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Old
12-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #426
Qward
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yup...

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Old
12-06-2012, 06:53 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by derriko View Post
Its funny how I bet we could have all settled on the middle number after like an hour of negotiating. Hmm, they want 211, and we want 390...how about 300? ****ing retards
lol. You just revolutionized the way people will negotiate for centuries.

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12-06-2012, 07:08 PM
  #428
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Yea, obviously I was over simplifying the situation, but to argue over that one point for like 3 weeks? And its really not that much money considering the NHL was "losing 3 million a day" or whatever Bettman said.

I wouldve loved to be in the room with the mediators. I bet they suggested the middle number and both sides were like no, we cant have both sides win. Someone has to get screwed.

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12-06-2012, 07:10 PM
  #429
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The problem is they negotiate for two days, then one side says 'I'm insulted,' rescinds all of their offers of concessions, and refuses to negotiate for two weeks.

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12-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
The problem is they negotiate for two days, then one side says 'I'm insulted,' rescinds all of their offers of concessions, and refuses to negotiate for two weeks.
The problem is very simple - Don Fehr - Bettman is doing exactly what anyone would expect of him - i've even been surprised how far the league has moved in the direction of the players - but every time the NHL makes a concession Fehr comes back wanting more. The NHLPA are going to fight to the deal on contracts when every other league has limits etc...

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12-06-2012, 07:22 PM
  #431
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Either franchises will fold, or the players will take sufficient pay-cuts. Not sure who will "cave" here; the players are a bunch of credulous alpha-males.

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12-06-2012, 07:29 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by R2010 View Post
The problem is very simple - Don Fehr - Bettman is doing exactly what anyone would expect of him - i've even been surprised how far the league has moved in the direction of the players - but every time the NHL makes a concession Fehr comes back wanting more. The NHLPA are going to fight to the deal on contracts when every other league has limits etc...
The problem is both Fehr and Bettman.

They're both shrewd negotiators known for taking hardline stances. Unfortunately, that means we're stuck with two sides looking for almost every excuse to take a hard stance while blaming the other side for it. Fehr made the PA holdout on negotiating til late summer. Bettman responds with a really terrible initial offer. Since then, it's been Fehr saying 'the league isn't negotiating in good faith' followed by Bettman saying 'the PA's offers are insulting', and then both sides having two weeks to pout about it.

Truth is somewhere in between.

The PA is right in the sense the NHL really isn't throwing them a bone for the lost salaries and contract rights, and in the sense that every NHL offer is an ultimatum that gets pulled off the table the instant the PA counter-offers.

The NHL is right in the sense that the PA is pushing for absolutely no change on their end when it's best to find a middle ground for the stability of the league, and in the sense that Fehr's been twisting words around to make the NHL offers look worse than they actually are.

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12-06-2012, 07:34 PM
  #433
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The players need to realize they will make more money from a healthy league that the NHL is trying to continue than their greedy offers that will damage some franchises.

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:23 PM
  #434
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As a fan I have no sympathy for the players. I hate guaranteed and long-term contracts and think it is bad for the competitive environment that makes hockey interesting and fun.

Let's be honest, of the 90 players with 6 years or longer contracts, probably none play on the 3rd or 4th lines. These are the star players who are determining the terms and conditions for all of the other players. 5 year contract limits has no bearing on the 3rd and 4th liners and the lower paid guys. It impacts those who make the most and we have seen time and time again in a salary cap era how long-term contracts can hamstring an organization.


Last edited by enviro61: 12-06-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 08:30 PM
  #435
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I'm wearing an NFL jersey to the Sens opener. In 2015

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:57 PM
  #436
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I swear Fehr keeps saying to the players "we can get better."

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Old
12-06-2012, 09:08 PM
  #437
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I'm wearing an NFL jersey to the Sens opener. In 2015
Too soon.

I'll be wearing my Alfredsson jersey. In 2026. When one of Alfie's kids gets drafted by Ottawa.

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12-06-2012, 09:13 PM
  #438
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adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"
Fudging reDQless.

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12-06-2012, 09:16 PM
  #439
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Fudging reDQless.
I loled.

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12-06-2012, 09:53 PM
  #440
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This league is a joke. I wonder why you are the 4th most popular sport in America?

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:00 PM
  #441
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As someone else mentioned

From a Columnist at the Denver Post and Sports Illustrated on Twitter:
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"


This is exactly what I figured would happen the second the NHL compromised. Fehr would go into ***** mode - go for the throat.

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12-06-2012, 11:36 PM
  #442
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He has brainwashed these players into his puppets, I hope more players lash out and they pressure the hard liners to take the deal (If its still there)

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Old
12-06-2012, 11:40 PM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
The problem is both Fehr and Bettman.

They're both shrewd negotiators known for taking hardline stances. Unfortunately, that means we're stuck with two sides looking for almost every excuse to take a hard stance while blaming the other side for it. Fehr made the PA holdout on negotiating til late summer. Bettman responds with a really terrible initial offer. Since then, it's been Fehr saying 'the league isn't negotiating in good faith' followed by Bettman saying 'the PA's offers are insulting', and then both sides having two weeks to pout about it.

Truth is somewhere in between.


The PA is right in the sense the NHL really isn't throwing them a bone for the lost salaries and contract rights, and in the sense that every NHL offer is an ultimatum that gets pulled off the table the instant the PA counter-offers.

The NHL is right in the sense that the PA is pushing for absolutely no change on their end when it's best to find a middle ground for the stability of the league, and in the sense that Fehr's been twisting words around to make the NHL offers look worse than they actually are.
This x 1000. Its been handled like an absolute joke by both sides.

But I still personally hold the PA more responsible in this ordeal. Everyone wants a healthy league, but the NHL clearly wants it more than the players.

The salary cap was one of the best things ever introduced in the NHL in terms parity, and Im glad they fought the players to the bitter end on that. We have a better, stronger league because of it. But the cap and salaries are clearly rising too fast, and something clearly needs to be done to balance things out.

The players still came out of that deal laughing all the way to the bank. They act like we're morons and dont realize how sweet a deal they've had for the last 6 years. They should just shut their mouths and accept the fact that they cashed in big. The good times are over and its time to sober up and face the reality that this isnt the NFL, MLB, or even the bloody NBA. Its the NHL. Moderation is needed to stay healthy.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:33 AM
  #444
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I went out with friends, can someone give me an update of what happened after Fehr's second announcement (the NHL turned them down one)

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:36 AM
  #445
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If decertification happens would that at least get rid of Fehr? I don't understand that process at all.

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12-07-2012, 12:37 AM
  #446
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Absolutely disgusting. Putrid, horrific, and.... and... disgusting.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:59 AM
  #447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawaFanBen View Post
If decertification happens would that at least get rid of Fehr? I don't understand that process at all.
Bob Mckenzie explains
In short, no, Fehr still there. There would be no negotiations, it would be in the hands of the court/someone else.

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:01 AM
  #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Bob Mckenzie explains
In short, no, Fehr still there. There would be no negotiations, it would be in the hands of the court/someone else.
If this is the case, should have done it a looooong time ago.

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:13 AM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OttawaFanBen View Post
If decertification happens would that at least get rid of Fehr? I don't understand that process at all.
Decertification means no more union, which means no more CBA. It also opens the league up to anti-trust suits. Players can challenge (in court) the legality of the lockout. Furthermore, they can challenge things like the salary cap, draft, free agency rules, entry level deals, and other contractual limits established under the CBA.

Players would negotiate individual contracts. Upside: greater flexibility for the players in negotiations, and the league can't lock them out. Downside: players aren't guaranteed anything; there's no minimum salary, there's no guaranteed benefits, etc.

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:43 AM
  #450
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I think the last PA offer was there last try at not giving in. I fully expect the PA to take the NHL's next offer. Otherwise Fehr's gotta go.

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