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World Junior Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

How would Canada U20 do against a bottom NHL team?

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Old
12-06-2012, 09:05 PM
  #51
reffree
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
They'd still simply be overwhelmed by the size and strength of NHL players.

Now if we start talking that 2005 teams NOW vs an NHL. That'd be fun.


Carter-Crosby-Perry
Dawes-Getzlaf-A Stewart
MacArthur-Richards- Ladd
Colliton-Bergeron-Fraser




Seabrook-Phaneuf
Weber-Coburn
Belle-Syvret


Glass
Beauchemin


The weaknesses would be that 3rd D pairing and in goal. But if they were playing Columbus the goaltending would probably even out haha.
I think that team could have been competitive against AHL bottom feeder but this team is easlily the best of the last 20 years.

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12-07-2012, 09:07 AM
  #52
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how about the Toronto Marlies or top place American Hockey team against last place NHL team? I think for sure a top American Hockey team would win or it would be competitive game or best out of 7!!!!!!!!!!!I always figured that Ameican Hockey teams are like a 4th line NHL team!

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12-07-2012, 09:10 AM
  #53
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They would get absolutely crushed. Bad goaltending, and only one decent D pairing and scoring line.

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12-07-2012, 09:13 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Caballo Blanco View Post
They would get absolutely crushed. Bad goaltending, and only one decent D pairing and scoring line.
I don,t agree that a top place American team would get crushed by a last place NHL team!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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12-07-2012, 01:07 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by darmitage View Post
I don,t agree that a top place American team would get crushed by a last place NHL team!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why? Even if the farm team was from a stacked NHL roster, the chances are that the farm team has AHL vets who just aren't good enough to play in the NHL and a few young developing players that need seasoning before making the jump. Don't forget that even with talented young players, very few step straight into the NHL and produce anywhere near their peak. For every Crosby who gets 100 points, there are 100+ Joe Thornton types who get 7. Seriously, how often do AHL call ups join the team mid season and produce anywhere near what the top players on the NHL club do? Some AHL teams look a little better right now as they have a few young players playing for them that would likely be in the NHL if the lockout was over. Abbotsford Heat are the number one AHL team right now. If the NHL was on, Bartschi would be with the Flames. No one on that roster even has a PPG in the AHL. How would they score on an NHL goalie. Put them up against the last place Oilers and they would thrash them. Before you say that Oklahoma has a worse record with 5-6 Oilers on it, don't bother. The other 3 lines and NHL goaltending that the Oilers would ice is vastly superior to the Heat's roster. Also look at how many points the top 4 in Oklahoma have compared to the Heat.

What is your obsession with this inter league comparison anyways? Just bored with no hockey to watch?

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12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
  #56
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It's kind of an interesting question.

The easy answer is that they would get destroyed.

Time and time again, Junior-aged hockey players comment on the sheer difference in speed and physicality at the NHL level.

It takes them time to get used to the pace of the game.

At the beginning of an NHL season, sure.

But after 60 games of NHL play, would the team of national-calibre juniors be competitive? Enough to win games?

Probably, I'd think.

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12-07-2012, 01:46 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
It's kind of an interesting question.

The easy answer is that they would get destroyed.

Time and time again, Junior-aged hockey players comment on the sheer difference in speed and physicality at the NHL level.

It takes them time to get used to the pace of the game.

At the beginning of an NHL season, sure.

But after 60 games of NHL play, would the team of national-calibre juniors be competitive? Enough to win games?

Probably, I'd think.
After 60 games playing against NHLers, how much of this imaginary junior squad do we reckon is still playing healthy (i.e. not completely broken from playing against physically developed men who aren't at a disadvantage when it comes to size/speed/agility)? I don't think a junior team would last long enough to come up with enough answers to solve even the "worst" NHL team, personally. Even played on a more skilled than physical level, the gap and learning curve is huge, and part of why even the most highly regarded prospects rarely crack NHL rosters while still junior-aged.

I mean, let's look at the last gold medal winning Team Canada. For every Tavares, Eberle, Subban, and Pietrangelo there's a Hodgson, Hickey, Esposito, and Boychuk who have yet to crack the NHL full-time after four more years of pro development! And how confident would that group be right now facing an NHL team (especially with Pickard and Tokarski between the pipes), let alone with the 19/20 year old versions of them instead? The deck is just stacked too heavily against even the best WJC squad, making threads like this interesting to ponder when high, but not worth much sober consideration.

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12-07-2012, 02:06 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
The deck is just stacked too heavily against even the best WJC squad, making threads like this interesting to ponder when high, but not worth much sober consideration.
Well, for the sake of argument, let's use the best WJC squad. (2005)

Here they are along with their immediate NHL totals from the following year.

Is this absolutely non-scientific? Of course, since they were inserted into NHL line-ups with experienced veterans. But for the sake of curiosity, I did it anyway.

Réjean Beauchemin, Winnipeg, MB. - N/A
Jeff Glass, Cochrane, AB. - N/A

Defensemen
Cam Barker, Winnipeg, MB - 1 GP 0 0 0
Shawn Belle, Edmonton, AB - N/A
Braydon Coburn, Shaunavon, SK - 9 GP 0 1 1
Dion Phaneuf, Edmonton, AB - 82 GP 20 29 49
Brent Seabrook, Tsawwassen, BC - 69 GP 5 27 32
Danny Syvret, Millgrove, ON - 10 GP 0 0 0
Shea Weber, Sicamous, BC - 28 GP 2 8 10

Forwards
*Patrice Bergeron, Ancienne-Lorette, QC - 81 GP 31 42 73
Jeff Carter, London, ON - 81 GP 23 19 42
Jeremy Colliton, Blackie, AB 19 GP 1 1 2
Sidney Crosby, Halifax, NS 81 GP 39 63 102
Nigel Dawes, Winnipeg, MB N/A
Stephen Dixon, Halifax, NS N/A
Colin Fraser, Surrey, BC N/A
Ryan Getzlaf, Regina, SK - 57 GP 14 25 39
Andrew Ladd, Maple Ridge, BC - 29 GP 6 5 11
Clarke MacArthur, Lloydminster, AB N/A
Corey Perry, Peterborough, ON - 56 GP 13 12 25
Michael Richards, Kenora, ON - 79 GP 11 23 34
Anthony Stewart, Scarborough, ON - 10 GP 2 1 3

* Sophmore year in the NHL

-Not a very competitive looking team, given the amount of NHL inexperience. Could they win -A- game? With some NHL seasoning? I'd still say maybe.


Last edited by NyQuil: 12-07-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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Old
12-07-2012, 02:20 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Well, for the sake of argument, let's use the best WJC squad. (2005)

Here they are along with their immediate NHL totals from the following year.

Is this absolutely non-scientific? Of course, since they were inserted into NHL line-ups with experienced veterans. But for the sake of curiosity, I did it anyway.

Réjean Beauchemin, Winnipeg, MB. - N/A
Jeff Glass, Cochrane, AB. - N/A

Defensemen
Cam Barker, Winnipeg, MB - 1 GP 0 0 0
*Shawn Belle, Edmonton, AB - N/A
*Braydon Coburn, Shaunavon, SK - 9 GP 0 1 1
*Dion Phaneuf, Edmonton, AB - 82 GP 20 29 49
*Brent Seabrook, Tsawwassen, BC - 69 GP 5 27 32
Danny Syvret, Millgrove, ON - 10 GP 0 0 0
Shea Weber, Sicamous, BC - 28 GP 2 8 10

Forwards
*Patrice Bergeron, Ancienne-Lorette, QC - 81 GP 31 42 73
Jeff Carter, London, ON - 81 GP 23 19 42
Jeremy Colliton, Blackie, AB 19 GP 1 1 2
Sidney Crosby, Halifax, NS 81 GP 39 63 102
Nigel Dawes, Winnipeg, MB N/A
Stephen Dixon, Halifax, NS N/A
Colin Fraser, Surrey, BC N/A
Ryan Getzlaf, Regina, SK - 57 GP 14 25 39
Andrew Ladd, Maple Ridge, BC - 29 GP 6 5 11
Clarke MacArthur, Lloydminster, AB N/A
Corey Perry, Peterborough, ON - 56 GP 13 12 25
Michael Richards, Kenora, ON - 79 GP 11 23 34
Anthony Stewart, Scarborough, ON - 10 GP 2 1 3

* Sophmore year in the NHL

-Not a very competitive looking team, given the amount of NHL inexperience. Could they win -A- game? With some NHL seasoning? I'd still say maybe.
Maybe if it turned into a non-contact league. Some NHL seasoning just translates to injuries, younger players get sheltered for a reason. On actual NHL teams the likes of RNH, Hall, etc. can get sheltered from the grinders. There would be nobody to shelter them when that line came on.

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12-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #60
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A junior team could not compete against an NHL squad. An AHL team could, because they are pro hockey players.

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12-07-2012, 02:31 PM
  #61
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Any smart NHL coach would have his team checking the crap out of those weak little Junior bodies.

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12-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #62
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Not a chance. A complete blow out. Most those under 20 are not NHL ready.

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12-07-2012, 02:42 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
It's kind of an interesting question.

The easy answer is that they would get destroyed.

Time and time again, Junior-aged hockey players comment on the sheer difference in speed and physicality at the NHL level.

It takes them time to get used to the pace of the game.

At the beginning of an NHL season, sure.

But after 60 games of NHL play, would the team of national-calibre juniors be competitive? Enough to win games?

Probably, I'd think.
it's also the correct answer. Kids would have no chance to gain confidence to get going. they would just get completely rag dolled every shift. The longer the domination went on the less confidence they would have. After 60 games there would be nothing left physically or mentally to even attempt to win. The overall confidence of the team would be a mess because nobody can stick up for eachother. even the so called tough guys would be getting knocked around by NHL "softies".

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12-07-2012, 04:19 PM
  #64
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I have seen many Juniors go into the NHL and not look out of place but not a high percentage!

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12-07-2012, 04:20 PM
  #65
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They would get blown out of the water.

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12-07-2012, 05:18 PM
  #66
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This is a ridiculous question, they would get killed. If you think they would have any chance then you must be pretty uninformed about the sport of hockey. The difference is these would be 18 and 19 year olds playing grown men with a work ethic and fitness level that puts them in the top percentile.

A 19 year old Boone Jenner doesnt compare to RJ Umberger.
A 19 year old Dougie Hamilton is not as well developed as Jack Johnson.
A 19 year old Jonathon Huberdeau is not as good as a 26 year old Jeff Carter.

These players might have similar or greater upsides as pros but they are not as good right now


Last edited by bsmith14: 12-07-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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12-07-2012, 06:22 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Well, for the sake of argument, let's use the best WJC squad. (2005)

Here they are along with their immediate NHL totals from the following year.

Is this absolutely non-scientific? Of course, since they were inserted into NHL line-ups with experienced veterans. But for the sake of curiosity, I did it anyway.

Réjean Beauchemin, Winnipeg, MB. - N/A
Jeff Glass, Cochrane, AB. - N/A

Defensemen
Cam Barker, Winnipeg, MB - 1 GP 0 0 0
*Shawn Belle, Edmonton, AB - N/A
*Braydon Coburn, Shaunavon, SK - 9 GP 0 1 1
*Dion Phaneuf, Edmonton, AB - 82 GP 20 29 49
*Brent Seabrook, Tsawwassen, BC - 69 GP 5 27 32
Danny Syvret, Millgrove, ON - 10 GP 0 0 0
Shea Weber, Sicamous, BC - 28 GP 2 8 10

Forwards
*Patrice Bergeron, Ancienne-Lorette, QC - 81 GP 31 42 73
Jeff Carter, London, ON - 81 GP 23 19 42
Jeremy Colliton, Blackie, AB 19 GP 1 1 2
Sidney Crosby, Halifax, NS 81 GP 39 63 102
Nigel Dawes, Winnipeg, MB N/A
Stephen Dixon, Halifax, NS N/A
Colin Fraser, Surrey, BC N/A
Ryan Getzlaf, Regina, SK - 57 GP 14 25 39
Andrew Ladd, Maple Ridge, BC - 29 GP 6 5 11
Clarke MacArthur, Lloydminster, AB N/A
Corey Perry, Peterborough, ON - 56 GP 13 12 25
Michael Richards, Kenora, ON - 79 GP 11 23 34
Anthony Stewart, Scarborough, ON - 10 GP 2 1 3

* Sophmore year in the NHL

-Not a very competitive looking team, given the amount of NHL inexperience. Could they win -A- game? With some NHL seasoning? I'd still say maybe.
Yeah, first problem is that you have either Glass or Beauchemin in nets against a team of NHL players. Second of all, it takes the sophmore years of those defensemen to make it look like they might have been up to the job of anchoring top pairings against NHL squads (without help of veteran NHLers, like you said) a year or two earlier (as in, not just their rookie season, but actually the year before that - as juniors). Third of all, that Crosby-led team finished top among junior teams, but the very next year a Crosby-led NHL team finished last in the East. Level of competition is obviously a huge step up - insurmountably so, imo, even for that year's (or this year's) WJC squad, let alone "in general". But again, lastly, these rosters wouldn't remain healthy and intact enough to eventually eek out a win unless the game had a severe slant in officiating.

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12-07-2012, 06:32 PM
  #68
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They'd get beat something like 6-1. Maybe with a couple of injuries.

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12-07-2012, 06:39 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by darmitage View Post
I don,t agree that a top place American team would get crushed by a last place NHL team!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They would certainly lose barring an incredible goaltending performance.

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12-07-2012, 06:43 PM
  #70
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If they played an 82 game season in the NHL. Would they actually go 0-82. Hockey is a sport where a goalie could get hot one night and sneak a win.

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12-07-2012, 11:24 PM
  #71
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Skill wise they would be severely challenged.

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12-07-2012, 11:33 PM
  #72
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In a normal year, any players on team Canada who are good enough to play in the NHL and have an impact would likely be there. This year may be a bit different because the league is in lockout but even so, most of the players who would play for team Canada are not yet ready to play against NHL players and would thus get crushed. A line or two may be able to hold their own but an NHL team, even a bad one should run away with the game.

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12-08-2012, 12:29 AM
  #73
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OT but a 23 and under team assuming you do anyone born in 1989 or later would be a borderline all-star team. Taken from this thread:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...103&highlight=


Canada A
Stamkos-Tavares-Seguin
Skinner-Couture-Eberle
Hall-Duchene-RNH
Kane-R O'Reilly-Benn (that is a tough line)

Myers-Pietrangelo
Subban-Doughty (I shudder to put these two risk takers together)
MDZ-Cowen

Holtby starting goalie
Glennie backup

and the 2nd wouldn't be bad either
Canada B (this team has a lot of centres)
fwds
Ennis
B Schenn
Couturier
Turris
Henrique
Johansen
Gagner
Huberdeau
Brandon Sutter
Hodgson
B Connolly
Schwartz (I like Kadri more in a jnr tournament but this team needs some natural wingers)

Dmen
Spurgeon
Hamonic
Hamilton
Brodie
L Schenn
Scandella

Goalie
Hackett
Subban? Roy? Bunz?
HM aka extras for both Canada teams: M Foligno, Bailey, Shaw, Kadri, Colborne, DSP, Z Kassian, Adam, Strome, Scheifele, LeBlanc, Dalpe, Toffoli, Eakin, Rattie, Cizikas, Adam, M Stone, Ashton, Caron, Conacher, G Bourque
B Smith, Elliott, Gormley, J Morrow, Despres, R Ellis, Schultz, R Murphy, Barbeiro, Barrie, McNabb, R Murray

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12-08-2012, 01:21 AM
  #74
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They would get killed. The Danish U20 team played the U of A golden bears last year and they got destroyed 5-0. I know Canada's U20 team is better than Denmark's, and a U20 Canada vs the U of A bears would be close, but NHL and university hockey are on completely different levels because of the physical aspect of the game.

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12-08-2012, 01:37 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuietCompany View Post
OT but a 23 and under team assuming you do anyone born in 1989 or later would be a borderline all-star team. Taken from this thread:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...103&highlight=


Canada A
Stamkos-Tavares-Seguin
Skinner-Couture-Eberle
Hall-Duchene-RNH
Kane-R O'Reilly-Benn (that is a tough line)

Myers-Pietrangelo
Subban-Doughty (I shudder to put these two risk takers together)
MDZ-Cowen

Holtby starting goalie
Glennie backup

and the 2nd wouldn't be bad either
Canada B (this team has a lot of centres)
fwds
Ennis
B Schenn
Couturier
Turris
Henrique
Johansen
Gagner
Huberdeau
Brandon Sutter
Hodgson
B Connolly
Schwartz (I like Kadri more in a jnr tournament but this team needs some natural wingers)

Dmen
Spurgeon
Hamonic
Hamilton
Brodie
L Schenn
Scandella

Goalie
Hackett
Subban? Roy? Bunz?
HM aka extras for both Canada teams: M Foligno, Bailey, Shaw, Kadri, Colborne, DSP, Z Kassian, Adam, Strome, Scheifele, LeBlanc, Dalpe, Toffoli, Eakin, Rattie, Cizikas, Adam, M Stone, Ashton, Caron, Conacher, G Bourque
B Smith, Elliott, Gormley, J Morrow, Despres, R Ellis, Schultz, R Murphy, Barbeiro, Barrie, McNabb, R Murray

23 and under is a different beast. That's why it's much harder for 18-19 year olds to score in the NCAA, because they are going up against 20-23 year old players. Whereas in Junior they are the oldest players on the ice usually. The players are just bigger and more experienced at that age.

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