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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part VIIII: "We're Close" "We're Not Close" Edition

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:01 PM
  #101
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I think this sums up the last 3 days:


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12-06-2012, 10:02 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCresty View Post
They should expand on the "No Bettman, no Fehr" policy.
24 hours without those two, we almost had a deal and made more progress than ever before.

Bring even just one of those two back in and now look at where we are.

Just get rid of them both and in the mean time, hire a baby sitter from the church as the mediator between the players and the owners.
Bettman was smart and didn't even want to take part.

The players were foolish and brought Fehr in.

They broke the momentum.

If a deal's going to get done, it's going to be without him.

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12-06-2012, 10:04 PM
  #103
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I hope the NHLPA decertifies and this is all fought out in court. I've lost so much respect for both sides that I just don't even care anymore. Blow it all up and start over.

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:05 PM
  #104
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Bill Daly said the compliance issues of amnesty/compliance buyouts and cap on escrow are "non-starters". Just 1 season of a cap transition at $70.2M. cap drops to $60M next season. In comparison,the NBA had 1 amnesty buyout per team for a player on the roster when the previous CBA ended,a cap of 10% on escrow and 2 year cap transition at $58,044,000. Those issues are "non-starters"? Also,the players in the AHL above a certain cap/salary figure will count against the cap. They haven't agreed on the number. Both sides have proposed it. The PA proposed players who signed SPCs in the new CBA counting. Not the existing contracts. If those are the parameters,cancel the season and next season. Wade Redden back on the cap if the NHL has their way. The PA has proposed 2 years at $67.25M. They want an amnesty/buyout period. The PA wants a cap on escrow. How can those be "non-starters"? Cancel the season.

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12-06-2012, 10:07 PM
  #105
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The original 6 should leave the NHL and start a league called "the original 6." won't be ANY money issues. would be great hockey. let the rest of the teams deal with the albatrosses in the american south.

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12-06-2012, 10:08 PM
  #106
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I still don't understand WHY compliance buyouts are a non-starter.

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12-06-2012, 10:09 PM
  #107
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Nice to see Don Fehr ruined it for the players.

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12-06-2012, 10:16 PM
  #108
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Quote:
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Nice to see Don Fehr ruined it for the players.
Hardly seems like that's the case.

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:17 PM
  #109
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This is not true. Fans come out to see their teams. Hockey players have the lowest Q score of all US pro sport athletes, and by a considerable margin. To give perspective, women's volleyball players have a higher rating than most.
I highly doubt that. I'd say the NBA has the lowest.

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:18 PM
  #110
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Hardly seems like that's the case.
Of course it's a two-street for the players and owners, but once Fehr got involved in the progression, it stopped. Bettman wisely stayed out of it. He and the owners take the blame too, but he stayed out of it and he knew if he or Fehr got involved, it'd all go in reverse.

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12-06-2012, 10:18 PM
  #111
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Fehr has Crosby, Toews, Richards, etc. strapped by the balls.

Time for the grinders to step up. Can't see them happy losing their not even 1mill paychecks.

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12-06-2012, 10:19 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger de FLA View Post
Bettman was smart and didn't even want to take part.

The players were foolish and brought Fehr in.

They broke the momentum.

If a deal's going to get done, it's going to be without him.
The deal is getting done with Don Fehr. This is the problem with the NHL. They demonize Fehr just like they demonized Bob Goodenow. Fehr has dealt with tougher guys than the characters in the NHL. Then Gary dismisses the "lack of trust" factor.

Those owners are a bunch of rich guys who never hear "NO". They got upset because the players did not accept their offer. They got upset and went home. If a deal is being done with Bettman,Daly and the Fehr brothers in the room. Not between a group of owners and a group of players.

I am glad it didn't get done now because the media would have gone crazy with Crosby and Burkle saving the NHL. Burkle was a down to earth guy. Really? He was beside himself when the players didn't jump at the offer. He sounds like the rich guy who lost the election last month. Not used to not getting his way.

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12-06-2012, 10:23 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
I highly doubt that. I'd say the NBA has the lowest.
The NBA has the highest. Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, etc.

I'm stating facts not my opinion.

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12-06-2012, 10:29 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
The NBA has the highest. Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, etc.

I'm stating facts not my opinion.
Lebron highest iq? I highly doubt that. He was driving gift cars and was a celebrity by the time he turned 17, you think he was studying?

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:31 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Lebron highest iq? I highly doubt that. He was driving gift cars and was a celebrity by the time he turned 17, you think he was studying?
1.) IQ isn't really helped by studying.
2.) That isn't what he's talking about.

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:32 PM
  #116
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Lebron highest iq? I highly doubt that. He was driving gift cars and was a celebrity by the time he turned 17, you think he was studying?
You misunderstood. Q score is a marketing measurement on a celebrity likability. It rates how popular tht athlete (or property) is to the general public.

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12-06-2012, 10:33 PM
  #117
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You misunderstood. Q score is a marketing measurement on a celebrity likability. It rates how popular tht athlete (or property) is to the general public.
Oh gotcha I apologize, yeah then I agree

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:37 PM
  #118
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It's times like this I wish I weren't a die-hard Rangers fan and just a guy who could just watch any hockey. But I can't. And I won't be able to show my anger at the NHL in quite the way other non-team-specific fans can.

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:48 PM
  #119
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But other than that... How was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

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12-06-2012, 10:48 PM
  #120
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Im curious here...what exactly have the players done to move to the owners side since all this began a few days ago?

Owners added 100 million dollars.

Owners back off on almost all player contract rules.

Owners back off on pension plan.


From what i'm reading and hearing it sure sounds like owners moved a helluva lot and the players didnt really do much at all.

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Old
12-06-2012, 10:53 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
No idea but judging from the dynamic of the NHL owners it's probably something like some teams being mad at other teams and trying to **** them over
Per Daly... The buyout money would come from the owners (more $ they're spending) and it wouldn't be included "in the system" ie not part of the 50/50 split, not from escrow... But directly from the owners' pockets.

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12-06-2012, 10:58 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The deal is getting done with Don Fehr. This is the problem with the NHL. They demonize Fehr just like they demonized Bob Goodenow. Fehr has dealt with tougher guys than the characters in the NHL. Then Gary dismisses the "lack of trust" factor.

Those owners are a bunch of rich guys who never hear "NO". They got upset because the players did not accept their offer. They got upset and went home. If a deal is being done with Bettman,Daly and the Fehr brothers in the room. Not between a group of owners and a group of players.

I am glad it didn't get done now because the media would have gone crazy with Crosby and Burkle saving the NHL. Burkle was a down to earth guy. Really? He was beside himself when the players didn't jump at the offer. He sounds like the rich guy who lost the election last month. Not used to not getting his way.
Yeah, negotiating is a disrespectful move? The owners are offended by a lackluster response to an offer? Where is that familiar from?

This generous make whole increase is $50m from the players for the pension plan.

Make whole is the compensation for the 50/50 split. Other than that, players are getting hotel rooms for a cap on years and variance, and additional calculators for the cap. Bottom 6 guys are buying the league rhetoric and mad at the top end. Meanwhile they are ready to roll over AHL players that will probably bolt to Europe or play for Slapshot pay. Revenue sharing and calculating the floor, supposed league concessions, help teams more than anything.

The owners keep harping on costs.... costs are fixed. Boom, 50%. Variance and term don't change their end. It's about control now.

Bettman had a gag order then at the same time everyone has the same press release. Where's the million dollar fine? Scripted and manipulation. Saw this 8 years ago.


Last edited by DutchShamrock: 12-06-2012 at 11:07 PM.
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Old
12-06-2012, 11:00 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Im curious here...what exactly have the players done to move to the owners side since all this began a few days ago?

Owners added 100 million dollars.

Owners back off on almost all player contract rules.

Owners back off on pension plan.


From what i'm reading and hearing it sure sounds like owners moved a helluva lot and the players didnt really do much at all.
Players accepted a cap on variance and term. Increased term on CBA. Kinda got lost I guess. Pension is funded by players...

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Old
12-06-2012, 11:01 PM
  #124
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$50m of the $100m increase is the pension plan. Funded by players. Its nice but it isn't what they are making it out to be.

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Old
12-06-2012, 11:06 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
Im curious here...what exactly have the players done to move to the owners side since all this began a few days ago?

Owners added 100 million dollars.

Owners back off on almost all player contract rules.

Owners back off on pension plan.


From what i'm reading and hearing it sure sounds like owners moved a helluva lot and the players didnt really do much at all.
NHL wanted 393 Million in make whole. Owners wanted 202. Adding 100 million from the owners is like the players taking 100 million less. So, both sides did move. The parts where owners put their foot in the ground (contract length, term of CBA, and no backdiving contracts) were not met by the players. Why should the players have to go exactly with the NHL, when they are backing off what they had initially wanted in the first place? Those aspects cannot be compromised like the others? 7 year limit on contracts is fine tbh and the players offered 8. The owners signed MANY players over the final days of the CBA to 6+ year contracts. They knew this would be something they wanted in the new CBA and made sure they got their current needs for deals in.

I still cannot side 100% with the players, but they appear to have made some concessions already, as has the NHL, but they all need to "win" the CBA negotiation instead of having the players on the ice. Fehr and Bettman are concerned with getting what they want still IMO. They do not need 5 year limits. They could collude on the contracts and not sign anyone more the 5 years. These are supposed to be smart men that cannot resolve these issues with simple compromise. It appears greed has taken over everyone and it is brainwashing them.

Best negotiations came without Fehr and Bettman. It is not surprising to be honest.

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