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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

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12-06-2012, 08:01 PM
  #1
Scotto74
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2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

This sucks edition

Part I: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1219919
Part II: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1266407
Part III: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1274757
Part IV: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1283219
Part V: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1299667

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12-06-2012, 08:05 PM
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All we have to Fehr is Fehr itself.

That punk.

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12-06-2012, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
Chris Johnston ‏@reporterchris
Ron Hainsey says the NHL told players last night that bringing Don Fehr back into the room was potentially "a deal-breaker."
It seems like events of today prove that right. Fehr comes back, owners do not show up for session, Fehr has press conference, owners reject deal by voicemail lol. It's pretty clear they are trying to disenfranchise him but this will not work. This will leave players believing owners are trying to take advantage of them without adequate representation and that will make them distrustful. So, the owners need to move off that tactic I think. Fehr may be a genuine PITA and an impediment in some way to a deal getting done soon but there's no way the players came this far to throw him under the bus and take a deal with lots of give backs.

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12-06-2012, 08:07 PM
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There will be a season, majority of players just have to stand up. 8 year contracts don't benefit them, losing more games really doesn't benefit them

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12-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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Players now will question the Fehr method...
I can see votes for the players in an immediate future.

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12-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Eye View Post
It seems like events of today prove that right. Fehr comes back, owners do not show up for session, Fehr has press conference, owners reject deal by voicemail lol. It's pretty clear they are trying to disenfranchise him but this will not work. This will leave players believing owners are trying to take advantage of them without adequate representation and that will make them distrustful. So, the owners need to move off that tactic I think. Fehr may be a genuine PITA and an impediment in some way to a deal getting done soon but there's no way the players came this far to throw him under the bus and take a deal with lots of give backs.
Not sure I agree Kevin.
In a case like this where there is such venom and distrust out of the entire population involved there has to be someone on both sides respected and trusted as a man of his word.

At this point it's those guys that need to be handed the reigns and keep the polarized folks out.

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12-06-2012, 08:13 PM
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The owners know exactly who they are up against.

I am so far removed from hockey right now. If it would start next weekend it would take me into February to get back into it. By then I am looking to see what is happening in basbol.

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12-06-2012, 08:14 PM
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I can't believe this. All that optimism yesterday, and now we're back to less than square one. The longer this has dragged out, the more I find myself siding with the owners. Fehr sucks.

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12-06-2012, 08:19 PM
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table

So...this is how we get a deal? Take our ball (puck) and go home.

Really?????

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12-06-2012, 08:22 PM
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Here is what I have learned from all of this:

I clearly don't know what the word "concession" means.

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:24 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Minutes4Fighting View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table

So...this is how we get a deal? Take our ball (puck) and go home.

Really?????
Neither side wants a deal. They both want to "win".

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12-06-2012, 08:24 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Minutes4Fighting View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table

So...this is how we get a deal? Take our ball (puck) and go home.

Really?????
Yes. 1000 times yes.

In real life. Real negotiations on ANY collective Bargaining Agreement, it is zero based. If one side has reason to believe the other side has renegad on something, they pull it all.


This is not a hockey thing.


Good grief........where's the Tylenol?

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12-06-2012, 08:25 PM
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Still think a deal will happen

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12-06-2012, 08:26 PM
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what did the NHLPA renege on, Wally? They were given an all or nothing proposal, but they refused to accept that it was all or nothing and tried to negotiate off of it. Where is the deception?

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12-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Mike View Post
Neither side wants a deal. They both want to "win".
That's part of it Mike. Those elements need to be culled out and guys who want to find agreement need to take lead at this point.

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12-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #16
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Fehr's not interested in a deal, its completely obvious. Hell, he gets back to the table and they show up 5 hours late for a meeting. This guy is a complete disaster, I hope the players figure this out soon.

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12-06-2012, 08:28 PM
  #17
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Getting into a heated discussion on the FB status about the lockout today. I don't see where Fehr and the players can get off thinking an 8 year CBA with an opt out at 6 is acceptable? Does anyone even remotely believe that would last all 8 years?

If you owned a business, would you invest in the NHL as a sponsor knowing that they've had 2 labor disputes in 8 years and only a what's most likely a 6 year CBA? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I jsut don't get the logic coming the the NHLPA anymore.

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12-06-2012, 08:29 PM
  #18
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I really think the NHL wanted to make a deal this week.

Fehr is in this to glorify himself.

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Old
12-06-2012, 08:30 PM
  #19
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
Not sure I agree Kevin.
In a case like this where there is such venom and distrust out of the entire population involved there has to be someone on both sides respected and trusted as a man of his word.

At this point it's those guys that need to be handed the reigns and keep the polarized folks out.
I was involved in a deal, as a seller, and it was a sizable deal. We had the "waterfront tower giant legal firm" representing us and the buyer had the same. Everybody was lawyered up while we hammered out the purchase agreement, took about 4+ months once the outline for the purchase agreement was in place. I remember spending many an hour on the phone with our reps while they went through a very long contract, point by point, and hammered into us where the buyer was trying to gain the upper hand or put the burden/liability entirely on us. Point by point and it starts to add up where it's not about 1 or even 3 points in isolation. And no doubt the buyer's attorneys were doing exactly the same as we went back and forth. Much of the negotiation actually ended up being between the lawyers and those guys were pretty damn tough. I always say I'm glad our guy was on our side - a tough nut when negotiating.

The point is, you get caught up in the effectiveness of your negotiators and you get an attitude about the things that aren't stacked your way and you are happy that these guys are battling it out for the best deal you can get. In our case, everything worked out great in the end and we got the best terms we could, which amounted to give and take throughout a massive contract.

Not to universalize my experience, but I do not doubt that Fehr walks through the terms of the NHL's proposal and points out all the places where the owners are trying to "tuck it to you." Here in this clause, over here in this section, again over here, etc. And it adds up. And you start to get aggravated, yeah, that not very fair! And Fehr has done a lot of this, he knows what he's talking about, he knows a lot more than anybody he's talking to in the player ranks, except for some of the agents, and those players are probably going to develop some emotion around it all, some trust that this Fehr guy is looking out for them and knows what he's talking about.

These negotiators do these deals all the time. They know that the end game is to get a deal done and to push things as far as they can go until it's time to close the deal or blow it. Holding out, letting things get amped up, getting people worried about the deal collapsing, all part of the process and they move on to the next deal. I have to believe that Fehr understand this is all part of a process that almost everybody hates but that is his job to bring to the best place for his side before the final bell rings.

I think it's pretty tough to dislodge the place Fehr has secured for himself. I would be surprised if they literally push him out of the way and take a deal that makes the union look soft or like it was a "big loss." I'm sure a lot of the guys are frustrated and bent about missing paychecks but when Fehr rattles off the 10 places where they get "screwed" in the new deal, it will be tough for many of these guys to raise their hands and say, "but we should take it."

That's how I see it at least.

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12-06-2012, 08:31 PM
  #20
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Also, Ron Hainsey is pure trash. As a hockey player and whatever he calls himself right now.

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12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
  #21
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Fehr's not interested in a deal, its completely obvious. Hell, he gets back to the table and they show up 5 hours late for a meeting. This guy is a complete disaster, I hope the players figure this out soon.
Makes no sense. Why would he not be interested in making deal? He's only trying to get the best deal he can for the players and everything is a tactic toward that end. Whether it actually works out his way or not remains to be seen. But of course he wants to make a deal. His deal. And he may not get it.

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12-06-2012, 08:32 PM
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what did the NHLPA renege on, Wally? They were given an all or nothing proposal, but they refused to accept that it was all or nothing and tried to negotiate off of it. Where is the deception?
As I said earlier on my experience when something like this occurs it is because something that was thought agreed upon was reopened or something agreed non negotiable was brought up for negotiation.

That, in my experience, is the only way you go from productive to off the table in 24 hours.

Then no matter what at this stage to pull a PR stunt like Fehr did is about as snake belly low in the spirit of making a deal as you can go.


Frankly if I was an owner, I'd shut it down right now. Take however long it takes. But that's me. I believe in good faith. I believe in collaboration.
I believe. Mans only as good as his word too though.


Last edited by Gee Wally: 12-06-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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12-06-2012, 08:34 PM
  #23
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Getting into a heated discussion on the FB status about the lockout today. I don't see where Fehr and the players can get off thinking an 8 year CBA with an opt out at 6 is acceptable? Does anyone even remotely believe that would last all 8 years?

If you owned a business, would you invest in the NHL as a sponsor knowing that they've had 2 labor disputes in 8 years and only a what's most likely a 6 year CBA? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I jsut don't get the logic coming the the NHLPA anymore.
Totally agree about sponsors needing/wanting league stability.

I would not want to put big money into a league run by a guy that was not only the only commissioner to lose an entire season but to lose two entire seasons.

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12-06-2012, 08:34 PM
  #24
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I really think the NHL wanted to make a deal this week.

Fehr is in this to glorify himself.

Don't forget the greedy players in all this.
Fehr is an employee he does what the players ask of him.

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12-06-2012, 08:35 PM
  #25
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