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Morgan Rielly discussion thread.

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Old
11-30-2012, 04:51 PM
  #101
thecatch22
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Absolutely not. Let him develop in Junior and maybe season him with a year of AHL. This a player that you drafted not to be a piece so to speak but a MAIN ingredient to the team moving forward.

It's a disservice to Morgan and the Leafs organization to put him in a spot where he is not ready to be in.

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11-30-2012, 11:02 PM
  #102
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Absolutely not. Let him develop in Junior and maybe season him with a year of AHL. This a player that you drafted not to be a piece so to speak but a MAIN ingredient to the team moving forward.

It's a disservice to Morgan and the Leafs organization to put him in a spot where he is not ready to be in.
How would we know if he's ready or not if we don't give him a chance at training camp? If you don't see him play against/with NHL-calibre competition, how could you make a definitive ruling on the matter, either for or against?

Also, he can't play in the AHL next year, not until he's 20. If he indeed isn't ready for the NHL next season, he'll play another year in Junior.

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11-30-2012, 11:11 PM
  #103
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I hope the new cba has more flexibility with putting junior players in the ahl. It just seems unfair to have to choose between a high or low instead of a middle.

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11-30-2012, 11:14 PM
  #104
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I hope the new cba has more flexibility with putting junior players in the ahl. It just seems unfair to have to choose between a high or low instead of a middle.
I can't remember if the rule is part of the CBA or if it's part of the agreement the NHL has with the CHL. If it's the former, that would be great, but if it's the latter, I don't think there's anything to do about it in these negotiations.

If someone with a little more knowledge could clear that up, that would be much appreciated.

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11-30-2012, 11:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by AmazedRink View Post
I hope the new cba has more flexibility with putting junior players in the ahl. It just seems unfair to have to choose between a high or low instead of a middle.
I don't think CBA has anything to do with it. I believe it is the agreement made with the CHL.

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12-01-2012, 01:54 AM
  #106
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I hope the new cba has more flexibility with putting junior players in the ahl. It just seems unfair to have to choose between a high or low instead of a middle.
i like it


its like you know the guy you drafted to your club can play with you guys... and if that isn't the case, goes back to his former team

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12-01-2012, 12:01 PM
  #107
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i like it


its like you know the guy you drafted to your club can play with you guys... and if that isn't the case, goes back to his former team
What do you think would happen to CHL if teams sent all their best and brightest young prospects to the AHL instead of returning them to junior hockey?

While the current agreement has expired and in the process of being renewed, there is a logical reason behind the NHL and CHL working together in the best interest of the sport and development. Nothing wrong with a player playing in the CHL from ages 18-20 when drafted and then moving up to the AHL at 20-21 if they're not NHL ready.

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12-01-2012, 12:38 PM
  #108
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What do you think would happen to CHL if teams sent all their best and brightest young prospects to the AHL instead of returning them to junior hockey?

While the current agreement has expired and in the process of being renewed, there is a logical reason behind the NHL and CHL working together in the best interest of the sport and development. Nothing wrong with a player playing in the CHL from ages 18-20 when drafted and then moving up to the AHL at 20-21 if they're not NHL ready.
It is going to be interesting if the players decertify, could we see a lawsuit from junior players who want to go to the AHL before age 20?

If there is no players association everyone would have to be treated as an individual, and at that point the NHL would be hard pressed to keep players with CHL teams.

Remember, this rule only applies to CHL players drafted out of the CHL, not Europeans or NCAA.

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12-03-2012, 02:44 PM
  #109
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He can got to camp he wont make the team.

Highly skilled,haven't seen a player like him in a long time.But I watched him in the Russia/WHL games and some of those moves he will get burned in the pro's.Last guy I saw on D at his level was Coffey.Even Leetch wasn't that powerful of a skater but had a better shot than Reilly.We won't be having any problems getting out of our zone once he hits the big show.You don't pass up on guys like this but his defense isn't ready yet.

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12-03-2012, 02:50 PM
  #110
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Morgan's doppleganger is on tsn doing a segment lol.

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12-04-2012, 04:36 PM
  #111
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I'm not convinced that Morgan wouldn't get torn apart defensively in the NHL.

I haven't seen him a ton (maybe 4 times + highlights) but he's just really soft defensively, but I guess if he can make up for it with strong stick-play then it doesn't matter. He'll definitely be invited to camp but he won't stick, regardless of how amazing he is (IMO). Next season for sure, though.

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12-04-2012, 05:07 PM
  #112
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I'm not convinced that Morgan wouldn't get torn apart defensively in the NHL.

I haven't seen him a ton (maybe 4 times + highlights) but he's just really soft defensively, but I guess if he can make up for it with strong stick-play then it doesn't matter. He'll definitely be invited to camp but he won't stick, regardless of how amazing he is (IMO). Next season for sure, though.
Not sure how you can really get much of a read on a player's defensive capability based primarily on highlights, since solid defensive play usually doesn't find its way onto a highlight reel.

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12-04-2012, 08:16 PM
  #113
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Not sure how you can really get much of a read on a player's defensive capability based primarily on highlights, since solid defensive play usually doesn't find its way onto a highlight reel.
My analysis of his defensive game is based on watching him play in a small handful of games, not highlights.

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12-04-2012, 08:18 PM
  #114
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My analysis of his defensive game is based on watching him play in a small handful of games, not highlights.
He definitely has strong stick play to make up for not playing overly physical.
Once he gets the puck, hes gone.

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12-05-2012, 12:27 AM
  #115
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Hockey Canada rewards Riellyís patience



His dreams of being part of Canadaís world junior hockey team were put on hold a year ago when he tore his anterior cruciate ligament and missed the majority of his draft year. He feels that the experience of sitting out and tirelessly working to get back in the lineup made him a better hockey player and a better person.

Now the first-round draft pick of the Toronto Maple Leafs pick is expected to be one of Canadaís top defencemen at the IIHF world junior hockey championship, Dec. 26-Jan. 5 in Ufa, Russia, but Rielly isnít looking that far ahead. On Monday, the Moose Jaw Warriors defenceman was one of 37 players invited to Canadaís world junior hockey team selection camp, Dec. 10-13 in Calgary.

"Iím concentrating on having a good camp and looking to prove myself again," Rielly said Monday. "Iím extremely happy to get the invite. Getting the chance to go to camp is a pretty huge honour for me. Itís going to be a pretty great experience playing with some high-end prospects again."


Rielly is one of 12 defencemen invited to camp to vie for what is traditionally seven spots on the blue line. He is joined by fellow WHLers Mathew Dumba (Red Deer), Derrick Pouliot (Portland), Griffin Reinhart (Edmonton) and Tyler Wotherspoon (Portland). Defencemen Dougie Hamilton and Scott Harrington both return from last yearís team.

Rielly was part of Hockey Canadaís summer development camp and took part in the Canada-Russia Challenge this past summer.

Rielly is second in WHL scoring among defenceman after tallying six goals and 26 points in 30 games thus far. He has scored twice in the last three games and had two assists in a win against Victoria a week ago.

"The team as a whole right now is playing well and that helps me a lot," said Rielly, who still wants to elevate his game before heading to camp in Calgary. "Thereís always some areas to improve on like playing a good two-way game and being harder to play against at times."


Courtesy : 4 Dec 2012 Leader-PostMATTHEW GOURLIE MOOSE JAW TIMES-HERALD

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12-05-2012, 06:51 AM
  #116
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He's had one full season of junior. One. Now we want him on the NHL team? C'mon, let's actually develop a player.

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12-06-2012, 04:23 PM
  #117
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The Moose Jaw Warriors just dumped defenseman Joel Edmundson on Kamloops for a 15 year old prospect, a first rounder and an undrafted 18 year old Tyler Bell. I wonder if this signals the start of a rebuild/firesale and if Morgan Rielly might be headed to a contender after the World Juniors?

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12-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
I'm not convinced that Morgan wouldn't get torn apart defensively in the NHL.

I haven't seen him a ton (maybe 4 times + highlights) but he's just really soft defensively, but I guess if he can make up for it with strong stick-play then it doesn't matter. He'll definitely be invited to camp but he won't stick, regardless of how amazing he is (IMO). Next season for sure, though.
I guess you haven't been a Leaf fan for very long.

This organization ALWAYS puts young guys, especially D, in the bigs as soon as they possibly can.

A lot of the reason for that is lack of talent, a perennial problem with the Maple Leafs for decades. The other reason is that they are one of the worst organizations in hockey at developing players -- again, especially D. That never seems to change no matter who's in charge.

You can bet Rielly will be a Leaf when hockey comes back, even if it's this season. Book it.

Who knows, maybe it might even be the right decision this time. The kid is pretty good.


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12-06-2012, 05:53 PM
  #119
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The Moose Jaw Warriors just dumped defenseman Joel Edmundson on Kamloops for a 15 year old prospect, a first rounder and an undrafted 18 year old Tyler Bell. I wonder if this signals the start of a rebuild/firesale and if Morgan Rielly might be headed to a contender after the World Juniors?
It will depend on the lockout.

No team is going give the haul for him if they know he'll be heading to Toronto when the lockout is finally done. If he does get traded you'd have to think now that Portland just got the massive fine and Kamloops has made their move it should/could make the Oil kings the front runners for him.


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12-06-2012, 06:35 PM
  #120
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I guess you haven't been a Leaf fan for very long.

This organization ALWAYS puts young guys, especially D, in the bigs as soon as they possibly can.

A lot of the reason for that is lack of talent, a perennial problem with the Maple Leafs for decades. The other reason is that they are one of the worst organizations in hockey at developing players -- again, especially D. That never seems to change no matter who's in charge.

You can bet Rielly will be a Leaf when hockey comes back, even if it's this season. Book it.

Who knows, maybe it might even be the right decision this time. The kid is pretty good.
It's actually pretty customary for top five picks to make it straight out of juniors.

2011:

RHN
Landeskog
Larsson

plus Couturier in the top ten playing in the NHL for a full season

2010:

Hall
Seguin

2009:

Tavares
Hedman
Duchene
Kane

2008:

Stamkos
Doughty
Bogosian
Schenn

2007:

Kane

2006:

Staal
Kessel

2005:

Crosby

So in summary, every year there's a couple of guys from the top five who play in the NHL. If Rielly looks like he's ready, he should make the team and get that 9 game audition. It's not like holding back the kid is automatically the right move just because you've avoided a situation where he's outright failed in the big leagues. Some of our kids who made it shortly out of the draft really didn't deserve to be here. I have no idea how Jiri Tlusty ever made the team, and Luke Schenn comes across as a player who is failing as a result of his own limited skillset and confidence issues. Before 2006, there aren't too many examples of Leaf first rounders pressed into duty before their time. It didn't happen with Boyes, Steen, Doherty, Pogge, Rask, Mitchell, Kadri, Ross, Biggs, Percy or anybody we drafted first in the 2000s. If you're referencing the 80s, it was a different time and 18 year olds often stepped in and made huge impacts with their teams, such as an 18 year old Tom Barrasso winning the Vezina, among other exploits.


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12-06-2012, 07:16 PM
  #121
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It's actually pretty customary for top five picks to make it straight out of juniors.

2011:

RHN
Landeskog
Larsson

plus Couturier in the top ten playing in the NHL for a full season

2010:

Hall
Seguin

2009:

Tavares
Hedman
Duchene
Kane

2008:

Stamkos
Doughty
Bogosian
Schenn

2007:

Kane

2006:

Staal
Kessel

2005:

Crosby

So in summary, every year there's a couple of guys from the top five who play in the NHL. If Rielly looks like he's ready, he should make the team and get that 9 game audition. It's not like holding back the kid is automatically the right move just because you've avoided a situation where he's outright failed in the big leagues. Some of our kids who made it shortly out of the draft really didn't deserve to be here. I have no idea how Jiri Tlusty ever made the team, and Luke Schenn comes across as a player who is failing as a result of his own limited skillset and confidence issues. Before 2006, there aren't too many examples of Leaf first rounders pressed into duty before their time. It didn't happen with Boyes, Steen, Doherty, Pogge, Rask, Mitchell, Kadri, Ross, Biggs, Percy or anybody we drafted first in the 2000s. If you're referencing the 80s, it was a different time and 18 year olds often stepped in and made huge impacts with their teams, such as an 18 year old Tom Barrasso winning the Vezina, among other exploits.
First off, I said nothing about top 5.

Schenn was clearly mishandled though, and Kadri looks to be headed on the same path straight out of the organization. you're also wrong about Steen, to name one.

The Leafs always rush the latest name in as soon as they can. Rielly will be no exception, bank on it.

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12-06-2012, 07:59 PM
  #122
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First off, I said nothing about top 5.

Schenn was clearly mishandled though, and Kadri looks to be headed on the same path straight out of the organization. you're also wrong about Steen, to name one.

The Leafs always rush the latest name in as soon as they can. Rielly will be no exception, bank on it.
I don't care if you said anything about top five picks, the fact remains players of that pedigree often make the bigs straight out of the draft, and with the exception of Schenn, most of those from the previous lockout who did make it are or are on their way to being impact players.

Steen wasn't rushed. I don't know what you're talking about. He was drafted in 2002 and made his debut in the NHL, a successful 45 point season, in 2005-06. He developed in the SEL for three years. The fact that he regressed says more about the environment and mishandling here than it does being thrown into the fire too early.

The Leafs don't "always rush the latest name as soon as they can." That's a simplification on the matter. The fact that guys like Pogge didn't make it is the result of them being flawed prospects as opposed to being brought along too quickly. I mean, here's a rundown off the top of my head of Leaf prospects over the years.

Nik Antropov: made the NHL in 2000 after being picked in 1998. He probably could have been groomed a little more thoroughly instead of seeing spot duty for so many years and never quite breaking out as a quality player, but it's not like he was ruined, having played 750 games at the NHL level.

Luca Cereda: wasn't rushed, didn't make it due to heart problems.

Brad Boyes: drafted in 2000, hadn't seen a minute of NHL action with Toronto as of 2003, when he was traded away.

Karel Pilar: drafted as a 23 year old European who was expected to jump straight into active duty, wasn't really rushed due to his advanced age when drafted. Just wasn't much of a player.

Carlo Colaiacovo: spent a lot of time in the OHL and AHL with spot call ups. In 2005-06, he spent 21 games in the NHL after being drafted in 2001.

Alex Steen: drafted in 2002, made his successful rookie debut in 2005-06.

Justin Pogge: overrated goaltending prospect was drafted in 2004, allowed to develop in the CHL, won awards there, won a gold in the WJC putting on a dominant performance, and then spent parts of three years in the AHL before making a lousy 7 game appearance in the NHL in 2008-09. Hardly rushed. He just sucked.

Anton Stralman: hailed as a highly skilled offensive defenseman, had a difficult up an down development curve in Toronto, but was drafted in 2005 and didn't make his NHL debut until 2007-08.

Jiri Tlusty: this guy was drafted in 2006 and made his NHL debut in 2007-08. Of all these players, he seemed to have been rushed the most, since he seemed like a kid with no ability to keep up with the competition on most nights. Kind of a victim of being here during the last days of JFJ and was dumped too early by Burke.

Dale Mitchell: a guy people had moderate hopes for who was basically a marginal prospect who never saw the light of day.

Matt Frattin: drafted in 2007, allowed to develop anonymously at the lower ranks as a low end prospect before turning pro in 2011-12.

Jimmy Hayes: highly touted prospect who slipped to the second round in 2008. Took the NCAA route and hadn't turned pro when the Leafs dumped him at the 2010 draft.

Luke Schenn: rushed for sure, but handled himself competently. Has since struggled to develop his skills and suffers from confidence issues.

Nazem Kadri: definitely not rushed. Has been given spot duty but hasn't been thrown to the fire at all. Some people charge that he's been held back too long.

Brad Ross: not rushed.

Jerry D'Amigo: probably rushed into the pros too early, but hasn't made an appearance on the big roster yet, so he's still a work in progress.

Tyler Biggs and Stuart Percy: not rushed.

Morgan Rielly: haven't even seen him in camp and people are afraid he's been rushed, which the above proves is a completely inaccurate and cliched depiction of Leafs development.

Fact is we haven't had a lot of quality being put into the system. The kids we bring up fail but are probably failing because they're marginal talents to begin with, not that they're future superstars who were ruined because they weren't coddled properly.

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12-06-2012, 09:36 PM
  #123
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He's had one full season of junior. One. Now we want him on the NHL team? C'mon, let's actually develop a player.
If a player is ready then he is ready.

Edit: Also, no one has said that he should be on the NHL team, just that he at least deserves to go to training camp. Honestly, what actual harm could it be to try him out and see how he fares against much tougher competition? Worst case he demonstrates that he's not ready for the pro's, but he gains experience playing at a higher level.


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12-06-2012, 09:56 PM
  #124
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If a player is ready then he is ready.

Edit: Also, no one has said that he should be on the NHL team, just that he at least deserves to go to training camp. Honestly, what actual harm could it be to try him out and see how he fares against much tougher competition? Worst case he demonstrates that he's not ready for the pro's, but he gains experience playing at a higher level.
Exactly. He should simply be evaluated at camp, assuming this camp ever materializes.

I also don't understand why the fact that he's played only one full junior season really matters. Clearly, he's evolved beyond where he was at in 2010-11.

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12-07-2012, 11:08 AM
  #125
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at this point if hockey were to resume i think it is less disruptive to let him just stick with his junior team. has training camp/pre season been in sept like normal then i see benefit to letting him have that taste of the pros and the experience of the a pre season.

i think he should be returned before playing an actual nhl game UNLESS he plays unreal. by unreal i mean better to gardiners performance that earned him a spot. there is a difference between gardiner and reillys situation in the sense that we are not desperate for reilly to play on the leafs, we could wait an extra season. gardiners mobility was needed. going into the season we have liles, gardiner, and gunnarson who are all mobile imo and phaneuf who is good enough. we really only have komisarek who is a pylon and possible holzer who i think is a better skater then komsiarek

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