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The Lockout Thread: Good Things Come To Those Who Wait

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Old
12-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #851
Finlandia WOAT
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I bet there is a poison pill in here that Fehr knows the owners will never accept. So they reject this after 15 minutes, and Fehr plus the entire hockey world blames the owners for the lost season.

Or Fehr decided to stop applying pressure, and one of my 3 wild guesses was correct.

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12-06-2012, 07:02 PM
  #852
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cautiously optimistic

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12-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #853
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Fehr's coming back... (grits teeth nervously)

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12-06-2012, 07:21 PM
  #854
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no longer cautiously optimistic

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12-06-2012, 07:29 PM
  #855
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Fehr shows up to the meetings, and holds a series of "internal meetings" that put the NHL off for several hours.

He then demands a mediator, most likely knowing full well that there was no one on hand.

And when the owners go home thinking that they are back to the drawing board, Fehr turns around and puts out a proposal that (so far) is "90%" of the way there. And Fehr audaciously claims that they are "close".

No wonder the owners are ticked off. No wonder they rejected this proposal, ceased talks and removed "something" from the table.

He's really pissed off the owners now. Makes you wonder, if he just played it straight from this morning, we might be rejoicing hockey right now.

Question: How much "negotiating" has Fehr actually done? So far his only interest is to tick the owners off, and to staal negotiations for as long as possible. What is his end goal in this? Move the moderate owners to the hardcore union destroyers?

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12-06-2012, 07:31 PM
  #856
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman and Daly to address media shortly within half hour

This really pisses me off, but i want to hear the league's view on this first.

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12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #857
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We're in the endgame right now. Whoever comes out on top will be able to dictate how the new CBA looks.

The NHL responded to the PA's offer with "This is our final offer."

But I refuse to believe that the NHL would throw away money just to prove a point when an hour at the negotiating table could end this lockout.

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12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
Question: How much "negotiating" has Fehr actually done? So far his only interest is to tick the owners off, and to staal negotiations for as long as possible. What is his end goal in this? Move the moderate owners to the hardcore union destroyers?
Just curious as I haven't followed this nearly as closely as others. Based on what they actually had in 2011/2012 season, what have the owners "given" to the NHLPA in the negotiations so far?

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12-06-2012, 07:51 PM
  #859
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Just curious as I haven't followed this nearly as closely as others. Based on what they actually had in 2011/2012 season, what have the owners "given" to the NHLPA in the negotiations so far?
I don't know, I only started following closely after it picked up steam on Tuesday.

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12-06-2012, 07:58 PM
  #860
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Ok..thanks.

I haven't followed it closely as well. It seems to me that most of the movement from what they already "had" came from the players. My understanding is that they were receiving a disproportionate share of the money to start with, so they would have to move more to come to agreement, but I'm not sure the owners have really "given" anything yet. Yes, they moved from their initial position, but they never really had that.

I'm no fan of Fehr at all and fully realize the players would have to give up more of what they have for a deal to work out, but they are the ones giving up something the really have right now vs. the owners moving off of an opening offer (which they never had).

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12-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #861
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After rejecting the PA deal, Bettman said term limit on player contracts is so important to league it's "the hill we'll die on."

Why is this so hard for the players to give up? A good player gets job security at an exorbitant amount each year for up to five years. Why is that so bad? Pretty much every one of us out here in the real world would get fired if we didn't do our job at a high level. No guarantees in time or money. What makes the players so different that they think they should have over five years of monetary security whether they perform well or not? They don't deserve that. No one deserves that. You do your job and perform at a high level and you earn your money. Five years is more than reasonable for maximum contracts.

If this one small thing is what the players won't give up then they are going to get what they deserve. The league is going to reverse some of their concessions and the players will begrudgingly have to accept after the non-season is over.

This whole situation pisses me off. I don't know why I care any more.


Last edited by Psyduck: 12-06-2012 at 08:31 PM. Reason: addition of non-season
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12-06-2012, 08:29 PM
  #862
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From what I have heard, it's checkmate Fehr.

The emotion and "truth" of Gary's speech mean that he is not bluffing. If we lose this season, its all on Fehr. Gary, at least, "tried".

Take it to a vote, have the Union pass it, hold a press conference where you explain that you attempted to get what you wanted, but the owners are greedy evil carpetbaggers, then ride off into the sunset. Or blow this season up over what a few hours of negotiating could accomplish.

Fehr can't win. He either accepts the less than ideal offer, or he has the entire hockey population, all of the writers, and any player who has half a brain and watched the press conference turn on him for ending a season over next to nothing.

And not only that, but Gary will be seen as the savior of the season, and his speech will go down in history. I can't wait to see it.

Good work Gary!

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12-06-2012, 08:36 PM
  #863
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At this point I'm confused because the only thing we're hearing and the only opinions we can have decide who wins the PR battle. Tough to side with either side.

That said, **** you Fehr. Whether it's just good NHL PR, or you're actually a *******, I'm believing it.

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12-06-2012, 08:41 PM
  #864
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Sounds like the NHLPA and Fehr both got their ***** handed to them by Bettman.

Good. Hopefully now the players will wisen up and accept a deal and Donald Fehr will go away.

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12-06-2012, 08:49 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Ok..thanks.

I haven't followed it closely as well. It seems to me that most of the movement from what they already "had" came from the players. My understanding is that they were receiving a disproportionate share of the money to start with, so they would have to move more to come to agreement, but I'm not sure the owners have really "given" anything yet. Yes, they moved from their initial position, but they never really had that.

I'm no fan of Fehr at all and fully realize the players would have to give up more of what they have for a deal to work out, but they are the ones giving up something the really have right now vs. the owners moving off of an opening offer (which they never had).
Pretty much this. The owners are basing their "concessions" off one proposal to the next. The players are basing their "concessions" off what they had in the last CBA.

Only one is based off of what one side actually had in the first place.

That being said, Fehr pulling the **** he did today was the worst possible thing he could have done. Just absolutely nuclear.

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12-06-2012, 09:12 PM
  #866
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The thing is... who cares what anyone had before? That CBA is expired. It is dead. It was written in a totally different economic environment. Things have changed. 18 teams lost money. That is not good for the game. Players are not going to take buses and they won't be staying at the Motel 6. Player salary is out of control and must be addressed. I fully believe the owners started at 57/43 with every intention of ending up at 50/50 (same as NFL and NBA). Once both sides agreed on that - with the owners ponying up $300 million to soften the blow - I just KNEW we'd have a deal by now. But Fehr has no intention of giving in that easily. His ego won't allow it.

Fehr is a giant *********. He will be the villain when all is said and done. He will be the man that killed 2012-2013 (and rightly so).


ETA - ********* is a device that holds a solution for cleaning a ladies naughty parts.

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12-06-2012, 09:25 PM
  #867
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Like I said before, it seems all Fehr wants to do is be an instigator.

**** him.

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12-06-2012, 09:32 PM
  #868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaCaniac View Post
The thing is... who cares what anyone had before?
Um...I do believe the Players care.

I can't stand Fehr and agree that moving to 50/50 is the right point, but let's stop acting like the owners have given up a bunch to get to where they are today.

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12-06-2012, 09:40 PM
  #869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Um...I do believe the Players care.

I can't stand Fehr and agree that moving to 50/50 is the right point, but let's stop acting like the owners have given up a bunch to get to where they are today.
The reason the owners are pissed right now is because, during the negotiations of yesterday and today, the NHL made several concessions, the main of which was adding an additional 100 million dollars to "Make Whole" (which I still don't know what the **** it means, I think it was free money to the PA to improve the gap between the two CBA's), in exchange for concessions on contract length ("Contract length is the hill we will die on").

Fehr and the players took the "Make Whole" concession, and ran with it, but didn't put what the NHL wanted into the new proposal. It really pissed the NHL off.

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12-06-2012, 09:42 PM
  #870
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@adater: From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"


Holy smokes.

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12-06-2012, 09:44 PM
  #871
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@adater: From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"


Holy smokes.


Wasn't Dater pro player?

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12-06-2012, 09:47 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
The reason the owners are pissed right now is because, during the negotiations of yesterday and today, the NHL made several concessions, the main of which was adding an additional 100 million dollars to "Make Whole" (which I still don't know what the **** it means, I think it was free money to the PA to improve the gap between the two CBA's), in exchange for concessions on contract length ("Contract length is the hill we will die on").

Fehr and the players took the "Make Whole" concession, and ran with it, but didn't put what the NHL wanted into the new proposal. It really pissed the NHL off.
And I'm not arguing any of that and I don't blame the owners for being pissed. My only point is and was that the owners are making concessions from something they don't have where-as when the players make concessions, it's from something they actually have today.

I honestly can't stand Fehr and am not siding with the player in this, just trying to remain objective in pointing out that it's a lot easier to move away from something you don't have (as the owners are) than something you do have (as the players are being asked to).

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12-06-2012, 09:54 PM
  #873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
And I'm not arguing any of that and I don't blame the owners for being pissed. My only point is and was that the owners are making concessions from something they don't have where-as when the players make concessions, it's from something they actually have today.

I honestly can't stand Fehr and am not siding with the player in this, just trying to remain objective in pointing out that it's a lot easier to move away from something you don't have (as the owners are) than something you do have (as the players are being asked to).
Yea, I went on a tangent there, arguing a point that was never made. I feel like Rizer.

But I agree with you on that. But what can the NHL give up in this process? The only think I can think of is the right to the Olympics.

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12-06-2012, 10:04 PM
  #874
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But what can the NHL give up in this process? The only think I can think of is the right to the Olympics.

Good question and I can't answer that as I don't know all the details. I suspect for most of the things, the owners aren't willing to go backwards on so in order for a deal to be made, the players are going to be the ones that have to move a lot more from what they had last season.

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12-06-2012, 10:11 PM
  #875
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That deep-inside-players quote came from depth player. They want to play, but top players still in Fehr camp. Could explode soon
Expand
17m adater adater ‏@adaterv

That depth player was not on the Avalanche, FYI. That's all I have on this
Expand
13m adater adater ‏@adater

Fehr did not hold a player-wide conference call in saying that, important to note. Came from top down, trickle-down
Expand
13m adater adater ‏@adater

Bottom line here: Players say they are unified, but not what I'm hearing from this depth player. They'll deny that publicly, but...
Expand
11m adater adater ‏@adater

....privately, they are feeling powerless as the Ryan Millers and Brad Richards of the world pretend this is a sacrifice for them
Expand
8m adater adater ‏@adater

adater ‏@adater
This depth player is wicked smart though. May put his name to comments soon. Sorry for anonymous tilt to this. not my style
Expand
7m adater adater ‏@adater

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