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Jan 6/13: CBA reached to end the Lockout. Rejoice! (Post#783)

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:07 PM
  #101
west in the east
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Betman has no credibility with the "off the table" BS. Don't understand why the pa wants a short cba, don't understand why 5 year contracts is a hill to die on.

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12-06-2012, 07:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by VeteranNetPresence View Post
nice PR fail by mr donald fehr. getting ripped and deservedly so
Can you elaborate?

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12-06-2012, 07:20 PM
  #103
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At least we'll have a loaded world junior team.

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12-06-2012, 07:32 PM
  #104
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Next date to look at I'd say is around January 1-8. If no deal by then, no season.

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12-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #105
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I really cannot support the owners in this. I think their stance is ridiculous. At what point does this become exploitative of the players?

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12-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I really cannot support the owners in this. I think their stance is ridiculous. At what point does this become exploitative of the players?
I can't say I support anyone in this. It's disappointing, embarrassing, and unacceptable.

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12-06-2012, 07:44 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I can't say I support anyone in this. It's disappointing, embarrassing, and unacceptable.
Oh I agree. The players are being ridiculous with their unwillingness to take on a longer term CBA. However, the owners want to cut down to 50% and they want term limits on contracts. I think the first thing is fine, but the owners have to give something up for that. The second is completely ridiculous. And to take the make-whole off the table now is just stupid.

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12-06-2012, 07:52 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I really cannot support the owners in this. I think their stance is ridiculous. At what point does this become exploitative of the players?
Using the term exploitative in this situation seems absurd.

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12-06-2012, 07:52 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Oh I agree. The players are being ridiculous with their unwillingness to take on a longer term CBA. However, the owners want to cut down to 50% and they want term limits on contracts. I think the first thing is fine, but the owners have to give something up for that. The second is completely ridiculous. And to take the make-whole off the table now is just stupid.
Could you imagine what would happen in England if the EPL locked out?

Can't believe they argued over the split of HRR for so long, only to solve it and then blow everything else out of proportion, it's not a labour negotiation, it's a power struggle and an ego battle.

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12-06-2012, 07:55 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Oh I agree. The players are being ridiculous with their unwillingness to take on a longer term CBA. However, the owners want to cut down to 50% and they want term limits on contracts. I think the first thing is fine, but the owners have to give something up for that. The second is completely ridiculous. And to take the make-whole off the table now is just stupid.
Look how much changes since 2004.

I don't think signing on until 2022 makes too much sense, and I don't see why it is so important for the owners.

Were they not offering 4/5 year deals last month? 8 years vs 10....seems like there is room to compromise.

As long as the owners want to die on the hill of 5 year max contracts we won't be watching NHL action for a while.

I'd love to here that Crosby signed in Europe when I wake up tomorrow - might force the networks to play more CHL/AHL.

The owners have literally not moved an inch from the framework that was the old CBA.

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12-06-2012, 07:55 PM
  #111
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Both sides are both ass tards in this "lockout"..

Oh well, I won't be losing sleep over this.

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12-06-2012, 07:55 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Could you imagine what would happen in England if the EPL locked out?
Wouldnt happen because they don't have idiots running the league that don't care about the sport. At this point, I hope the season is cancelled and we see this league simply fold.

New league, new commish and new owners. **** them all.

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12-06-2012, 07:58 PM
  #113
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Players: ok we'll agree to max 5 year contracts, but move UFA down to 5 years and we want 65% of HRR.

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12-06-2012, 07:59 PM
  #114
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Wouldnt happen because they don't have idiots running the league that don't care about the sport. At this point, I hope the season is cancelled and we see this league simply fold.

New league, new commish and new owners. **** them all.
There are also only 3-5 teams that have a shot to win.

European football and NHL hockey are not comparable leagues at all.

Maybe before the cap era, not now.

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12-06-2012, 08:07 PM
  #115
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There are also only 3-5 teams that have a shot to win.

European football and NHL hockey are not comparable leagues at all.

Maybe before the cap era, not now.
Either way, they have soccer on without lockouts and their fan support is goes outside of their borders. Even with some of the same teams winning.

The NHL would pray they were ever that significant

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12-06-2012, 08:15 PM
  #116
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To die on the contract length issue is unbelievably dumb. If the owners could agree to it among each other so quickly, there really is nothing stopping them from coming to an internal agreement to not sign players to contracts of 5+ years as they are the ones handing out the contracts. The only thing stopping them from doing it is the owners themselves, as they know one of them will back out of their word at some point or another. The big thing about contract issues is that the owners can't control themselves; the fact we may lose a whole year on that basis just pisses me off.

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12-06-2012, 08:21 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by thecupismine View Post
To die on the contract length issue is unbelievably dumb. If the owners could agree to it among each other so quickly, there really is nothing stopping them from coming to an internal agreement to not sign players to contracts of 5+ years as they are the ones handing out the contracts. The only thing stopping them from doing it is the owners themselves, as they know one of them will back out of their word at some point or another. The big thing about contract issues is that the owners can't control themselves; the fact we may lose a whole year on that basis just pisses me off.
Apparently it would be illegal for them to come to an agreement not to sign players. It is collusion. And according to someone on the business forum the reason why they want the five year contracts is an insurance issue. Past five years insurance companies won't insure contracts. When you look at it like that it makes a little more sense. I was completely baffled why they had decided to make such a strict stand on that before. I do agree they are being ridiculous though. By pulling the make whole off the table they have potentially completely wasted all of the momentum they had over the past two weeks.

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:21 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecupismine View Post
To die on the contract length issue is unbelievably dumb. If the owners could agree to it among each other so quickly, there really is nothing stopping them from coming to an internal agreement to not sign players to contracts of 5+ years as they are the ones handing out the contracts. The only thing stopping them from doing it is the owners themselves, as they know one of them will back out of their word at some point or another. The big thing about contract issues is that the owners can't control themselves; the fact we may lose a whole year on that basis just pisses me off.
I believe that would be collusion and illegal.


We're at risk of losing a season because the players are looking for some retribution from the last lockout and to save their pride and ego (see their tweets and comments thus far) and the owners are trying to bargain the hard line.

If you want to see what is really going on, listen to some of the moderates who went in to bargain, such as Larry Tanenbaum:
Quote:
I must admit that I was shocked at how things have played out over the last 48 hours. The sessions on Tuesday felt cooperative with an air of goodwill. I was optimistic and conveyed my optimism to the Board of Governors at our Wednesday meeting. However, when we reconvened with the players on Wednesday afternoon, it was like someone had thrown a switch. The atmosphere had completely changed. Nevertheless, the owners tried to push forward and made a number of concessions and proposals, which were not well-received. I question whether the union is interested in making an agreement.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=647180

If you don't trust the NHL statement, other media personalities hinted at this changing dynamic the past couple of days.


Fehr has flip-flopped on quite a bit, as indicated by Bettman. What is at one point a 'strikeable' and non-negotiable clause became a non-issue and something else took its place afterwards. He has done a good job of keeping solidarity amongst ranks though, however, that has lead to the players taking this process personally and not looking objectively at what must be done to get a deal. It helps Fehr though...

Both sides are to blame. They need to take a few days to settle and come back as sensible men and get a deal done. If you let too many emotions become involved, everyone is doomed. I sincerely hope none of them are that stupid.


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Old
12-06-2012, 08:26 PM
  #119
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so let me get this straight: only reason we dont have a deal is because the owners want 5 year max contracts (players want 8) and the players want a 8 year CBA (6th year opt out option when the owners have offered a 10 year with opt out option in year 8)?

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12-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
There are also only 3-5 teams that have a shot to win.

European football and NHL hockey are not comparable leagues at all.

Maybe before the cap era, not now.
Tho you could argue the system they have in place is better...

With teams moving up/down leagues based on performance (i.e. NY Islanders, CBJ, Oilers, etc would be AHL teams right now while some AHL teams will get bump'd up to the NHL).

Teams that have a chance to win = guess what they have the best fan support/revenue which you could argue their fans deserve a better team while teams that has no chance of winning has a lot less fan support and you could argue its their fans fault for their team being lesser (i.e. support the team more!).

Using the revenue model, the NHL probably ends up with MORE revenue... can you imagine the amount of revenue they lost 'cause the Leafs can't make the playoffs while teams like PHO have been making the playoff regular. Honestly 1 home game @ Tor might result in more revenue than 4 games in PHO (or maybe an entire playoff depending on the away support for the teams they face. With this model, since the team with the biggest revenue stream generally have the better team, odds are the elite teams are the only ones making the final thus max revenue (and max TV rating/better TV deals).

The lesser teams might see less support/growth but there's still support/growth in hopes that they develop into an elite squad or support just to keep them in the elite league instead of falling into a lesser league. Not to mention any big upsets vs the elite teams would have a much bigger impact than an upset now. On top of that, with the draft model helping the bottom teams, they could be cost effective and competitive if the league continues to control RFA/increase control limits of RFA (say max salary for first 2 deals instead of just one and lock them to the team that drafted them for 7-9 years).

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12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by MajorCanuck View Post
so let me get this straight: only reason we dont have a deal is because the owners want 5 year max contracts (players want 8) and the players want a 8 year CBA (6th year opt out option when the owners have offered a 10 year with opt out option in year 8)?
No, the sides are still far apart despite what Fehr would like to indicate and what you're referring to.

The NHL was willing to compromise by offering a take it or leave it package where they conceded quite a bit of money in the short-term (which was not well received and what ticked off many of the moderate owners in attendance of the meetings) to achieve what they thought was a sustainable business in the long run.

The NHLPA decided to cherry pick what they liked (and what they were offered as concessions for other topics, but did not reciprocate) and countered with something that would favor them moreso.

So, we're at a stalemate.

PS, Adrian Dater (On the PA side usually, has now turned so you can infer what that means) tweeted this player quote:
Quote:
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"


Last edited by The Bob Cole: 12-06-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 08:36 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Look how much changes since 2004.

I don't think signing on until 2022 makes too much sense, and I don't see why it is so important for the owners.

Were they not offering 4/5 year deals last month? 8 years vs 10....seems like there is room to compromise.

As long as the owners want to die on the hill of 5 year max contracts we won't be watching NHL action for a while.

I'd love to here that Crosby signed in Europe when I wake up tomorrow - might force the networks to play more CHL/AHL.

The owners have literally not moved an inch from the framework that was the old CBA.
I just want things to blow up at this point. I either hope the NHLPA decertifies and the cap becomes abolished, or sponsors start backing out and the weaker franchises that are the cause of this lockout end up having to fold or relocate. I'm sick of this NHL ******** and I'm baffled how anyone can support them. I get into arguments with people (offline) and the amount of illogic they spew is ridiculous. I just laugh and walk away.

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:41 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I just want things to blow up at this point. I either hope the NHLPA decertifies and the cap becomes abolished, or sponsors start backing out and the weaker franchises that are the cause of this lockout end up having to fold or relocate. I'm sick of this NHL ******** and I'm baffled how anyone can support them. I get into arguments with people (offline) and the amount of illogic they spew is ridiculous. I just laugh and walk away.
Check out Adrian Dater's latest tweet from the players side. Don Fehr clearly orchestrated the hold up to pinch a bit more out of the deal. Most players were ready to lace up.

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12-06-2012, 08:46 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I just want things to blow up at this point. I either hope the NHLPA decertifies and the cap becomes abolished, or sponsors start backing out and the weaker franchises that are the cause of this lockout end up having to fold or relocate. I'm sick of this NHL ******** and I'm baffled how anyone can support them. I get into arguments with people (offline) and the amount of illogic they spew is ridiculous. I just laugh and walk away.
Agreed. Neither side has clean hands in this but the owners are even more disingenuous than Fehr (and he's been pretty disingenuous).

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12-06-2012, 08:47 PM
  #125
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Just de-certify! I don't know what it means, but do it!

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