HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

With Fehr end-around, owners hit new low—and waste lead

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-06-2012, 11:15 PM
  #1
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,683
vCash: 500
With Fehr end-around, owners hit new low—and waste lead

Jesse Spector of The Sporting News:
Quote:
NHL lockout: With Fehr end-around, owners hit new low—and waste lead

NEW YORK—The cynical approach to this week's meetings between NHL players and owners, with Donald Fehr and Gary Bettman barred from the room, was that the billionaire businessmen were looking for an opportunity to put one over on their employees.

After a productive day on Tuesday that ended with the lieutenants, Steve Fehr and Bill Daly, giving a joint press conference, those worries were shuffled to the back burner. Turns out that was the deal all along, to hear Winnipeg Jets defenseman Ron Hainsey tell it.
Things were going swimmingly on Wednesday night. A few details needed to be hammered out, but the players felt confident with where talks were headed—confident enough that they suggested federal mediators return to help ‘polish this off,”as Hainsey said.
The owners declined.

"As confident as some of players are on their issues, we cannot close deals. I'd love to think I could,” Hainsey said, “We cannot."
Steve Fehr was there, but the job of closing the deal belongs to Donald Fehr. He is the executive director of the NHLPA, after all.
"Once we made clear that ... we had to get our union leadership, that we've hired for this, in the room, there was just a very big change," Hainsey said on Thursday, after talks broke down. "It was alarming, and I was told that if we were going to do that, it was possibly a dealbreaker. That was made clear last night. It was confusing, because we kind of agreed that we were moving toward each other, and we weren't that far apart. So, it's confusing for the players to think that we were supposed to finish this ourselves."

Hainsey was then asked to confirm, point blank, what he had just said: The owners told you that bringing Don Fehr into the room would be a dealbreaker for the progress you had achieved?
"That's correct," Hainsey said.
If they'd agreed to matters in principle, why would having Fehr involved (which any normal person would assume would be needed to close) matter to the owners?

This is entire thing is incredibly bizarre.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:24 PM
  #2
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 8,674
vCash: 500
So we have some media guys saying Fehr nixed a deal, now this says the deal was nixed because the owners did't want Fehr involved.

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:25 PM
  #3
LiquidSnake
Agent of Chaos...
 
LiquidSnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,595
vCash: 883
2 different stories. Impossible to trust either side

LiquidSnake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:32 PM
  #4
Heaton
#disapointment
 
Heaton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, MI
Country: United States
Posts: 16,969
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Heaton
On one hand, Hainsey is correct, on the other - the union hired a guy who can't close a deal to save his life. I'm glad the PA thinks they're united, but they're only hurting themselves at this point. Every time Fehr gets involved the talks take a giant step back.

Heaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:45 PM
  #5
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
On one hand, Hainsey is correct, on the other - the union hired a guy who can't close a deal to save his life. I'm glad the PA thinks they're united, but they're only hurting themselves at this point. Every time Fehr gets involved the talks take a giant step back.

Sure he can. He won't close a deal that let's the NHL bend the players over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
2 different stories. Impossible to trust either side

Which other version is there?

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:48 PM
  #6
TheMoreYouKnow
Registered User
 
TheMoreYouKnow's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Eire
Posts: 8,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
On one hand, Hainsey is correct, on the other - the union hired a guy who can't close a deal to save his life. I'm glad the PA thinks they're united, but they're only hurting themselves at this point. Every time Fehr gets involved the talks take a giant step back.
I'm not sure they can *technically* settle a deal without Fehr's approval. I mean you can't circumvent the NHLPA structure like that, can they? Surely they would have to "fire" Fehr first (and with him his brother)?

TheMoreYouKnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:50 PM
  #7
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 32,748
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Sure he can. He won't close a deal that let's the NHL bend the players over.




Which other version is there?
Daly's response

Quote:
@TSNRyanRishaug
Daly reaction to Hainsey saying owners told players that adding D. Fehr back in room could be a deal breaker.. “it was a reaction to the…
Quote:
@TSNRyanRishaug
…to players unilaterally terminating the players/owners-only dynamic, and telling us (2 or 3 times) that their decision was non-negotiable..
Quote:
@TSNRyanRishaug
..totally within their rights to do, but response of our owners was “if that’s the case, don’t expect us to stay involved.”

joshjull is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2012, 11:51 PM
  #8
Freudian
Patty likes beef
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 29,180
vCash: 50
Bill Daly has already clarified the Hainsey comment. If NHLPA wanted Fehr back in the room, the owner-player meeting would end. The NHLPA insisted and the owners flew home.

It was a dealbreaker for the owner-player thingy, nothing else. But good effort by Hainsey trying to make it into a big thing.

Freudian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:00 AM
  #9
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,050
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Jesse Spector of The Sporting News:


If they'd agreed to matters in principle, why would having Fehr involved (which any normal person would assume would be needed to close) matter to the owners?

This is entire thing is incredibly bizarre.
Does something like this matter?

adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"

Krishna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:15 AM
  #10
IslesNorway
Registered User
 
IslesNorway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,808
vCash: 500
So in essence this is all down to one man: Fehr?

Somehow I wish the NHL's response right now would be to cancel the entire season so the players simply lose out on everything.

IslesNorway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:19 AM
  #11
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Does something like this matter?

adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"
Fehr has really overplayed his hand. Now the players will only lose more. Moderate owners have removed themselves from the process.

I fully expect Bettman to come back with an offer that is less than what Fehr just turned down with a deadline to take it, or the season will be cancelled.

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:26 AM
  #12
DuklaNation
Registered User
 
DuklaNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
Fehr's job should be to try to get the best possible deal for the players. It shouldnt be to try to win the deal at the expense of the players. The players have themselves to blame. They knew Fehr's modus operandi. Im sure many of them have vacations booked already.

DuklaNation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:33 AM
  #13
oilexport
Registered User
 
oilexport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 872
vCash: 500
It does seem like every proposal has died on Don Fehr's pen. The Fans, NHL, and Players will all suffer because this guy has to squeeze as much as he can from the NHL.

Don Fehr must want to decertify and blow things up. Don does not want to make this deal. It's quite clear.

oilexport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:37 AM
  #14
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,050
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilexport View Post
It does seem like every proposal has died on Don Fehr's pen. The Fans, NHL, and Players will all suffer because this guy has to squeeze as much as he can from the NHL.

Don Fehr must want to decertify and blow things up. Don does not want to make this deal. It's quite clear.
Funny that you say that. Bettman even said that in his speech today

Krishna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:38 AM
  #15
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,694
vCash: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
Jesse Spector of The Sporting News:


If they'd agreed to matters in principle, why would having Fehr involved (which any normal person would assume would be needed to close) matter to the owners?

This is entire thing is incredibly bizarre.
Sorry unfortunately this time the guys weren't just Jacobs and Bettman. Seems especially from statements that Tanenbaum, Burkle, Vinik and Chipman. Sorry but who comes out the bad guys in this are a little different when one group has actually changed a lot of the primaries and the other side hasn't done so and wants to bring back in one of the problems.

It shouldn't come as a surprise or bizarre either, Fehr has basically been poison to owners and a desire to not want to be around him for about 30 years in the sports world. You might not agree with the treatment or reputation he gets from owners but a lot of it is earned.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:41 AM
  #16
Killion
Global Moderator
 
Killion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Morocco
Country: Morocco
Posts: 22,094
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
This entire thing is incredibly bizarre.
Certainly is. I mean, what were the owners expecting? That theyd reach an accord, draft a new CBA themselves, get the players to sign on lock stock & barrel, neither side running it by Fehr, Bettman, legal council etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
adater ‏@adater From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"
These Deep Throats really need to step out from the shadows & into the light. Subversion of this nature is beyond suspect.

Killion is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:46 AM
  #17
Cloned
Sexy Genesis
 
Cloned's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 21,914
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Certainly is. I mean, what were the owners expecting? That theyd reach an accord, draft a new CBA themselves, get the players to sign on lock stock & barrel, neither side running it by Fehr, Bettman, legal council etc?
I think they were hoping that the players would consider keeping the player-owner dynamic for a while longer in order to make more progress before bringing in the leaders.

Quote:
These Deep Throats really need to step out from the shadows & into the light. Subversion of this nature is beyond suspect.
I don't blame them. No one wants to voice a dissenting opinion publically because they saw what happened to Hamrlik.

__________________

Sig AND X-mas avatar courtesy of The Nemesis

"Pull yourself together!" - Solid Snake to Otacon, multiple times in the series
Cloned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:47 AM
  #18
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,694
vCash: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Certainly is. I mean, what were the owners expecting? That theyd reach an accord, draft a new CBA themselves, get the players to sign on lock stock & barrel, neither side running it by Fehr, Bettman, legal council etc?



These Deep Throats really need to step out from the shadows & into the light. Subversion of this nature is beyond suspect.
After the backlash on Hamrlik an 18 year vet, I doubt it.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:48 AM
  #19
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,050
vCash: 50
Wait, what did I miss with Hamrlik? What did he say?

edit : just saw it

Apparently Neuvirth agreed

Krishna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:52 AM
  #20
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 17,694
vCash: 515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Wait, what did I miss with Hamrlik? What did he say?
Not sure if you're serious with the amount you are around here but,

Quote:
"I am disgusted. We have to push Fehr to the wall to get the deal. Time is against us. We lost (a quarter of the) season, it is $425 million. Who will give it back to us? Mr. Fehr?" Hamrlik was quoted as saying.

"There should be voting between players. Four questions—YES or NO—then count it. If half of players say let's play, then they should sign new CBA. If there is no season he should leave and we will find someone new. Time is our enemy."
Quote:
Hamrlik's words sparked plenty of responses from fellow NHLPA members, most of whom disagreed with his assessment. Montreal Canadiens forward Erik Cole called Hamrlik’s comments “the most selfish thing I’ve heard during the lockout.”
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...a-gary-bettman

Felt pretty bad about what everyone said in response. He just voiced his opinion and thought he had the right to do it with his long service and having sat through three of these. Was not looked on real well by his fellow NHLPA members though.

The Zetterberg Era is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 12:59 AM
  #21
Habaneros
Habs Cup champs 2010
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
2 different stories. Impossible to trust either side

do we believe Bettman sayin Kings not for sale?..lol



May 30, 2012
http://msn.foxsports.com/nhl/story/G...inances-053012
Quote:
His strongest words were directed toward the New York Post for a report that the Kings were for sale.

“It never ceases to amaze me when a newspaper writes a story and the principles involved absolutely deny it, and they can be the only source. The Post was told both by Tim Leiweke and by [the league] that the story was categorically untrue; the Kings are not for sale. But they said they had their own sources so they decided to go ahead with the story,” Bettman said. “The story is not true.”



Sept 2012
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...kings-for-sale
Quote:
NHL lockout: Stanley Cup champion Los Angeles Kings for sale
Published on Tuesday September 18, 2012 ]

Habaneros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:06 AM
  #22
Ernie
Registered User
 
Ernie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 10,051
vCash: 500
This is beyond absurd. They're willing to torpedo a possible deal because they don't like Donald Fehr? But they have no problem with Steve Fehr.

We're somehow supposed to believe the players are wrong to vilify Bettman, but the owners, who are supposed to be level headed businessmen, behave this way?

This smells much more like Bettman and Jacobs trying to kill a deal they don't like and pinning the blame it on Fehr. Again. Isn't this playbook getting somewhat predictable at this point?

Ernie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:11 AM
  #23
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Daly's response

He's saying the same thing--- if you bring D Fehr back in, which you have a right to do, we're taking our puck and going home.

Daly's words need to be studied carefully:
Quote:
players unilaterally terminating the players/owners-only dynamic
How long was this players/owners-only dynamic supposed to go? Until a CBA was signed/approved--- outside the structure of the NHLPA? The NHL owners cannot approve a CBA outside their constitution.

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:12 AM
  #24
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Bill Daly has already clarified the Hainsey comment. If NHLPA wanted Fehr back in the room, the owner-player meeting would end. The NHLPA insisted and the owners flew home.

It was a dealbreaker for the owner-player thingy, nothing else. But good effort by Hainsey trying to make it into a big thing.

It was an accurate portrayal of why talks shut down. Owners wanted the players to make a deal without their PA head (and outside their NHLPA constitution).

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2012, 01:13 AM
  #25
Fugu
Administrator
HFBoards
 
Fugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Pac NW
Country:
Posts: 29,683
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Does something like this matter?

adater ‏@adater
From deep inside players side: "We were ready to play again. But Don came in (Wed.) and told us we could get more and to hold out"

I don't know. It's a single data point right now. If something actually comes of it, then yes. Does what Scottie Upshall said matter?

Fugu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.