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The 2012-2013 NHL Lockout Discussion Thread

View Poll Results: Will there be any NHL games before 8/15/13?
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Old
12-05-2012, 09:56 AM
  #401
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No way they begin a season with a seven day training camp.

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12-05-2012, 10:10 AM
  #402
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I'll believe that a deal is in place and the season will be saved when I see it. In the meantime, I'm prepared for the worst.

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12-05-2012, 11:14 AM
  #403
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Saw this on twitter:

Jim Jachetta ‏@JimJachetta
Off to Chicago for NHL Blackhawks #GoalCam install.

Seems like it could be an indicator that there will be a season and it will start soon. Could just be coincindence.

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12-05-2012, 11:16 AM
  #404
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The NHL and NHLPA also put the Quebec labor hearing on hold, so they must think there's a realistic shot at a deal here.

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12-05-2012, 02:07 PM
  #405
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Originally Posted by OEL View Post
There just aren't any incentives for the majority of owners to cave in anyway. When you're posting losses at the end of each season like most teams do, what's the point of running a business?

The players are the ones risking a lot by not playing. Careers are pretty short. These are precious few months of potential income lost for the majority of players. So until another league starts paying as much as the NHL, or until most NHL clubs start turning in profits, owners will be dictating the outcome of work stoppages. It's not rocket science.


Agreed. Not only is it not rocket science it is EXACTLY as it should be.

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12-05-2012, 02:10 PM
  #406
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Don't appreciate the false statement here. Nothing is concrete. For all we know, the presser is related to the BoG meeting or even the Coyotes. There has been progress but nothing is locked in.

Oh come on, that was funny!

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12-05-2012, 02:11 PM
  #407
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Oh come on, that was funny!
Hey, can't make everybody happy. Everybody is a critic!!

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12-05-2012, 02:31 PM
  #408
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Don't know if any of you saw it, but I just got an invite as a STH to skate at jobing on Dec. 15.

So ice is going in. Something is afoot.

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12-05-2012, 02:44 PM
  #409
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The players are supposed to make a proposal to the owners at the BOG meeting today. I wouldn't be surprised to the owners reject it and that it will take 2-3 more weeks before both sides cut a deal. But hopefully I'm proven wrong.

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12-05-2012, 03:04 PM
  #410
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The players are supposed to make a proposal to the owners at the BOG meeting today. I wouldn't be surprised to the owners reject it and that it will take 2-3 more weeks before both sides cut a deal. But hopefully I'm proven wrong.
I hope you are right because i don't think they are going to cut a deal at all.

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12-05-2012, 04:24 PM
  #411
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I'm guessing someone brought an aluminum pole to the meeting yesterday. Then there was an airing of grievances that ran late into the night, yesterday. Today they are having the feats of strength. Then they can announce the season is back on. It will be a Festivus miracle.

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12-05-2012, 10:15 PM
  #412
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A podium has been assembled. Hmmm

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12-05-2012, 11:06 PM
  #413
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So the buzz on twitter is that the nhl is set to announce an agreement either later tonight or tomorrow. Here's to still hoping my prediction this morning is wrong.

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12-06-2012, 03:29 PM
  #414
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Assuming we have a season this year, we won't have games against:

Buffalo
Ottawa
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders

That's based on the schedule from today forward, with no future games scheduled against those clubs.

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12-06-2012, 03:49 PM
  #415
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Okay, this lock out is now officially about absolutely nothing...

John Shannon @JSportsnet Leagued proposed increasing "make whole" provision to 300 MillionDollars.

John Shannon @JSportsnet League proposed that UFA and Arbitrationrules stayed same as last CBA...27 and 4 Years Pro

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12-06-2012, 03:52 PM
  #416
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These 725 union members are now willing to throw away an entire years worth of salary to protect the right to have back diving contracts. 98% falling on their swords to protect the wealthiest two percent of their membership. It'd almost be impressive if it weren't so ****ing stupid.

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12-06-2012, 04:42 PM
  #417
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Just to clarify (the megathread is too insane to find any info, and I'm not Twitter savvy)

Is this what's on the table?

-Immediate linked 50/50
-300m make whole
-ELC, UFA, and Arb all unchanged
-Drastically increased club to club revenue sharing (30-40% more than last CBA?)
-5% limit on annual variance on individual contracts(only NEW contracts)
-5yr limit on NEW individual contracts (only when player is changing teams)
-7yr limit on NEW individual contracts (when player remains with current team)

Is that about it?

How many of the current 725 union members that don't already have back diving contract or contracts greater than five years in length can reasonably expect to have a contract like that in the future? Ten guys? Fifteen guys? Hell, even twenty guys is only THREE PERCENT of the union membership. They are getting all current contract honored and an HRR share adjustment to 50% (industry standard) and only about THREE PERCENT of union members impacted in any way by contracting rights issues.

Is that accurate? Why is there a lock-out? Why aren't they starting training camp on Monday?

If the players lose one single additional paycheck, that will have more impact on 97% of union members than simply accepting the deal on the table.

Am I wrong?

And this is apparently contingent on a 10 year CBA with a PA opt out clause after the 8th year.

Eight year PA opt out is perfect.

Apparently the PA is only acting in the interest of Donald Fehr's philosophical beliefs about labor, and his own preconceived notions he had when he took the job. Obviously he had his own ideas about how he'd like this to play out. De certification, lawsuits, full nuclear warfare and the decimation of a hard cap league. That's why he took this job. He didn't take this job to accept a deal that 97% of his constituency would be satisfied with. Too boring. Not political enough.

Players cannot complain about 50/50. They can't. That's just the way of the world. Beyond the 7% reduction in share, what can the players complain about? They'll be paid their contracts and at least 90% of them will suffer no contracting rights impact of any kind.

NHLPA needs to revolt and take this deal before they miss another paycheck. They need to ouster the Fehrs and the blind hardline fools like Ryan Miller and Ron Hainsey. They need to choose a voice that actually represents what 9/10 players are feeling. That guy and that ninety percent would be insane not to take this deal before another check doesn't come.


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12-06-2012, 05:01 PM
  #418
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I did find this interesting (mainly because we saw a similar retirement issue with the NFL refs):

Quote:
With "make-whole," there were reports last night (one of them mine) that the NHL upped its offer from $211 million to $300 million. That's closer to the NHLPA's last known request of $393 million. But later, there was a catch -- that $50 million of it would be for pension funding. That's a tricky one and sure to annoy the players. Here's why:

Due to differing pension laws in the United States and Canada, players based in the U.S. can receive approximately $20,000 more per year in tax-free contributions from their clubs. It's a nice little selling point for the American squads because if you play north of the 49th, you lose a good chunk of that difference to taxes.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...intensify.html

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12-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #419
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Doesn't really matter. Even if they only experience extremely small growth in HRR (3-5%) that 300m "Make Whole" number should actually end up being an OVER payment. They aren't going to give everyone with an existing contract a raise. They're going to take all of that excess money (probably 50m if you use NHL HRR growth projections) and put THAT money into pension funding.

It's "make whole" plus an extra fifty million dollar thank you payment to the pension fund.

These players are greedy, filthy pigs.

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12-06-2012, 07:56 PM
  #420
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Doesn't really matter. Even if they only experience extremely small growth in HRR (3-5%) that 300m "Make Whole" number should actually end up being an OVER payment. They aren't going to give everyone with an existing contract a raise. They're going to take all of that excess money (probably 50m if you use NHL HRR growth projections) and put THAT money into pension funding.

It's "make whole" plus an extra fifty million dollar thank you payment to the pension fund.

These players are greedy, filthy pigs.
I tweeted that a long time ago, and Biznasty went after me. (the greedy part).

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12-06-2012, 08:26 PM
  #421
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I tweeted that a long time ago, and Biznasty went after me. (the greedy part).
I'd categorize him more as a tragic, misguided sheep than a greedy, filthy pig.

He's rah, rah go union despite the fact that this lock out will effectively burn one half of the very last one way contract he will ever sign in the National Hockey League. The seven hundred and fifty kay he's leaving on the table to protect the ultra elite players special enough to earn front loaded, ten year, one hundred million dollar contracts, probably represents at least one third of the money he will make during the rest of his entire hockey career. This lock out has nothing to do with him. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for the NHLPA to negotiate a new CBA that will be more beneficial to Paul Bissonnette than simply accepting the October 15th offer would've been. 211m in Make Whole and an 82 game schedule likely would've paid him every penny he was expecting from the last CBA. He would've gone on with his career completely unaffected by this lock out. Not just him but every player like him. Every guy in the union that doesn't fit the category of franchise player. At least 95% of his union brothers.

He's just foolish, not greedy. Hell, that goes for most of these guys. Every player on a mega bucks super long term contract is getting grandfathered in and made whole. None of them are ever going to sign another contract, and their existing deals are being left unmolested and paid in full. What are they fighting for? It's as if this entire nuclear war is being waged on behalf of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Oliver Ekman Larsson, Alex Pietrangelo and every other fresh faced young KID (eighteen to twenty two years old) still on an ELC but yet to sign their 100m deal. Or guys like Seguin, Hall, etc that signed very long, very rich deals, but are likely to get one last huge pay day.

The Crosbys, Malkins, Stamkoses, Ovechkins, etc are all already taken care of. As are the Paul Bissonnettes, Mike Browns, Kyle Chipchuras and every other guy who will never get a six year deal anyway.

This is such a small number of players that are being fought for. It's just incredible. MacKinnon and Jones aren't even union members, so they don't count, either. Of 725 guys in the union maybe twenty or thirty would've been screwed by taking the October 15th NHL offer. All the rest would've been much better off than they are today.

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12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #422
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Not surprised!

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nhl/stor...-hour-thursday

Quote:
The latest round of NHL labor talks broke down Thursday when the league rejected the players' proposal of an eight-year collective bargaining agreement.

Players' association director Donald Fehr said the union received a voicemail message from the NHL, which stated that the proposal was unacceptable and that there was no need to continue negotiations Friday.

Fehr also said he doesn't believe the lockout will be resolved soon. The voicemail, left for union special counsel Steve Fehr, stated that "some things or everything" the league has offered is now off the table, according to Donald Fehr, who added this is not a positive development.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly are expected to address the media later Thursday, the 82nd day of the lockout. Bettman was not part of the one-hour meeting earlier in the day.

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12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
  #423
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I'd categorize him more as a tragic, misguided sheep than a greedy, filthy pig.

He's rah, rah go union despite the fact that this lock out will effectively burn one half of the very last one way contract he will ever sign in the National Hockey League. The seven hundred and fifty kay he's leaving on the table to protect the ultra elite players special enough to earn front loaded, ten year, one hundred million dollar contracts, probably represents at least one third of the money he will make during the rest of his entire hockey career. This lock out has nothing to do with him. It is literally IMPOSSIBLE for the NHLPA to negotiate a new CBA that will be more beneficial to Paul Bissonnette than simply accepting the October 15th offer would've been. 211m in Make Whole and an 82 game schedule likely would've paid him every penny he was expecting from the last CBA. He would've gone on with his career completely unaffected by this lock out. Not just him but every player like him. Every guy in the union that doesn't fit the category of franchise player. At least 95% of his union brothers.

He's just foolish, not greedy. Hell, that goes for most of these guys. Every player on a mega bucks super long term contract is getting grandfathered in and made whole. None of them are ever going to sign another contract, and their existing deals are being left unmolested and paid in full. What are they fighting for? It's as if this entire nuclear war is being waged on behalf of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Oliver Ekman Larsson, Alex Pietrangelo and every other fresh faced young KID (eighteen to twenty two years old) still on an ELC but yet to sign their 100m deal. Or guys like Seguin, Hall, etc that signed very long, very rich deals, but are likely to get one last huge pay day.

The Crosbys, Malkins, Stamkoses, Ovechkins, etc are all already taken care of. As are the Paul Bissonnettes, Mike Browns, Kyle Chipchuras and every other guy who will never get a six year deal anyway.

This is such a small number of players that are being fought for. It's just incredible. MacKinnon and Jones aren't even union members, so they don't count, either. Of 725 guys in the union maybe twenty or thirty would've been screwed by taking the October 15th NHL offer. All the rest would've been much better off than they are today.
I would put this in the corner of Fehr. Hockey players, no offense to them, but how many actually understand business and the economics behind it?

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12-06-2012, 09:27 PM
  #424
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I would put this in the corner of Fehr. Hockey players, no offense to them, but how many actually understand business and the economics behind it?
Fehr took this job to do one of two things. Do away with the hard cap or do away with the league as a whole. He does not care one little bit what happens to his players, their fans, or the sport of hockey. He's just in it to make a point. Make a mark. That's it. Nothing to do with hockey or hockey playing members of the union hr is supposed to represent.

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12-06-2012, 09:50 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Fehr took this job to do one of two things. Do away with the hard cap or do away with the league as a whole. He does not care one little bit what happens to his players, their fans, or the sport of hockey. He's just in it to make a point. Make a mark. That's it. Nothing to do with hockey or hockey playing members of the union hr is supposed to represent.
Haha wow you really believe in this stuff, do you?

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