, 05:09 PM
  #857
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#CBA Meeting over. NHL contingent has left hotel

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12-06-2012, 05:11 PM
  #858
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“@Real_ESPNLeBrun: Bill Daly and NHL contingent have left hotel. They will have internal meeting with Gary Bettman and owners still in NYC.”

“@Real_ESPNLeBrun: League will get back to NHLPA in some form or another. Not clear if both sides will meet again or not tonight at this point”

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12-06-2012, 05:14 PM
  #859
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That just sounds awful.

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12-06-2012, 05:15 PM
  #860
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I know there will be ups and downs, but that sounds like a valley...

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Old
12-06-2012, 05:16 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I know there will be ups and downs, but that sounds like a valley...
LOL that's what i was thinking.

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12-06-2012, 05:20 PM
  #862
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Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
Bill Daly left the Westin and said he wasn't sure if he was coming back. The NHL wanted some answers and not the NHLPA asking for a mediator

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
it appears we have another breakdown or some stall in the talks. Union to speak shortly. Daly said he needed to confer with owners

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
don fehr and players coming down in 15 minutes. that's likely not good


effin A cotton

Fehr should just come down, chuckle, and say 'Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and **** you!'

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12-06-2012, 05:23 PM
  #863
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Those were all 3 year deals (minus Avery I think). I just don't see how a 5 year limit would affect them.
Bettman didn't anticipate 13 year deals as a response to 27 y/o ufa. That worked for the players. The point is we don't know how it will work for a few years. Over 35 deals were supposed to be done but there you have Doan and Whitney.

Based on history, GMs will find a new incentive to spice up a deal and 5 year deals with full NMCs will be standard.

All this stuff is commodities. Getting hung up on the outcome is not important. If the NHL wants it, bargain. If it won't impact players, why are they jeopardizing a deal for it? The NBA has a ridiculously low ufa age. That was for this 4/5 year deal the league is proposing. It seems like the league is offering 5/7 for not raising ufa.

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12-06-2012, 05:26 PM
  #864
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“@stevezipay: Don Fehr to address media shortly. To me, sounds like talks broke down, will probably have cooling-off period.”

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12-06-2012, 05:28 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Over 35 deals were supposed to be done but there you have Doan and Whitney.
No one ever though multiyear deals for 35+ players would be eliminated. One was signed 4 years into the CBA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
Based on history, GMs will find a new incentive to spice up a deal and 5 year deals with full NMCs will be standard.
They already are.

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12-06-2012, 05:28 PM
  #866
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“@Real_ESPNLeBrun: FYI Don Fehr's news conference in a few minutes will be carried live on TSN in Canada”

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12-06-2012, 05:29 PM
  #867
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Good lord.

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Old
12-06-2012, 05:30 PM
  #868
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“@DarrenDreger: PA made presentation today. Say time is now to make a deal. Say addressed league concerns.”

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12-06-2012, 05:31 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
@stevezipay: Don Fehr to address media shortly. To me, sounds like talks broke down, will probably have cooling-off period.
Good, a cooling-off period. That's what we need because negotiations are obviously red-hot.

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12-06-2012, 05:33 PM
  #870
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I'm sorry, but Fehr is just looking like a clown at this point. I keep wanting to pull for the PA (I actually agree with them fully on contract limits) but the entire way the process is unfolding (asking for mediation now? after it worked so well last week? and there are a few smaller hurdles left?) just seems so Mickey Mouse.

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12-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #871
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I'm sorry, but Fehr is just looking like a clown at this point. I keep wanting to pull for the PA (I actually agree with them fully on contract limits) but the entire way the process is unfolding (asking for mediation now? after it worked so well last week? and there are a few smaller hurdles left?) just seems so Mickey Mouse.
I agree. Keep him out. He seems to just want to prolong it. I think the PA threw him in today to stir crap up.

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12-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
“@DarrenDreger: PA made presentation today. Say time is now to make a deal. Say addressed league concerns.”
It might not be so terrible.

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
the other side of this is ... NHLPA may have made another counter offer, too for the league to consider. but NHL may not have gotten answers

Tim Panaccio ‏@tpanotchCSN
continuing ... NHL may not have gotten answers IT wanted to its proposal but instead got another offer. we should know soon ...

Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
Told NHLPA tabled another proposal tonight.Moved in some areas in hopes that it is enough to keep negotiations going. #TSN

Dan Tencer ‏@dantencer
Darren Dreger says the NHLPA was upset that Gary Bettman and the owners didn't show up to hear their presentation. Communication breakdown?

Sam Carchidi ‏@BroadStBull
“@JSportsnet: Fehr to speak soon on Connected on Sportsnet.”

Bruce Arthur ‏@bruce_arthur
They were pissed. RT @DarrenDreger: PA very disappointed Bettman and owners didn't attend todays meeting. 16 players, Fehrs represented PA.


Frustrating. NHL should get back in that damn room tonight. NHLPA convened all day today. They came back with a counter. Work with them NHL. Don't just send the goat in Bettman, get your ass in there.

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Old
12-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #873
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PA very disappointed Bettman and owners didn't attend todays meeting. 16 players, Don and Steve Fehr represented PA.
-Dreger

Oh grow up.

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Old
12-06-2012, 05:40 PM
  #874
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http://www.tsn.ca/live/player.aspx#v=759560&i=759560

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Old
12-06-2012, 05:40 PM
  #875
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@aaronward_nhl: The NHLPA counter was based off of the NHL's offer from yesterday's negotiations. #TSN

That's positive.

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