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CBA Thread, Daniel Bryan Edition: The lockout is (tentatively) over!

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Old
12-06-2012, 06:31 PM
  #176
KaylaJ
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For those of you still holding onto hope about how the NHL CBA talks are following the NHL, you have til Dec 8 to get a deal not just agreed to, but signed as well.


They say Bettman & Daly will be talking to the media soon


And Seth from EN's RT'd this:

Craziest comment from Fehr regarding voicemail from league: "Everything or something is off the table." Didn't know specifics. #NHL #NHLPA

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12-06-2012, 06:32 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by SHOOTANDSCORE View Post
LOL. A nice bit of theater

Fehr says they are close to an agreement, leaves the podium, runs back and says the the league left him a voicemail telling them to go home because there won't be any more meetings today or tomorrow.



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12-06-2012, 06:44 PM
  #178
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Congratulations Donald Fehr. You imbecile!!!

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12-06-2012, 06:53 PM
  #179
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Bettman from Lebrun:

Bettman says sense of optimism "almost inexplixably" disappeared Wednesday afternoon after such a good day Tuesday

Bettman says the owners pushed hard on new deal last night. Bettman says union response last night was "shockingly silent."

Bettman says owners last night in room were beside themselves at the players' reaction.

Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table


Cotsonika:

Bettman: Owners said union "clearly doesn't want to make a deal." Players wanted to get back on track.

Bettman: Players made pension plan key element, after making make-whole and contracting elements key elements in past.

Bettman: Players made pension plan key element, after making make-whole and contracting elements key elements in past.

Bettman: It wasn't intended to be a negotiating session. Answer wasn't "yes."

Bettman: Bottom line is union is suggesting because we moved, close to deal. But moves were contingent on things union did not agree to.


Bettman: The characterization that we were close, that reminds me of the last time the union said we were close and we were $1B apart.

(oooh snap!)

Bettman: Spinning us into "emotional frenzy" is unfair.

Bettman: We have moved dramatically. We are proposing long-term system that will pay players billions.

Bettman: I am disappointed beyond belief that we are where we are tonight. Need to take a deep breath and try to regroup.

Bettman: Made best offer, then stretched. Went further than we should have. When it didn't get right response, clubs wanted make-whole gone.

Bettman: I wanted to do everything possible to try to get to a deal.

Daly: Owners added more money on make-whole, walked away from contracting. Response was "insulting" to owners, wanted to walk.

Daly: Union missed the mark on all three of owners' demands. Union saying sides are close is "cherry picking."
_______________________________


Sounds like PA moved goal posts and even owners who were in the room got angry and shocked. Things may have been close, hard to tell, but now things off the table. Gary is PO'd and I'm guessing the owners behind him aren't too thrilled either. All that hope the fresh owners to save the season sounds like it blew up when they realized the union kept moving things.


Last edited by KaylaJ: 12-06-2012 at 06:59 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 07:01 PM
  #180
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WOW... Bettman.. wow. Just amazing stuff here. He is laying it all on the line as honest and blunt as possible. Just wow. How anyone can be pro player is impossible.

Great work.

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12-06-2012, 07:03 PM
  #181
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Pretty much season over at this point. Just have to laugh at players completely overplaying their hand and costing them millions of dollars in a career with a rather short shelf life.

Can't believe that the NHLPA was so easily led around by the nose. By shutting down the NHL for a season, Fehr has made himself a union legend. How many union guys have shut down a couple of billion dollar companies? He'll be one of the forefront guys you'll hear about if you practice labor relations. His legacy is secure as the guy who cancelled the World Series and a Stanley Cup. He almost makes Bettman look like competent leader.

Stay strong union brothers. Wonder what the "idiots" like Hamrlik are thinking right now since their NHL careers are effectively finished and/or have lost millions on "principle."


Last edited by Sivek: 12-06-2012 at 07:08 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 07:07 PM
  #182
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If there was a vote... i guarantee it would have been voted to start the season. Fehr thought he could take and take and take. If I'm a player.. i'm hunting Fehr down.

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12-06-2012, 07:09 PM
  #183
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Glad I won't be crossing paths with Gary tonight.

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12-06-2012, 07:11 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
WOW... Bettman.. wow. Just amazing stuff here. He is laying it all on the line as honest and blunt as possible. Just wow. How anyone can be pro player is impossible.

Great work.
I respect you tremendously my friend, but I think you're being a little bit too emotional. I'm not pro-player nor pro-owners, but I can understand why someone would support the players' side on this "3 important things for us" thing.

The 5% decrease rule and the 5-year contract-limit rules are basically the same thing. The proposition the PA made, using that concept, is not that outlandish. The owners taking a hard stance on this, when they are the ones who gave out these ridiculous contracts, is pretty hard to swallow from a player perspective. These things should be negociated in good faith. The "you get this only if you give us these things" stance is ludicrous. It is a negociating tactic, Fehr thought it was a bluff, he called it and he lost. Bettman thought the players would bite, they didn't That's it. There are no reasons to blame Fehr and the players for derailing the process, because what happened today IS part of the process.

That doesn't mean the owners are right, though. I would have negociated on these points just like Fehr did because that's what good negociators do. You don't accept ultimatums like that when there are things that should be negociated. Now, they are taking make-whole off the table? Come on, I'm not buying that.

They will get back together soon enough. Both sides are trying to make the other one flinch. Don't get too emotional my friends, both sides have too much to lose not to end up striking a deal on those issues. And if they don't, well, both Bettman and Fehr deserve to be fired and never be hired by anyone ever again. Fehr was right on one thing, they aren't that far away from a deal. The owners' stance is simply a negociating tactic.

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12-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #185
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^Fehr is doing nothing but negotiating tactic as well. Also, all this not want to lose"? They are losing already by the day, not just money on the table but fans too. This kabuki show doesn't help either side at all

Various tweets:

Bettman -- what you are witnessing is very tough bargaining ... Our mistake was continuing to negotiate against yourself #NHL

Bettman says league has not set a drop-dead date for cancelling season, not even internally

Daly: "They knew there was a major gulf between us and yet they came down here and told you we were close."

Bettman: “You know what my magic date was? It was October 11, when we should have opened the season.”

Bettman: Board was briefed on disclaiming interest/decertification Wednesday. Don't think it has the impact others do.

Bettman: We're not interested in mediation. We went through it. It has no value because of the position of the parties.

"Very awkward situation with players standing in the back of the room, arms crossed or hands in pockets, while Bettman speaks."

Bettman: When we get to the point where we can't play the season with integrity, we'll be done. Can't imagine fewer than 48 games.

Bettman takes another shot at PA: "If we were that close to a deal why would we need mediation."


Presser over. Ron Hainsey says players came down into room because they didn't have TSN on the TVs upstairs


(but I bet they get TNT who is showing the Heat~Knicks NBA game....)


Last edited by KaylaJ: 12-06-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 07:12 PM
  #186
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How can the players not like this leadership. This is awesome. I'm fired up just listening to it. When you listen to the two... you can smell the ******** a mile away. It's so obvious.

Bettman must have taken a deep breath then just let it all off his chest. This is like CM Punk's shoot promo.

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12-06-2012, 07:20 PM
  #187
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****.

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:20 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
^Fehr is doing nothing but negotiating tactic as well. Also, all this "they don't want to lose"? They are losing already by the day, not just money on the table but fans too. This kabuki show doesn't help either side at all

Various tweets:

Bettman -- what you are witnessing is very tough bargaining ... Our mistake was continuing to negotiate against yourself #NHL

Bettman says league has not set a drop-dead date for cancelling season, not even internally

Daly: "They knew there was a major gulf between us and yet they came down here and told you we were close."

Bettman: “You know what my magic date was? It was October 11, when we should have opened the season.”

Bettman: Board was briefed on disclaiming interest/decertification Wednesday. Don't think it has the impact others do.

Bettman: We're not interested in mediation. We went through it. It has no value because of the position of the parties.

...apparently some players have walked in to listen to the press conference. Would be nice if they listened to the differences.
I know, but that's how both sides are playing it. And honestly, neither side is falling for the other side's tactics and that's why we are in a funk. They should negociate all these things in good faith. The "it is a package deal" thing is bullcrap. The term of the CBA, the term of individual contracts and the 5% rule have NOTHING to do with core economics. Absolutely nothing at all. They tried to bully the PA into accepting some of the more radical changes they want to make to the system and they failed. The PA thought the owners would fold and negociate if they tried to negociate on these things and they failed also.

And Cole, yeah, Bettman does sound like a CM Punk promo and you know why? Both are great public speakers and both know how to get the reactions they want. I admire Bettman for that, even though I hate how he conducts business.

Philosophically speaking, I'm supporting neither side, because, quite honestly, I don't give a **** about the business side of hockey, I just want to see my Pens play. I think both sides are childish and both sides should go back in the room and negociate each issues separately. They aren't far off on ANY of them. The only problem seems to be this notion of a package deal. Quite frankly, this notion is stupid to begin with. Just act like adults and give me back my Penguins.

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Old
12-06-2012, 07:26 PM
  #189
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Pretty hard for the league to negotiate in "good faith" when the PA doesn't show any themselves. For as much as they talk about it, they turn around and find a way to call out the other side. First it was Puck Gary, then it was Jacobs, now that other owners were in the room, who will it be now?



Lebrun:

Expect statements tonight from all 4 owners who joined talks this week.

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12-06-2012, 07:32 PM
  #190
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the PA's tactics. I'm calling out both sides.

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12-06-2012, 07:33 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaylaJ View Post
Pretty hard for the league to negotiate in "good faith" when the PA doesn't show any themselves.
The players were never going to just hand over 50/50 HHR and contract restrictions. This was always headed toward a protracted work stoppage and mean spirited negotiations on both sides.

With that said, this is a brilliant move by Fehr. Attempting to tilt the PR wagon while he makes one last squeeze to get a little more out of the owners. This guy is an immovable object, and I respect his work as long as they get something signed this month.

If they don't, I then will have to fully agree with the general feelings out there that Fehr has his own agenda, and is leading the players to Armageddon. I so hope he is just really good at his job though.

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12-06-2012, 07:36 PM
  #192
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Scottie Upshall really, really needs to stop tweeting.

__________________

"I don't know what the stronger emotion would be, the joy of winning or the pain of losing"-Sidney Crosby.
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12-06-2012, 07:37 PM
  #193
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Both sides were not playing at the same time. Witness the players not doing anything on Wed/no hard yes or no today.

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12-06-2012, 07:40 PM
  #194
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This smacks of our roller coaster with the Parise/Suter situation this off-season. Extreme highs, followed by extreme lows.

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12-06-2012, 07:42 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
The players were never going to just hand over 50/50 HHR and contract restrictions. This was always headed toward a protracted work stoppage and mean spirited negotiations on both sides.

With that said, this is a brilliant move by Fehr. Attempting to tilt the PR wagon while he makes one last squeeze to get a little more out of the owners. This guy is an immovable object, and I respect his work as long as they get something signed this month.

If they don't, I then will have to fully agree with the general feelings out there that Fehr has his own agenda, and is leading the players to Armageddon. I so hope he is just really good at his job though.

He did help ruin any hope I'll enjoy baseball ever again, and if he succeeds here, I'm pretty much done with the sports world since the NFL is dangling by threads for me also.

It's so disgusting where the sports world has gone too.

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12-06-2012, 07:42 PM
  #196
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It's almost refreshing seeing the sentiment here in this forum. When I read through the PHT all the people leaving comments there are all pro players and blaming Bettman for this recent breakdown. It just seems like they're so blinded by an irrational hatred for Bettman that they'll never side with him.

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12-06-2012, 07:44 PM
  #197
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Scottie Upshall really, really needs to stop tweeting.

lol, it's guys like this that are epidemic of the current problem. He's a scrub and yet gets paid a fully guaranteed 4-year, 3.5 mil per deal. A 30-point 3rd-liner gets paid like that because a team needs to reach the cap floor. The cap floor has always been too high and ends up artificially inflating salaries because teams need to break through it. The problem isn't the good players making a lot of money, it's the scrubs making about triple what they're worth. If this were football or basketball (the other salary cap sports), he would of been cut because of crap play and non-guaranteed contract (NFL) or cut because of partially guaranteed contracts (NBA) but he lucked out by playing the least profitable sport which has fully guaranteed contracts.

You're better off as a franchise as not even spending that money than giving it to a scrub like Upshall, the type of player that if he were smart, would want there to be a season cause after his current contract runs out, he's going to be on the one-year minimum wage scale for the rest of his career.


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12-06-2012, 07:45 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
Scottie Upshall really, really needs to stop tweeting.
Yeah, I replied with a strong '******* off' and a un-follow/was blocked. This is an infuriating process and if the make whole is truly off the table I, as a player, would be sobbing right now..

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12-06-2012, 07:46 PM
  #199
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the PA's tactics. I'm calling out both sides.

I can agree with that. Wasn't sure which way you were going though since you were only bringing up the owners and the whole thing though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gallatin View Post
The players were never going to just hand over 50/50 HHR and contract restrictions. This was always headed toward a protracted work stoppage and mean spirited negotiations on both sides.

With that said, this is a brilliant move by Fehr. Attempting to tilt the PR wagon while he makes one last squeeze to get a little more out of the owners. This guy is an immovable object, and I respect his work as long as they get something signed this month.

If they don't, I then will have to fully agree with the general feelings out there that Fehr has his own agenda, and is leading the players to Armageddon. I so hope he is just really good at his job though.
He's had a rough few days and may be an uphill battle from here on out:


Owner statements including Burkle

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12-06-2012, 07:48 PM
  #200
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Burkle has a press release/reaction out there somewhere that I'm trying to get my virtual hands on. Or the NHL could just release it... Makes things easier.

NHL Owner Reactions

Quote:
We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and "non-negotiable" decision - which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we have moved at any time in the past months.

I want to thank the players involved for their hard Work as We tried to reach a deal.

I hope that going backwards does not prevent a deal.
Wow, pure loathing by Burkle towards the Fehr brothers. This is not a man who makes angry comments or wears his emotions on his sleeve; so for him to say this.... Truly the only thing I can say is, wow.

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