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Old
12-06-2012, 10:59 PM
  #376
Ron
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Owner's statements.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=647180

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12-06-2012, 11:08 PM
  #377
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its funny to read the owners statements and then the players tweets. two totally different IQ levels.

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12-06-2012, 11:15 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
It's quite the opposite. The Players have already accepted a smaller piece. A significantly smaller piece. This is all about the owners trying to get the biggest piece it can.
How is that Boston reporter's prediction working for you now?

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12-06-2012, 11:15 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
its funny to read the owners statements and then the players tweets. two totally different IQ levels.
Billions vs. millions (or hundreds of thousands).

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12-06-2012, 11:17 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
How is that Boston reporter's prediction working for you now?
Am I supposed to feel shame about this? I'm not the one who made the prediction. He obviously had no idea what he was talking about. You should go ask him how he feels about it... Interesting comment.

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12-06-2012, 11:21 PM
  #381
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Well the players just threw away all hope of playing hockey (in the NHL) this season. How sad. I hope they realize what a foolish decision they made.

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12-06-2012, 11:41 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
I am assuming that your trying to imply that the players are being completely unreasonable.. My point is the NHL has now decided to totally blow up talks, when both sides will admit that they were indeed very close to an agreement. Would you characterize those actions as reasonable.. Further, this is obviously being done by the league as a negotiating strategy to squeeze even more out of the Union, because I still find it hard to believe that they would honestly inflict the MASSIVE potential damage that would come with canceling another year. Thus, if your argument is that the Players are being greedy, well I would say the facts do not certainly favor your position, as the only concessions that have been made during this entire negotiation has come from only one side.
That doesnt seem to be the case.

http://watch.tsn.ca/clip820675#clip822014

How are they "squeezing more out of the union" when they are adding an extra 100mill to "make whole" as well the other concessions they made in the last couple of days?

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12-06-2012, 11:49 PM
  #383
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So we have moderate owners getting frustrated and leaving, and reports of anonymous players saying that Fehr squashed the progress that was made Tuesday because he wants to continue to hold out for a better deal..... NHLPA have lost their minds!

Also, players need to keep off of twitter (I'm looking at you Scottie Upshall)

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12-06-2012, 11:57 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That doesnt seem to be the case.

http://watch.tsn.ca/clip820675#clip822014

How are they "squeezing more out of the union" when they are adding an extra 100mill to "make whole" as well the other concessions they made in the last couple of days?
Are they really making any concessions though? Wouldn't making concessions entail the players benefiting over their current position, meaning the last CBA. I think it is important to remember, and point out for some of you (not necessarily you by the way), that the owners are not making concessions when they started their offer at the 50 yard line, and are slowly moving back to the 30 yard line, except that the 30 yard line is still a net benefit. Some of the other posters on this message board are giving the owners credit, because they seem to be making all of these big concessions, but really, they are just rewarding them for starting out at such an unreasonable bargaining position to begin with. Negotiating 101, start off with a low ball offer, and work your way back. Except in this case, in the end one side will benefit on pretty much every major issue, the other will lose on pretty much every single issue, and yet some here say the side that will benefit is being the more reasonable party. It doesn't make sense, it illogical, its simple thinking. Plain and simple. You can't argue with the facts.

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12-07-2012, 12:07 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Martyros View Post
If anyone read Adater's tweet...a deep inside player source said that the players were rdy to play until Don came in Wednesday night and told them to holdout for more...

adater ‏@adater
This depth player is wicked smart though. May put his name to comments soon. Sorry for anonymous tilt to this. not my style
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More
4m adater ‏@adater
....privately, they are feeling powerless as the Ryan Millers and Brad Richards of the world pretend this is a sacrifice for them
Expand
5m adater ‏@adater
Bottom line here: Players say they are unified, but not what I'm hearing from this depth player. They'll deny that publicly, but...
I would go with Westgarth on this. Not that it really matters though.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:08 AM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
Are they really making any concessions though? Wouldn't making concessions entail the players benefiting over their current position, meaning the last CBA. I think it is important to remember, and point out for some of you (not necessarily you by the way), that the owners are not making concessions when they started their offer at the 50 yard line, and are slowly moving back to the 30 yard line, except that the 30 yard line is still a net benefit. Some of the other posters on this message board are giving the owners credit, because they seem to be making all of these big concessions, but really, they are just rewarding them for starting out at such an unreasonable bargaining position to begin with. Negotiating 101, start off with a low ball offer, and work your way back. Except in this case, in the end one side will benefit on pretty much every major issue, the other will lose on pretty much every single issue, and yet some here say the side that will benefit is being the more reasonable party. It doesn't make sense, it illogical, its simple thinking. Plain and simple. You can't argue with the facts.
Did you not say this?

Quote:
My point is the NHL has now decided to totally blow up talks, when both sides will admit that they were indeed very close to an agreement. Would you characterize those actions as reasonable.. Further, this is obviously being done by the league as a negotiating strategy to squeeze even more out of the Union
Seems strange that the owners would "blow up" the talks as a ploy to stick it to the union a day after adding an extra hundred million dollars to the make whole provision that the players had asked for in the first place.

If you listen to the press conference I linked to, you will see that the owner's reps go into pretty good detail about what was offered, and what was non-negotiable from their pov.

That same link will also take you to the nhlpa's presser, which was much more abbreviated, as well as being vague and short on specifics.

It is also interesting to note that any progress was halted and momentum went from positive to negative after Fehr insisted on actively participating in the players/owners talks. One day later and the whole thing is in the dirt with no new talks scheduled.

From where I sit it seems the owners are the one's who are ready to make a deal, and the players union and Fehr in particular is more interested in dragging this out. If you look at where both sides started from, it is the owners who have moved the most towards the player's position, not the other way around.

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12-07-2012, 12:13 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Did you not say this?



Seems strange that the owners would "blow up" the talks as a ploy to stick it to the union a day after adding an extra hundred million dollars to the make whole provision that the players had asked for in the first place.

If you listen to the press conference I linked to, you will see that the owner's reps go into pretty good detail about what was offered, and what was non-negotiable from their pov.

That same link will also take you to the nhlpa's presser, which was much more abbreviated, as well as being vague and short on specifics.

It is also interesting to note that any progress was halted and momentum went from positive to negative after Fehr insisted on actively participating in the players/owners talks. One day later and the whole thing is in the dirt with no new talks scheduled.

From where I sit it seems the owners are the one's who are ready to make a deal, and the players union and Fehr in particular is more interested in dragging this out. If you look at where both sides started from, it is the owners who have moved the most towards the player's position, not the other way around.
Can you name a single issue where the players' will receive a greater benefit than they did under the previous CBA? Just one? How can you argue that it has been the owners who have compromised more, and yet they will receive a greater benefit than they received in the last CBA on pretty much every single major issue.

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12-07-2012, 12:32 AM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
Can you name a single issue where the players' will receive a greater benefit than they did under the previous CBA? Just one? How can you argue that it has been the owners who have compromised more, and yet they will receive a greater benefit than they received in the last CBA on pretty much every single major issue.
You are moving the goalposts.

Im addressing some points you made in your post that are/seem to be erroneous.

You said both sides admitted to being very close to an agreement. Not according to Gary Bettman as per the press conference. In fact he was appalled and taken aback that Fehr would even suggest such a thing when that clearly isnt the case or there would already be an agreement in place or at the very least they would still be talking.

You also said that the owners were purposely scuttling talks as a ploy to "squeeze more" out of the union. This has also been refuted and most likely is nothing more than baseless speculation on your part.

As per this particular post, not sure they are going to get any gains over the last cba and really, why should they? I cant think of any profitable businesses that give their employees 57% of the gross revenue. Can you? Meanwhile the players can act hard done by as they watch their pay periods whiz by with no paychecks.

Obviously they havent learned much from past history. The owners will get what they want in the end. It is inevitable. They have offered a fair deal and the future offers are likely to only get worse from a player's perspective.

Im not on anyone's side. Quite frankly I dont have any time for players or owners. My hope is that they see half empty buildings for the next five years. Maybe then they wont take the fans for granted anymore?

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12-07-2012, 01:08 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
You are moving the goalposts.

Im addressing some points you made in your post that are/seem to be erroneous.

You said both sides admitted to being very close to an agreement. Not according to Gary Bettman as per the press conference. In fact he was appalled and taken aback that Fehr would even suggest such a thing when that clearly isnt the case or there would already be an agreement in place or at the very least they would still be talking.

You also said that the owners were purposely scuttling talks as a ploy to "squeeze more" out of the union. This has also been refuted and most likely is nothing more than baseless speculation on your part.

As per this particular post, not sure they are going to get any gains over the last cba and really, why should they? I cant think of any profitable businesses that give their employees 57% of the gross revenue. Can you? Meanwhile the players can act hard done by as they watch their pay periods whiz by with no paychecks.

Obviously they havent learned much from past history. The owners will get what they want in the end. It is inevitable. They have offered a fair deal and the future offers are likely to only get worse from a player's perspective.

Im not on anyone's side. Quite frankly I dont have any time for players or owners. My hope is that they see half empty buildings for the next five years. Maybe then they wont take the fans for granted anymore?
The majority of owners, or the one's that matter.

Don't care about playing Hockey. It's costing them money. They can simply rent the space to concerts ETC.

I wish the players would understand that.

Fehr looks to have sabotaged the very people he represents.

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12-07-2012, 01:59 AM
  #390
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In regards to GB, I guarantee that whthere there is games or not this year the NHL will make him a martyr and sacrafice him to the fans. It will be a thanks, here is a parting gift, now please go away situation.

That is the first thing that I would do if I was a PR director of the NHL in order to get the fans back. GB is absolutely hated by the fans. He is hated by the players. He has made some verbal blunders to the media that no other professional would do and it's bit him in the ass. He has been disrespectfull directly and indirectly to the players. He has created a contentiousness where the players believe they can't trust a thing he ever says or his intentions. GB is an assasin and he has done exactly what he was hired to do. Every war needs a man to get his hands dirty and GB was that man. I'm not knocking him but he will have to be sacraficed as the first step to getting the fans and the sponsors back.
The owners would be idiots to get rid of Bettman. Bettman takes all the flak the owners don't get.

They pay him 8 million to take ALL the heat. You don't hear a whole lot of fans mad at owners.

There is no guarantee Bill daily will be as good, as calm as Bettman.

What if your next comminish throws the owners under the bus at some point ? Would you take that risk as an owner ?

The owners know what they have in Bettman, and he is good at his job.

Sponsers and Fans are not motivated by or discouraged by a commish. Sponsors only care about how much exsposure a league is generating. Hockey fans will stay Hockey fans. They are not going to stop being STH because of a Commish.

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12-07-2012, 02:03 AM
  #391
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So without reading any of the debates you guys have been having today, will tomorrow give us any hope?

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12-07-2012, 02:07 AM
  #392
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So without reading any of the debates you guys have been having today, will tomorrow give us any hope?
Unless the depth players get involved, this season is over.

The players like Westgarth, Stoll (the majority of the NHLPA) start to demand a deal. This season is canceled.

The owners will make money regardless. The players are losing their shirts every month the NHL misses.

The fact that Toronto (minority owner) and Pitts Representative walked away Angry....Is not good news for the players.

If any Team in this league was going to be on your side as a player, it was Toronto... The players burned an important bridge

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12-07-2012, 03:02 AM
  #393
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So without reading any of the debates you guys have been having today, will tomorrow give us any hope?
The only way I see this season getting saved soon is if the players come out as a whole not the Crosbys or the toews the whole nhl that claim they were ready then they can put it to a vote for an majority agreement without Fehr. But right now it looks like fehrs got them by the balls. It's really sad this entire argument is for the minority of the players.

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12-07-2012, 04:52 AM
  #394
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No Pressure On NHL Owners And Players To Reach Agreement On New CBA

Some thoughts after Thursday's debacle...

No Pressure On NHL Owners And Players To Reach Agreement On New CBA

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12-07-2012, 06:51 AM
  #395
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Ive been saying that for years.

The NFL wouldn't have dreamed of missing ANY GAMES.

Their is a Multi Billion Dollar T.V. deal at steak. They wouldn't dare upset the NFL fan.

The NHL has no such big money deal to break, or lose out on.

Their is a waiting list in Toronto/MTL for season tickets. Th fans of the franchises that Matter. Are not going ANYWHERE.

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12-07-2012, 07:17 AM
  #396
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Don cherry said it best.

" Ive known Gary Bettman a long time, his anger last night was not an act" All the NHLPA did this week was turn the Dove owners into hawks"...

"I guess I will be watching a lot of Marlies hockey this year". -Don Cherry.

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12-07-2012, 08:52 AM
  #397
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Fehr is a lit match in a barn full of hay. He's not there to make a deal, but to make a point.

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12-07-2012, 09:18 AM
  #398
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Fehr is a lit match in a barn full of hay. He's not there to make a deal, but to make a point.
I fail to see one point that he has made for himself or the players he represents.

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12-07-2012, 09:43 AM
  #399
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Yesterday was so entertaining, yet so depressing. I've never seen GB like that. That wasn't primarily anger towards Fehr or the NHLPA, that was frustration. Frustration with a process that was moving along nicely until a change was inexplicably made.

Process going good, players and owners meeting.

S. Fehr/Daly at podium together, wow, things going nicely

Moderate owners, who are known to want to play and solve this, are positive.

The next day, despite progress being made, players insist on changing format. Mood changes. Things blow up.

I'm far from GB's biggest fan, but that PC was the complete and utter truth. It mirrors exactly what was said by the moderate owners, some of who were incredulous and visibly pissed at what had happened. No rebuttal by Fehr. No response so far. No denying anything that Bettman said. The players' were not commenting after his PC, but their body language said all that needed to be. I'm curious to hear what the players' response is to GB, if there even is one.

If I'm a guy who just wants to play, I'm pretty upset right now. The representatives at that meeting just completely alienated every ally they had on the owners side. When owners like Toronto are angry, guys that have everything to lose with a lockout, you know that what transpired was completely self-destructive by the NHLPA.

My take, anyways. Surprisingly, I don't think this will impact whether we have a season or not. There are always one of these big eye openers in any CBA negotiation, usually close to the time a deal is made.

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12-07-2012, 10:20 AM
  #400
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I am interested in seeing what the owners do now.

Cause you know Jeremy Jacobs is silently laughing right now, with the thought in his head of (I told you so).


Jacobs now gets to learn over to Burkle ; and the moderate ,dove owners and say, " You had your chance, can I please now do my job and crush this Union"?

This was not a smart move by the NHLPA.

The whole premise of the make whole, and leaving RFA,UFA,arbitration alone. Was so the players would say yes to: A CBA that is 10 years (8 opt out) five and seven contract term.

So what do the players do ? They come back and say "we shall take it now move more on those very items".

I can now understand why those moderate owners were insulted(the stuff they gave on ,had to be sold to the rest of the owners).

Like wise when the moderate players moved on HHR, and the owners flat out rejected the whole offer.

So were do the owners and players go from here ?

This owners ship group does not have enough votes to ok a CBA that is marginal. There is not enough owners motivated to just get a deal done.

When about 12 of your owners would rather not play hockey AT ALL; that is a serious problem for trying to give in CBA talks.

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