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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal 2.0

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12-06-2012, 03:14 PM
  #26
Bob Kudelski
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I follow Mika on twitter and instagram and I get the impression that he just needs to mature a bit more as a person. This isn't a knock against him, just the reality for a 19 year old. He's just a boy! I bet he starts lighting the lamp towards the end of the year, and comes back as a top AHLer or solid NHLer next season at only 20 years old. He's so young, the sky's the limit.

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12-06-2012, 03:20 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Couturier had a very impressive season. I never said anything else.
As for Zibanejad being one of the most NHL ready prospects - sure, maybe physically, but he was a guy who jumped 20 spots in a matter of months due to a new found offensive flair. His offensive skill was so incredibly raw and he was most definitely referred to as a project. I sense a little revisionist history here. Couturier was supposed to go #1 overall, largely because of his NHL readiness. Zibanejad had just jumped 20 spots because he displayed a flash of raw offensive ability.
If you can't distinguish the difference there I have nothing left to say. Hell, at this point I expect Couturier to be a bit better but your side of this argument is equally ludicrous as saying Zibanejad will definitely be better than Sean.
I don't think I ever said that Zibanejad won't be better, certainly not that he can't be. I said that a season like Couturier's would be hard to duplicate, because of how extremely tough his assignments were and who he played them with.

I know what people are trying to say when they use the words "raw" and "project", but I was trying to get a little less vague of a definition. It's basically offensive talent that might be there if development goes well, but isn't necessarily there right now, which would make him a project, agreed?

Zibanejad jumped a lot of spots because he was playing the hockey of his career basically, as a rookie for Djurgården, playing all kinds of situations and doing well in all aspects of the game. "If he's this good now, what can he accomplish in 15 years?" kinda logic applied and he rose, like anyone would.

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12-06-2012, 03:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Starting to believe the most overrated prospect on this board is Sean Couturier.

Still not in love with him as much as you guys..
Agreed. I can't believe people were so surprised at him doing well in the NHL last season. He's a 1992, meaning he's a year older than Zbad, and played an unspectacular, although solid two-way game in his draft year. Most major publications commented on his NHL readiness, yet so many people were still shocked to see him in the NHL at 19.

It was never a question of whether he'd make the NHL. It was always a question of how much better he'd get once he made the team. While he's a solid 3rd line player now, I do question his overall upside. Pretty mediocre offensive game, and an overrated defensive game. He's a pretty average skater too.

I think Couturier still would have been a better pick than Zibanejad, but that doesn't stop him from being very overrated. He's been compared to Eric Staal and Anze Kopitar; I just don't see that kind of upside in him.

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12-06-2012, 03:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Either that or they wanted to test him out in key situations before a decision had to be made, or he just felt at the time Zibanejad would give them a better chance to win. I don't know if Paul MacLean telling the media that he wanted him to stay means that he would've been a key player for the Sens, as Couturier was for the Flyers.

And, sorry for people getting tired of Couturier vs. Zibanejad discussion, but if the discussion is there, I want to chime in.
Not suggesting he was ready to play the role Couturier did for the Flyers. Couturier also played 3 years of major junior, 1 more than most prospects, before heading to the NHL. Zibanejad played some junior in Sweden and half a year or so in the top league.

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12-06-2012, 03:49 PM
  #30
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Ok, can we please leave Couturier out of the rest of this thread?

We should have picked him, we didn't so let's move on. There is no need to invent weaknesses in his game. Let's try to focus on our guy, and try to avoid the coulda shoulda woulda game.

Seriously, if there is anyone on this board that wouldn't change the pick if they could...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.

Zbad needs to improve. There is no doubt about that. Will he?

I hope so.

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12-06-2012, 03:54 PM
  #31
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It's gonna be a real key month for him, returning to action this weekend. I don't know how it would be for him if he struggled this month, watching his fellow Swedes play for the gold in Russia. Maybe failing to make the big club (knock on wood).

Edit: Last part was poorly written, but you know what I mean. :-)

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12-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
It's gonna be a real key month for him, returning to action this weekend. I don't know how it would be for him if he struggled this month, watching his fellow Swedes play for the gold in Russia. Maybe failing to make the big club (knock on wood).

Edit: Last part was poorly written, but you know what I mean. :-)
Yeah I know what you mean. I guess if he went the radio was saying he'd miss 26 days With the B sens and 12 games. I think they are looking for long term development and stability.

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12-06-2012, 04:09 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Yeah I know what you mean. I guess if he went the radio was saying he'd miss 26 days With the B sens and 12 games. I think they are looking for long term development and stability.
Yes, I agree with the decision from a pure hockey standpoint disregarding feelings and opinions of the player.

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12-06-2012, 04:11 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Ok, can we please leave Couturier out of the rest of this thread?

We should have picked him, we didn't so let's move on. There is no need to invent weaknesses in his game. Let's try to focus on our guy, and try to avoid the coulda shoulda woulda game.

Seriously, if there is anyone on this board that wouldn't change the pick if they could...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.

Zbad needs to improve. There is no doubt about that. Will he?

I hope so.
There's nothing wrong with comparing prospects. There is, however, something wrong with saying that your opinion is the only one that matters. If the draft were re-done today, I'd still take Zibby Stardust. We had no way of knowing that we'd have such a successful season last year, and my money is still on Z-bad as the better long-term asset to the team.

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12-06-2012, 04:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Ok, can we please leave Couturier out of the rest of this thread?

We should have picked him, we didn't so let's move on. There is no need to invent weaknesses in his game. Let's try to focus on our guy, and try to avoid the coulda shoulda woulda game.

Seriously, if there is anyone on this board that wouldn't change the pick if they could...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.

Zbad needs to improve. There is no doubt about that. Will he?

I hope so.
Inventing weanesses? Couturier needs to improve offensively. He only scored 27 points last year. Will he?

It only makes sense that he will, he's ****ing 19 or 20.

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12-06-2012, 04:20 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Ok, can we please leave Couturier out of the rest of this thread?

We should have picked him, we didn't so let's move on. There is no need to invent weaknesses in his game. Let's try to focus on our guy, and try to avoid the coulda shoulda woulda game.

Seriously, if there is anyone on this board that wouldn't change the pick if they could...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.

Zbad needs to improve. There is no doubt about that. Will he?

I hope so.
I highly doubt that anything that has happened with couturier and zibanejad has been completely unexpected to ottawa management. I also highly doubt that they would change their pick based on what has happened to this point.
And anyone coming to conclusions about who the better player will be or whether we made a mistake or not by taking zibanejad and not taking couturier is, ...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.

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12-06-2012, 04:22 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
I highly doubt that anything that has happened with couturier and zibanejad has been completely unexpected to ottawa management. I also highly doubt that they would change their pick based on what has happened to this point.
I think they've already indicated they would have selected a defensemen.

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12-06-2012, 04:22 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Holmes View Post
Ok, can we please leave Couturier out of the rest of this thread?

We should have picked him, we didn't so let's move on. There is no need to invent weaknesses in his game. Let's try to focus on our guy, and try to avoid the coulda shoulda woulda game.

Seriously, if there is anyone on this board that wouldn't change the pick if they could...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.

Zbad needs to improve. There is no doubt about that. Will he?

I hope so.
With this logic Hedman > OEL

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12-06-2012, 04:24 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
I think they've already indicated they would have selected a defensemen.
i was more talking about zib vs. couturier. and based on what has happened with each of them to this point.

but yeah, hamilton would have been nice.

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12-06-2012, 04:25 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
I highly doubt that anything that has happened with couturier and zibanejad has been completely unexpected to ottawa management. I also highly doubt that they would change their pick based on what has happened to this point.
And anyone coming to conclusions about who the better player will be or whether we made a mistake or not by taking zibanejad and not taking couturier is, ...well...I won't be able to finish that sentence without getting in trouble.
This is true, nobody can precict the future, but we're all entitled to our own opinions and projections based on the information we have. Therefore we can't say anyone is either right or wrong. I do think, however, that most that have followed both of the players over time would pick Couturier without blinking, but I can't blame anyone who doesn't, because, as you say, we can't know anything for sure.

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12-06-2012, 04:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Icelevel View Post
i was more talking about zib vs. couturier. and based on what has happened with each of them to this point.

but yeah, hamilton would have been nice.
I think you might be right, but that may just be because I think Tim Murray may be a stubborn guy.

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12-06-2012, 06:39 PM
  #42
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I was re-watching the beginning of last season's games and 2 players that stuck out were Regin and Zibanejad. Zibanejad made some beauty set-ups, hit the crossbar and was robbed a couple times off marvelous one-timers. Regin was everywhere, utilized on most lines and came clutch when the team needed a goal or a big play that lead to a goal. Damn, Greening is something else. A tank that can do it all.

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12-06-2012, 06:56 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I was re-watching the beginning of last season's games and 2 players that stuck out were Regin and Zibanejad. Zibanejad made some beauty set-ups, hit the crossbar and was robbed a couple times off marvelous one-timers. Regin was everywhere, utilized on most lines and came clutch when the team needed a goal or a big play that lead to a goal. Damn, Greening is something else. A tank that can do it all.
Obviously stuck out because of how far he was from being an NHL player. Or at least that's what Trollness was spewing.

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12-07-2012, 12:35 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Obviously stuck out because of how far he was from being an NHL player. Or at least that's what Trollness was spewing.
Oh yes, bang on, this is wah I meant. I thought my sarcasm was detectable, no?

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12-07-2012, 12:59 AM
  #45
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I preferred Couturier because I thought he could have jumped into the NHL immediately & contributed as he did. If Ottawa would have picked him he could have also started on the 4th line & worked his way up & given Ottawa at least three very good centres & strength up the middle is essential in the NHL to be a championship team.

IMO Couts had the size, he had proven he could score a bunch in junior & he played a very good two way game & defensive game. He may not have been tough enough for the 4th line but he was big enough to handle it & would have worked his way up to 3rd, 2nd & eventually the first line in 5 yrs or so. Zibane may be ablke to do the same but it hasn't even been established yet if he is a centre or a winger & somehow I doubt he will be the scorer Couturier will be but I hope so.

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12-07-2012, 01:15 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Minister of Offence: Was talking about his season as a whole, not his point totals. Obviously I think Zibanejad can score 27 points at some point. There's a difference playing in Couturier's role and in an offensive, sheltered role.
If Zibanejad can't score 27 points in a season, I will consider him a bust... I don't see what is the "big reach" about 27 points... 259 NHL players have scored 27 points or more last season

Chris Neil outscored Couturier in 5 games less, and Chris Neil is considered like a goon with no hands by many...

Quote:
Couturier was the #1 defensive forward, i.e. played the toughest minutes on that team. He put up 31 points with low-level skill and little-to-none PP time. It's damn impressive, and "hard-pressed" might've been excessive but if one of our prospects would go on to do that in his career we should be damn happy wherever he was picked.
You realize Erik Condra put up 31 points in 88 games as well?

Chris Kelly pretty much did in 2005-06 what Couturier did last year and he was considered OVERPAID by 80% of this board a few years ago... at 2.1 per season

I think some people really want glorify Couturier for some reason... What he did last year is not unseen... at all

Haven't you see guys like Landeskog, Henrique, Read, RNH, Hodgson, Hagelin... heck even Greening? I'd take most of those guys before Couturier

If Couturier was THAT good, why isn't even among the top-5 rookies of 2011-12???

Quote:
Zibanejad was considered one of the most NHL-ready prospects in the draft. I don't know what is meant by "raw" and "project" here, because being more physically developed should mean he's less of a project, and closer to where he should be.
Must have missed that... never heard of it... and while Mika is ready physically it's his pro game that needs refinement. He has a ton of different skills but haven't put it all together yet. He has to learn to be a real pro and adjust to the NA game... He is still a kid, on his way to become a man

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
There's nothing wrong with comparing prospects. There is, however, something wrong with saying that your opinion is the only one that matters. If the draft were re-done today, I'd still take Zibby Stardust. We had no way of knowing that we'd have such a successful season last year, and my money is still on Z-bad as the better long-term asset to the team.
Quoted for emphasis... I can't believe not everyone understands that... maybe teenagers at 12-13 y/o but even then, most teens I work with would understand

My conclusion on this (hopefully) is after 20 years of following the NHL closely... I have witnessed that kind of situation so many times, where a young hockey player has a great career start and finally don't rise as expected, and the opposite as well.

Just on the Sens, you only have to think of Patrick Eaves and Brandon Bochenski, or even Andrej Meszaros... GREAT start of careers... but now they really aren't as "big" as some people thought they would.

NOT EVERYTHING IS LINEAR... particulary with the human being

Gosh it's as clear as water and yet, some people can't see it

Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
1st part

This is true, nobody can precict the future, but we're all entitled to our own opinions and projections based on the information we have. Therefore we can't say anyone is either right or wrong.

2nd part

I do think, however, that most that have followed both of the players over time would pick Couturier without blinking, but I can't blame anyone who doesn't, because, as you say, we can't know anything for sure.
Wisdom in the first part of your argument, but the rest... none

People would pick Couturier without blinking? What have you done with me lately mentality?

No, in reality, NHL franchises think a little bit longer term when drafting players... They're not thinking "OK THE 1ST YEAR IS THE MOST IMPORTANT GUYS, almost ALL that matters, let's make a good pick"

lol you people talk like that draft happened 10 years ago...

Ok just going to throw one example out there

After the 2009-10 season, who thought that Erik Karlsson was going to be better than Michael Del Zotto?

Karlsson was selected 15th overall in 2008 and Del Zotto was picked 20th... After their first year, looked like the Sens made the wrong pick... no?

Or the Blues... were the fans regretting picking Pietrangelo over Luke Schenn?

Man, it's possible to find hundreds of examples like this... It's ridiculous to even think of concluding about this right now... You're like 3-4 years ahead... only pure speculation and people saying "I would pick Couturier over Zibanejad without blinking" are either blind or haven't followed the NHL long enough to know that it's just too early to make that kind of conclusion

Basically, you guys are making a prediction and expect people to swallow it as a fact


Last edited by Xspyrit: 12-07-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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Old
12-07-2012, 02:08 AM
  #47
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Dude... Couturier was money in the playoffs. I know he turned off a couple of teams, but he has redeemed himself.

We absolutely blew it by not selecting him.

Moving on, I hope as much as the rest of you that our guy makes his way.

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12-07-2012, 02:34 AM
  #48
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Dude... Couturier was money in the playoffs. I know he turned off a couple of teams, but he has redeemed himself
Redeemed himself? Can you explain?
Are you saying what we observed as fans on the outside for a single season of Couturier is enough to convince several teams that their judgement of Couturier's character was wrong?

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12-07-2012, 02:39 AM
  #49
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Yes.

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12-07-2012, 03:42 AM
  #50
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this is the next Lee over Kopitar

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