HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Mika Zibanejad is the real deal 2.0

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2012, 06:45 AM
  #51
Rumcajs
Registered User
 
Rumcajs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,214
vCash: 500
What is the fuss about?? The kid is 19 and has a .5 ppg in his first year in the AHL.

Give him time. People are just so impatient with prospects.

Rumcajs is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 08:33 AM
  #52
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit
Chris Neil outscored Couturier in 5 games less, and Chris Neil is considered like a goon with no hands by many...

You realize Erik Condra put up 31 points in 88 games as well?

Chris Kelly pretty much did in 2005-06 what Couturier did last year and he was considered OVERPAID by 80% of this board a few years ago... at 2.1 per season

I think some people really want glorify Couturier for some reason... What he did last year is not unseen... at all
Like you liked to point out as well, I've been following the NHL for a long time. 18-year-old rookies playing in Couturier's role putting up 27 points barely exist. Heck, 18-year-olds playing in Couturier's role barely exist. Can't remember anyone. The point was never about 27 points being unreachable, I think you must've misread if you thought so.

Quote:
Haven't you see guys like Landeskog, Henrique, Read, RNH, Hodgson, Hagelin... heck even Greening? I'd take most of those guys before Couturier
Great players, would love to have them.

Quote:
If Couturier was THAT good, why isn't even among the top-5 rookies of 2011-12???
According to who?

Quote:
Must have missed that... never heard of it... and while Mika is ready physically it's his pro game that needs refinement. He has a ton of different skills but haven't put it all together yet. He has to learn to be a real pro and adjust to the NA game... He is still a kid, on his way to become a man
I'd have to dig up some quotes on that if necessary. Perhaps it was a post-draft construction because Sens management decided in April that the player they drafted would jump right into the NHL.

My conclusion on this (hopefully) is after 20 years of following the NHL closely... I have witnessed that kind of situation so many times, where a young hockey player has a great career start and finally don't rise as expected, and the opposite as well.

Quote:
Just on the Sens, you only have to think of Patrick Eaves and Brandon Bochenski, or even Andrej Meszaros... GREAT start of careers... but now they really aren't as "big" as some people thought they would.
That's really just a case of re-occuring overrating of prospects, happens every year, everywhere.

Quote:
NOT EVERYTHING IS LINEAR... particulary with the human being
True, hence why I'm not yelling at anyone for having a different opinion than me.

Quote:
People would pick Couturier without blinking? What have you done with me lately mentality?
Many were surprised he fell so low to begin with and have done nothing but good things since. Has played one season at an elite level defensively, and there's no reason to believe he can't put up points in the future.

Quote:
Man, it's possible to find hundreds of examples like this... It's ridiculous to even think of concluding about this right now... You're like 3-4 years ahead... only pure speculation and people saying "I would pick Couturier over Zibanejad without blinking" are either blind or haven't followed the NHL long enough to know that it's just too early to make that kind of conclusion
Yes, it's too early to make conclusions about who is gonna be right when we look back at their careers. It's not too early to make predictions and have opinions.

Quote:
Basically, you guys are making a prediction and expect people to swallow it as a fact
No, I am saying I think most people that follow hockey closely would agree with me, to avoid looking like I am having some crazy opinion on this Senators-biased board. I'd gladly be proven wrong if possible.

sg58 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 08:44 AM
  #53
Suiteness
Registered User
 
Suiteness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Time to Rebuild
Posts: 6,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xspyrit View Post
If Zibanejad can't score 27 points in a season, I will consider him a bust... I don't see what is the "big reach" about 27 points... 259 NHL players have scored 27 points or more last season
Right. And how many of these 259 players were rookies coming out of junior who played on the third/fourth line with virtually zero pp time?

Quote:
Chris Neil outscored Couturier in 5 games less, and Chris Neil is considered like a goon with no hands by many...
Chris Neil is more than ten years older than him and needed at least 5 NHL seasons to reach 27 points.


Quote:
You realize Erik Condra put up 31 points in 88 games as well?
Condra is a rookie who just came out of junior?

Quote:
Chris Kelly pretty much did in 2005-06 what Couturier did last year and he was considered OVERPAID by 80% of this board a few years ago... at 2.1 per season
Again, rookie, out of junior, 19 years old, yadayadayda...

Quote:
I think some people really want glorify Couturier for some reason... What he did last year is not unseen... at all

Haven't you see guys like Landeskog, Henrique, Read, RNH, Hodgson, Hagelin... heck even Greening? I'd take most of those guys before Couturier
Is it the greatest season ever? No, but it's still a pretty impressive season for a kid out of junior who was getting tough minutes, sh*ty linemates and very little PP time.

Landeskog and RNH are superior players, but they also benefited from playing on crap teams (Which means tons of PP time which is where the players get their points, RNH especially is a PP mastermind). Hopkins was also ridiculously sheltered, his minutes were toilet paper soft.

Isnt Matt Read 25 years old? Coling Greening

Quote:
NOT EVERYTHING IS LINEAR... particulary with the human being
Correct, it's not. All we can do is work with what we have. Whatever situation Couturier has been put into since he has been drafted, he's been able to produce.

Since Zibanajed has been drafted, all I'm seeing is excuses to justify his play (Bad coaching, rink is too small, snake bitten, etc.)

Suiteness is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 08:52 AM
  #54
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,420
vCash: 500
Why don't we turn the topic of this thread to which homo sens fan wants to suck Sean couturiers dick more.

Cause you guys are almost there.

BK201 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 08:55 AM
  #55
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Why don't we turn the topic of this thread to which homo sens fan wants to suck Sean couturiers dick more.

Cause you guys are almost there.
People want to compare prospects, so we do it.

sg58 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:01 AM
  #56
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
People want to compare prospects, so we do it.
Yeah sure.... Since he is one of the only players in the history of hockey to have a rookie season like that

BK201 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:02 AM
  #57
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Yeah sure.... Since he is one of the only players in the history of hockey to have a rookie season like that
I'd he happy to be reminded on some others, bud. They probably went on to be pretty damn good, if so.

Edit: Jordan Staal might be a good example, played a pretty similar role, not quite as tough, as Couturier in his rookie year.

sg58 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:08 AM
  #58
BK201
Registered User
 
BK201's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
I'd he happy to be reminded on some others, bud. They probably went on to be pretty damn good, if so.

Edit: Jordan Staal might be a good example, played a pretty similar role, not quite as tough, as Couturier in his rookie year.
Meh I'm gonna stop argueing with you as I think your nice Steffe G but I don't quite agree. I don't see a very special player there but I can deal with eating crow too.

BK201 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:10 AM
  #59
sg58
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,206
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Meh I'm gonna stop argueing with you as I think your nice Steffe G but I don't quite agree. I don't see a very special player there but I can deal with eating crow too.
Likewise. In fact, I'd want nothing more than to eat crow on this.

sg58 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:11 AM
  #60
Dysentery
Ottawa Senators
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,865
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Why don't we turn the topic of this thread to which homo sens fan wants to suck Sean couturiers dick more.

Cause you guys are almost there.
Hahahahaha QFT.

Dysentery is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:31 AM
  #61
Suiteness
Registered User
 
Suiteness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Time to Rebuild
Posts: 6,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Meh I'm gonna stop argueing with you as I think your nice Steffe G but I don't quite agree. I don't see a very special player there but I can deal with eating crow too.
I also don't think he's going to become a franchise top 5 player in the league or anything like that but I just find it lame to see posters like Xspyrit trash his accomplishments so he can feel better about our prospects.

But, yeah, it is the Internet afterall so I shouldn't expect too much from here either.

Suiteness is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:34 AM
  #62
ATdaisuki
invisible
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,168
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Why don't we turn the topic of this thread to which homo sens fan wants to suck Sean couturiers dick more.

Cause you guys are almost there.
is this some kind of argument you're making? when talking about a prospect, it usually ends up in the realm of "who we could have had" if one prospect has out performed another up to now.
right now couturier is outscoring zibby in the ahl. i've watched zibby play and he's looked solid, but hasn't been putting up points (entire team isn't putting up major points). i haven't seen couts play too much, so i can't comment on his game, but as of right now, couts is ahead and is still looking like a very solid player. steffeg hasn't really said anything too controversial. denying that couts was good last season is silly. i think the point that he's trying to make is that he's outperformed zibby and has given people no reason to believe he's slowing down

ATdaisuki is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:42 AM
  #63
R2010
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 641
vCash: 500
Well here's a scenario for you guys:

Instead of Zibanejad we select Hamilton in 2011

In 2012 given our abundance of D men we select Teuvo Teräväinen or Tom Wilson instead of Ceci (never happen I know).

I think we would be much better off. I didn't realize how young Teuvo Teravainen was either - he's only a few days from being eligible for this year instead of last year and has good stats for lockout Finland.

R2010 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:39 AM
  #64
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by R2010 View Post
Well here's a scenario for you guys:

Instead of Zibanejad we select Hamilton in 2011

In 2012 given our abundance of D men we select Teuvo Teräväinen or Tom Wilson instead of Ceci (never happen I know).

I think we would be much better off. I didn't realize how young Teuvo Teravainen was either - he's only a few days from being eligible for this year instead of last year and has good stats for lockout Finland.
We could play with these hypotheticals all season. And beyond if we hadn't shot ourselves yet

Minister of Offence is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:41 AM
  #65
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
I also don't think he's going to become a franchise top 5 player in the league or anything like that but I just find it lame to see posters like Xspyrit trash his accomplishments so he can feel better about our prospects.

But, yeah, it is the Internet afterall so I shouldn't expect too much from here either.
Suiteness, how does being dreadfully negative been working for you?

After all, it's the internet and we can't just tell the sad people they aren't allowed in.

Like I'm sorry for having to be so blunt, but man, it never ends with you. You can go away for a while an then come back only because you've found something to gripe about.

Minister of Offence is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:43 AM
  #66
NyQuil
Setec Astronomy
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NyLand
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,217
vCash: 500
I saw a fair amount of Flyers games last year and Couts looked good out there.

I don't know why we can't admit that.

The ultimate decision can't really be assessed for years to come though, so we can refrain from throwing ourselves off of bridges.

NyQuil is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:44 AM
  #67
Icelevel
Best Coaches Coach
 
Icelevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,150
vCash: 500
ceci and zibanejad could end up being the best players in their entire draft. ya, it could happen. can you prove that it won't?

Icelevel is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:51 AM
  #68
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I saw a fair amount of Flyers games last year and Couts looked good out there.

I don't know why we can't admit that.

The ultimate decision can't really be assessed for years to come though, so we can refrain from throwing ourselves off of bridges.
You couldn't have asked for more from him and by any standard he had a very impressive season. Some are getting carried away discrediting and some are getting carried away talking him up.

It's unlikely we'll have made the better pick but I'll only be discouraged if we made a bad one.

Minister of Offence is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:35 AM
  #69
Suiteness
Registered User
 
Suiteness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Time to Rebuild
Posts: 6,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Suiteness, how does being dreadfully negative been working for you?

After all, it's the internet and we can't just tell the sad people they aren't allowed in.

Like I'm sorry for having to be so blunt, but man, it never ends with you. You can go away for a while an then come back only because you've found something to gripe about.
I come from a football crazy nation (What you people call Soccer). We are excessively demanding of our football teams like you wouldn't believe. If our team wins the league, we complain that it should be have clinched it sooner. That's just how crazy things are over there.

North America is a different animal obviously. I'm bamboozled at how coddled the athletes are over here. Remember how some were wetting their panties when Gonchar got booed at the player intro last year? Jesus, in my country, a player performing very poorly will have to listen to thousands of fans calling his wife and/or mother a wh**re.

Suiteness is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #70
hockeyalltheway
Moderator
Get well soon, GMBM.
 
hockeyalltheway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
I saw a fair amount of Flyers games last year and Couts looked good out there.

I don't know why we can't admit that.

The ultimate decision can't really be assessed for years to come though, so we can refrain from throwing ourselves off of bridges.
Haven't seen anyone saying Couturier didn't look like he belonged out there. I'd still take Zibanejad, though.

__________________
hockeyalltheway is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:46 AM
  #71
Tuna99
Registered User
 
Tuna99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
I come from a football crazy nation (What you people call Soccer). We are excessively demanding of our football teams like you wouldn't believe. If our team wins the league, we complain that it should be have clinched it sooner. That's just how crazy things are over there.

North America is a different animal obviously. I'm bamboozled at how coddled the athletes are over here. Remember how some were wetting their panties when Gonchar got booed at the player intro last year? Jesus, in my country, a player performing very poorly will have to listen to thousands of fans calling his wife and/or mother a wh**re.
Glasgow Rangers fan?

Tuna99 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 12:11 PM
  #72
CanadianHockey
Smith - Alfie
 
CanadianHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyalltheway View Post
Haven't seen anyone saying Couturier didn't look like he belonged out there. I'd still take Zibanejad, though.
Xspyrit did mention Greening is comparable to Couturier, which is ridiculous, considering Greening, at age 26 with some top-line/top-6 time on an offensive team, only produced ten more points than Couturier, a more skilled, higher-potential player who's 6 years younger, played a defensive role all year, and was a rookie coming straight out of juniors.

__________________
CanadianHockey________ __ __________Sens, Oilers, and Team Canada
CanadianHockey is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:12 PM
  #73
Minister of Offence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 23,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suiteness View Post
I come from a football crazy nation (What you people call Soccer). We are excessively demanding of our football teams like you wouldn't believe. If our team wins the league, we complain that it should be have clinched it sooner. That's just how crazy things are over there.

North America is a different animal obviously. I'm bamboozled at how coddled the athletes are over here. Remember how some were wetting their panties when Gonchar got booed at the player intro last year? Jesus, in my country, a player performing very poorly will have to listen to thousands of fans calling his wife and/or mother a wh**re.
Wasn't expecting to get perspective out of your response, but I got some. Fair enough.

Minister of Offence is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:29 PM
  #74
sauce11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 182
vCash: 500
with all of the scrutiny on his game, Zibanejad is still, in my mind, our top prospect. so i just want to ask you peeps, where do you realistically want to see him by the end of the season. points, overall play, wing/center, toughness, etc. What kind of season will make everyone calm and confident in our highest pick in 10 years

sauce11 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:52 PM
  #75
Tuna99
Registered User
 
Tuna99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sauce11 View Post
with all of the scrutiny on his game, Zibanejad is still, in my mind, our top prospect. so i just want to ask you peeps, where do you realistically want to see him by the end of the season. points, overall play, wing/center, toughness, etc. What kind of season will make everyone calm and confident in our highest pick in 10 years
Best forward if not skater in Bingo - using his body to blow up plays, scoring with skill, producing on the PP, winning faceoffs, shutting down top opposition, being a stud in the Bingo playoff run.

Tuna99 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.