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v.23: The Return of Kyle Lowry

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12-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #226
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Maybe he's waiting to see how the team performs when everyone is healthy
Fields isn't missed.

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12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #227
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Maybe he's waiting to see how the team performs when everyone is healthy
You forgot the

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12-06-2012, 04:15 PM
  #228
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Argh, why is Steve Francis on Off The Record? Guy was a tool and doesn't deserve any exposure on Canadian TV. I can't rightfully say it's his fault there are no more Vancouver Grizzlies, but he's easily in the top 5 things that negatively impacted the franchise.

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12-06-2012, 04:27 PM
  #229
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Fields isn't missed.
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
You forgot the
lol yeah can't say I'm expecting too much from this team even when everyone is healthy. Just trying to come up with a reason why Colangelo isn't doing anything. Maybe he does have something in the works, but still it's concerning that he still isn't interested in moving Bargs. I'm more concerned about why he isn't being fired as opposed to why he hasn't made any moves though.

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12-06-2012, 04:36 PM
  #230
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lol yeah can't say I'm expecting too much from this team even when everyone is healthy. Just trying to come up with a reason why Colangelo isn't doing anything. Maybe he does have something in the works, but still it's concerning that he still isn't interested in moving Bargs. I'm more concerned about why he isn't being fired as opposed to why he hasn't made any moves though.
Yea that would be the primary question. He should be canned.

First it was bad enough that he picked Bargnani, now not moving him is getting ridiculous.

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12-06-2012, 04:47 PM
  #231
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I don't think the Bargnani pick was a bad one, he just didnt develop properly. The draft itself was also pretty weak.

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12-06-2012, 04:54 PM
  #232
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I don't think the Bargnani pick was a bad one, he just didnt develop properly. The draft itself was also pretty weak.
It was weak, of course it would be when the Raptors are getting the 1st pick.

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12-06-2012, 04:56 PM
  #233
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its time to fire up the tank
sigh
shabazz isn't a top tier player but if we get a top 3 pick we can get him and bazz+val is a good combo moving forward
then next year theres wiggins... tank again ha

trade bargs for value (whatever value)
maybe even trade lowry for a pick from a middle pack team
I`d like to keep him but i doubt he`ll sign with a loser

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12-06-2012, 04:58 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by MarcWagz View Post
its time to fire up the tank
sigh
shabazz isn't a top tier player but if we get a top 3 pick we can get him and bazz+val is a good combo moving forward
then next year theres wiggins... tank again ha

trade bargs for value (whatever value)
maybe even trade lowry for a pick from a middle pack team
I`d like to keep him but i doubt he`ll sign with a loser
You know, knowing the Raptors luck, this will be the draft they get the first pick in. It's looking like it will be '06 bad.

Quote:
Top talent evaluators from around the NBA expressed pessimism about the 2013 draft in general and the No. 1 pick in particular.

"I'd trade the pick for sure," one NBA GM said. "No one wants to pick first this year -- and no one can live up to the No. 1 billing."

"It's the worst it's ever been," said another.

"I'm glad we won't be picking at the top," added one director of player personnel.

Cody Zeller is the consensus choice for the top spot, even though he possesses short arms and plays subpar defense.

"He'll never be a great NBA player," one NBA scouting director said.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...out_2013_Draft

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12-06-2012, 05:03 PM
  #235
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If we get the 1st overall pick and feel that there isn't a player we want then we could possibly trade it for a good young small forward.

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12-06-2012, 05:05 PM
  #236
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You know, knowing the Raptors luck, this will be the draft they get the first pick in. It's looking like it will be '06 bad.



http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...out_2013_Draft
That sucks. Ive still only seen Noel play personally and he looked good but not game changing. His game will translate easily but he doesnt bring enough to the table to effect the game alot. And if hes a top 3 talent...then yea it doesnt look great.

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12-06-2012, 05:06 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
If we get the 1st overall pick and feel that there isn't a player we want then we could possibly trade it for a good young small forward.
If every team feels this draft is crap, what could we really get?

It's not like there are an abundance of good, young small-forwards out there, and those that are out there aren't getting traded for a draft pick in an unbelievably crappy draft, even if it is first overall.

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12-06-2012, 05:14 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by 91Kadri91 View Post
If every team feels this draft is crap, what could we really get?

It's not like there are an abundance of good, young small-forwards out there, and those that are out there aren't getting traded for a draft pick in an unbelievably crappy draft, even if it is first overall.
Well we'd have to hope some teams really like Noel and/or Zeller and feel they have a need for one of them. But yeah hard to say if a good young small-forward will be available. If this draft really is bad as some are saying then I guess it wouldn't be a bad year to lose the pick for the Lowry trade. We will have to get out of the bottom 3 for that to happen though.

I still think Muhammad sounds like he could be a good player. Haven't had the chance to see him except for on highlight vids yet though.

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12-06-2012, 05:22 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
Well we'd have to hope some teams really like Noel and/or Zeller and feel they have a need for one of them. But yeah hard to say if a good young small-forward will be available. If this draft really is bad as some are saying then I guess it wouldn't be a bad year to lose the pick for the Lowry trade. We will have to get out of the bottom 3 for that to happen though.

I still think Muhammad sounds like he could be a good player. Haven't had the chance to see him except for on highlight vids yet though.
shabazz has only played 2 games so far and hes averaging 16 pts 6.5 rebounds
i think after a few more games hisstock will go up

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12-06-2012, 05:25 PM
  #240
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Well we'd have to hope some teams really like Noel and/or Zeller and feel they have a need for one of them. But yeah hard to say if a good young small-forward will be available. If this draft really is bad as some are saying then I guess it wouldn't be a bad year to lose the pick for the Lowry trade. We will have to get out of the bottom 3 for that to happen though.

I still think Muhammad sounds like he could be a good player. Haven't had the chance to see him except for on highlight vids yet though.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, I just doubt that a team would be willing to give up a good, young small-forward for a pick in this kid of draft. You never know though.

One player I really like is Archie Goodwin. The kid is ridiculously athletic, and has a ton of skill. He's pretty well-rounded, and would look great playing with Wiggins in a couple years.

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12-06-2012, 05:26 PM
  #241
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I don't think the Bargnani pick was a bad one, he just didnt develop properly. The draft itself was also pretty weak.
When you pick first overall and get the 6th or 7th best player it was a bad pick.

Roy, Gay, Rondo, Millsap, Lowry, Anderson are all better players. And of course now that we might get a top 3 pick again, its looking like the draft doesn't have an Anthony Davis or Kyrie Irving type talent.

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12-06-2012, 05:29 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by MarcWagz View Post
shabazz has only played 2 games so far and hes averaging 16 pts 6.5 rebounds
i think after a few more games hisstock will go up
What? Shabazz has played 5 games.

You're right when you say he's averaging 16 points, although he's averaging 5.6 rebounds, not 6.5. I'm also not sure what you mean by 'his stock will go up'. He's already considered to be one of the 'top-3', and it will likely come down to the teams preference/needs as to who gets picked first.

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12-06-2012, 05:30 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
When you pick first overall and get the 6th or 7th best player it was a bad pick.

Roy, Gay, Rondo, Millsap, Lowry, Anderson are all better players. And of course now that we might get a top 3 pick again, its looking like the draft doesn't have an Anthony Davis or Kyrie Irving type talent.
You didn't name the best player to come out of that draft; LaMarcus Aldridge.

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12-06-2012, 05:33 PM
  #244
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When you pick first overall and get the 6th or 7th best player it was a bad pick.

Roy, Gay, Rondo, Millsap, Lowry, Anderson are all better players.
you can't look at things in such a revisionist fashion though.

Rondo, and Lowry were both picked past #20. Millsap was a 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure what Anderson you're referring to (there was no Anderson drafted that year)

The only players you could even say would've/should've been a consideration for the Raptors out of that group were Gay and Roy. And Roy had serious concerns about his knees (apparently justifiably so given how his last handful of years have gone.) So only Gay comes off as a missed possible selection for the Raptors out of your set of players.

And before someone suggests Aldridge, we've been over this one too. The Raptors had Bosh already and Aldridge was basically looked at as a similar player to Bosh at that point. He was a face-up scoring PF who shot and wasn't an interior player. That was something that he developed after he made it to the NBA and wasn't considered as part or a potential part of his arsenal at the draft. Bargnani may also have been a PF like Bosh, but at least his skillset was different enough to make it an interesting attempt to team with Bosh's skills. Would Aldridge have worked out well for the Raps assuming he develops like he did in Portland? In hindsight, yes it would've now that Bosh has left. But at the time, picking him would've been like going into the draft this year and picking another C with Valanciunas already locked in. You don't always want to restrict yourself based on position all the time, but if you have a choice between similarly rated players where 1 is redundant in your system and 1 isn't, you take the one that offers something new.

Obviously the raptors could've done better, but they won the lottery at just about the worst possible time that they could've.

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12-06-2012, 05:34 PM
  #245
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Please forgive my ignorance, but does this Tor/LA trade have any validity or is it pure speculation at this point?

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12-06-2012, 05:37 PM
  #246
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Please forgive my ignorance, but does this Tor/LA trade have any validity or is it pure speculation at this point?
Seems like speculation. Only thing I've seen reported as fact is that hte Lakers say they won't entertain trade offers for Gasol until they've had a chance to evaluate the entire roster (ie once Nash comes back)

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12-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #247
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Millsap is also one of the shorter PF's in the game. It's a blessing for Utah that he managed to work with his height and be that dominant of a player, so good that they didn't need Boozer anymore.

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12-06-2012, 06:07 PM
  #248
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you can't look at things in such a revisionist fashion though.

Rondo, and Lowry were both picked past #20. Millsap was a 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure what Anderson you're referring to (there was no Anderson drafted that year)

The only players you could even say would've/should've been a consideration for the Raptors out of that group were Gay and Roy. And Roy had serious concerns about his knees (apparently justifiably so given how his last handful of years have gone.) So only Gay comes off as a missed possible selection for the Raptors out of your set of players.

And before someone suggests Aldridge, we've been over this one too. The Raptors had Bosh already and Aldridge was basically looked at as a similar player to Bosh at that point. He was a face-up scoring PF who shot and wasn't an interior player. That was something that he developed after he made it to the NBA and wasn't considered as part or a potential part of his arsenal at the draft. Bargnani may also have been a PF like Bosh, but at least his skillset was different enough to make it an interesting attempt to team with Bosh's skills. Would Aldridge have worked out well for the Raps assuming he develops like he did in Portland? In hindsight, yes it would've now that Bosh has left. But at the time, picking him would've been like going into the draft this year and picking another C with Valanciunas already locked in. You don't always want to restrict yourself based on position all the time, but if you have a choice between similarly rated players where 1 is redundant in your system and 1 isn't, you take the one that offers something new.

Obviously the raptors could've done better, but they won the lottery at just about the worst possible time that they could've.
Couldn't have said it better.


It's easy to judge in retrospect. I found a Sports Illustrated Mock Draft that had Bargnani ranked number 1 overall, and another one supporting that. In fact, I haven't found one Mock Draft online (published before the draft) that had Bargnani anywhere but #1. Aldridge was #2 in MOST (but not all), and Rondo was generally rated 25 or lower.

It was a bad year to draft #1, but Colangelo went with the consensus top pick.

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12-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
you can't look at things in such a revisionist fashion though.

Rondo, and Lowry were both picked past #20. Millsap was a 2nd rounder, and I'm not sure what Anderson you're referring to (there was no Anderson drafted that year)

The only players you could even say would've/should've been a consideration for the Raptors out of that group were Gay and Roy. And Roy had serious concerns about his knees (apparently justifiably so given how his last handful of years have gone.) So only Gay comes off as a missed possible selection for the Raptors out of your set of players.

And before someone suggests Aldridge, we've been over this one too. The Raptors had Bosh already and Aldridge was basically looked at as a similar player to Bosh at that point. He was a face-up scoring PF who shot and wasn't an interior player. That was something that he developed after he made it to the NBA and wasn't considered as part or a potential part of his arsenal at the draft. Bargnani may also have been a PF like Bosh, but at least his skillset was different enough to make it an interesting attempt to team with Bosh's skills. Would Aldridge have worked out well for the Raps assuming he develops like he did in Portland? In hindsight, yes it would've now that Bosh has left. But at the time, picking him would've been like going into the draft this year and picking another C with Valanciunas already locked in. You don't always want to restrict yourself based on position all the time, but if you have a choice between similarly rated players where 1 is redundant in your system and 1 isn't, you take the one that offers something new.

Obviously the raptors could've done better, but they won the lottery at just about the worst possible time that they could've.
I was begging for the raptors to select Aldridge in 06. The guy put on a ton of muscle between his 1st and last season of College.And he was defiantly a much more aggressive player in his last year at Texas. He was going to the basket more often, was a good shot blocker, could run the floor, crashed the boards hard and he always had the jump hook down low, and did have a few other low post moves he developed over his stay @ tex.

Sure LaMarcus played a similar game to Bosh but Bosh was an all-star was the franchise player and LaMarcus was the top big man prospect in the country in 06. It should have been an easy decision if Toronto was going to select a big man to go with LaMarcus with the 1st pick.

Bosh even lobbied for the Raps to select LaMarcus Aldridge, and similar players can co-exist and adapt to changing up their styles. There is nothing wrong imo with having two mobile big men that can run the floor and drain the jump shot or drive the lane. Both were/are good re bounders. I personally believe that if Toronto selected Aldridge, that Chris Bosh would still be a Toronto Raptor. And I personally don't see a problem with a front court of Bosh @ C and Aldridge @PF.

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12-06-2012, 07:34 PM
  #250
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It's quite unbelievable that one corporation (MLSE) can be responsible for 3 laughable franchises all at the same time (Leafs, Raps and TFC).

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