HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Notices

Ryan O'Reilly Signs With Magnitogorsk (2-yr deal)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2012, 08:57 AM
  #51
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 10,061
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
Considering "his team (Avs)" wouldn't give him a contract, I would say that Magnitogorsk is his team.
His agent mutually agreed to hault contract talks until post-CBA.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:07 AM
  #52
wings5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,110
vCash: 500
doesn't look like any NHL hockeu will be played anytime soon. No loss at this point..

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411086

wings5 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:08 AM
  #53
Soedy
Registered User
 
Soedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
not true. He can leave whenever Magnitogorsk agrees. OR he can buy out KHL contract whenever he wants. It is not like "KHL contract is terminated at the moment when he gets NHL offer (higher or same)" No it is not like this.

There is a scenario
1. He gets offer from Avs
2. He decided to sign it but he cant (he has KHL contract)
3. He is obligated to terminate KHL contract earlier, so Magnitogorsk must agree (dont have to, depends on will). Ryan has no chance to sue Magnitogorsk for "not terminating contract". Termination is based on the will of club and players. See no problem.
4. If KHL contract is terminated, he can sign with Avs (not do the same error as Prokhorkin )

Or he can skip point 3 and buy out KHL contract.
http://eurolanche.com/article.php?id=2143

there it is. Sounds like the "terms" should be better. Whatever this is, could be nearly everything. Pretty sure he'll be back.

Soedy is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:23 AM
  #54
RockLobster
Moderator
Beatles Guru
 
RockLobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kansas
Country: Germany
Posts: 10,608
vCash: 905
Yeah, I can't help but be a little concerned about this.

Because if by some miracle there is NHL Hockey this year, the Magnitogorsk GM is expecting Ryan to play the entire year in the KHL. And this "verbal non-binding" out clause just doesn't sound right.

I hope this isn't cause for concern for Ryan's future with the team.

RockLobster is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:24 AM
  #55
Frenchy
Global Moderator
 
Frenchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alma, QC.
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Let's be reasonable here and not assume the worst. I don't trust the KHL or its clubs as much as the next guy, but O'Reilly is the heart and soul type of guy that would never betray his team. His team is Colorado, not Magnitogorsk.

We'll see him back in the NHL when it resumes, one way or another.

This, i agree with lonewolfe

At first , it looks like we may be in trouble and it doesnt look good , but let's not jump conclusions to early. The way i see it , the worst scenario is that Ryan will play the rest of the year in the KHL... in the mean time we're not even sure yet if the NHL will play hockey this year .

Frenchy is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:40 AM
  #56
Frenchy
Global Moderator
 
Frenchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alma, QC.
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
This only furthers my theory that Ryan's gonna get Drury'd out of town.
Hmmm, that's an interesting POV and i like it .

On the surface i say that maybe you're pushing the panic button way to early.
But , like i said that's an interesting way to see things and without a doubt , maybe we should keep in mind your comment , for future reference.

I still think that it wont happend, but reading your comment made me doubts

Frenchy is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:46 AM
  #57
Jeff_Dyck_#1
Est. MMII
 
Jeff_Dyck_#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: HF since 1998
Country: Serbia
Posts: 500
vCash: 500
AVS Organization 1995-2003 Vs AVS Organization 2003-2012

How the mighty have fallen.

Jeff_Dyck_#1 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:53 AM
  #58
klozge
Avs
 
klozge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Siegen, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_Dyck_#1 View Post
AVS Organization 1995-2003 Vs AVS Organization 2003-2012

How the mighty have fallen.
You can't blame the Avs for the lockout.

klozge is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 09:55 AM
  #59
Freudian
luck paper scissors
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 26,825
vCash: 50
Seems a bit odd, but I'll reserve judgment until the details are in.

I think there is a very high probability that he'll agreed with the team to be able to leave when NHL starts up again.


Last edited by Freudian: 12-07-2012 at 10:03 AM.
Freudian is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:38 AM
  #60
electricjib
Registered User
 
electricjib's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,276
vCash: 50
Hate to say it but I think ROR is a goner.

Knowing how the Avs have moved Quincey, Stewart and others that have made similar decisions or stepped away in some form like this.

I think when the CBA is up, regardless if they want to move him or not I think ROR's rights get traded. Similar to how we got Varly.

This is my personal opinion. I'll be surprised to see him skate for the Avs again. Especially since he signed a 2 year deal.

electricjib is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 10:57 AM
  #61
henchman24
#ImagineAvs
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricjib View Post
Hate to say it but I think ROR is a goner.

Knowing how the Avs have moved Quincey, Stewart and others that have made similar decisions or stepped away in some form like this.

I think when the CBA is up, regardless if they want to move him or not I think ROR's rights get traded. Similar to how we got Varly.

This is my personal opinion. I'll be surprised to see him skate for the Avs again. Especially since he signed a 2 year deal.

Yep... the Avalanche organization is notorious for trading players that drive a hard bargain. The Avs might sign him to a deal, but he will be shipped out within a few months, especially with having Stastny and Duchene as top 6 centers already.

IMO it will probably be a deal ROR + Elliot/Barrie (whoever the Avs like less at the moment) for a young top pairing potential D and a prospect center.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:00 AM
  #62
Freudian
luck paper scissors
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 26,825
vCash: 50
You guys are over-analyzing things. He'll be back with the Avs.

Freudian is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:00 AM
  #63
bohlmeister
Horny for Offense!
 
bohlmeister's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,407
vCash: 400
Quote:
Originally Posted by electricjib View Post
Hate to say it but I think ROR is a goner.

Knowing how the Avs have moved Quincey, Stewart and others that have made similar decisions or stepped away in some form like this.

I think when the CBA is up, regardless if they want to move him or not I think ROR's rights get traded. Similar to how we got Varly.

This is my personal opinion. I'll be surprised to see him skate for the Avs again. Especially since he signed a 2 year deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Yep... the Avalanche organization is notorious for trading players that drive a hard bargain. The Avs might sign him to a deal, but he will be shipped out within a few months, especially with having Stastny and Duchene as top 6 centers already.

IMO it will probably be a deal ROR + Elliot/Barrie (whoever the Avs like less at the moment) for a young top pairing potential D and a prospect center.
Hope it doesn't happen. If it does I hope it is to the Jets. I like cheering for them already. Might become my new #1.

bohlmeister is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:04 AM
  #64
henchman24
#ImagineAvs
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
You guys are over-analyzing things. He'll be back with the Avs.
Besides Svatos, I can't think of a player that gave the Avs trouble contract wise that has been retained since ~03. Please correct me if I am wrong.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:05 AM
  #65
Jeff_Dyck_#1
Est. MMII
 
Jeff_Dyck_#1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: HF since 1998
Country: Serbia
Posts: 500
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
You guys are over-analyzing things. He'll be back with the Avs.
Only if there is no other option available.

Jeff_Dyck_#1 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:10 AM
  #66
Freudian
luck paper scissors
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 26,825
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Besides Svatos, I can't think of a player that gave the Avs trouble contract wise that has been retained since ~03. Please correct me if I am wrong.
That's a lazy argument.

Paying Stastny $6.6M/year is not a player giving Avs trouble contract wise but paying Stewart $2.25M/year is?

Under Sherman, what players have they gotten rid of? Quincey and Stewart were moved in trades to gain something we currently don't have. If there were any problems with Stewart it had more to do with his behavior and not with his contracting demands.

Lacroix may have had an issue with players holding out, but there is no reason to assume Sherman has. In this case, it's not even a player holding out but more both parties agreeing to suspend negotiations until they knew what the new CBA looked like.

Relax. Don't panic. Have some chocolate milk.

Freudian is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:15 AM
  #67
TheFactor
Johnny Malkin
 
TheFactor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,338
vCash: 500
The 2 yr deal is just a negotiating tactic. If the Avs offer him more money than what the Russian team is paying he'll come back. But it certainly doesn't look good right now seems like the Avs were low balling him.

TheFactor is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:23 AM
  #68
Rhaego
Registered User
 
Rhaego's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 6,518
vCash: 50
If he didn't (in some way, shape, or form) let the Avs know about this hes gone. This is clearly a negotiating ploy for him once the lockout ends imo.

And please stop saying he's going to stay in Russia, theres an out clause and as much as KHL owners have murky in the past, there is absolutely no way they try to go the "non-binding" path. Not in there best interest, especially in this day in age.

Rhaego is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:27 AM
  #69
Pierce Hawthorne
Formerly Avsare1
 
Pierce Hawthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Caverns of Draconis
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,641
vCash: 500
Its funny how overreactive non Avs fans are approaching this...

I can say with 95% confidence that Oreilly has a pretty easy out clause from that contract. As has been said many times before, his team is the Avs, he wouldnt just abandon the team that drafted him and has treated him so well throughout his career(Not resigning him before the lockout wasnt treating him poorly, it was taking things slow to understand everything before making a big signing).

If theres a season this year Oreilly will be back, although at this point it looks unlikely that there will be a season..

Also find it funny how prejudice some of the big KHL/Russian hockey fans are acting in this whole situation.

Pierce Hawthorne is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #70
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 10,061
vCash: 239
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
There's a huge grey area when it comes to the NHL/KHL contract responses. We have no official transfer agreement and different contractual rules.

I know for a fact the Avs were forbidden from signing Denis Parshin despite his KHL contract being up, because KHL rules retained him as a RFA and automatically gave him a contract upon a submitted qualifying offer.

Meanwhile with Hudler, because Detroit did not wish to sign the Arbitration contract he was awarded, he was subsequently freed up from his RFA obligations within the NHL and permitted to sign in the KHL. Were he traded/signed his KHL contract would have become void.

So the real legal holdup from what I understand is that the lockout came into effect and prevented the Avs from signing O'Reilly. Whether that would, if it came to arguing over his return, prevent him from coming back to the NHL is the question. He had a previous contract in the NHL, is an RFA in the NHL, his team did not refuse to sign him, therefore I believe his contractual priority would lie in the NHL when Colorado offers him a deal once the lockout ends. If the KHL should argue he is their property, this should in theory nullify any of their prior arguments that their RFAs remain their property as well.

Sounds like a double standard if that road were to be taken.
This is what I've gathered after reading some of Dmitry Chesnokov's interpretations of the NHL-KHL agreements. It was extended until 2013 as well.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:34 AM
  #71
henchman24
#ImagineAvs
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 8,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
That's a lazy argument.

Paying Stastny $6.6M/year is not a player giving Avs trouble contract wise but paying Stewart $2.25M/year is?

Under Sherman, what players have they gotten rid of? Quincey and Stewart were moved in trades to gain something we currently don't have. If there were any problems with Stewart it had more to do with his behavior and not with his contracting demands.

Lacroix may have had an issue with players holding out, but there is no reason to assume Sherman has. In this case, it's not even a player holding out but more both parties agreeing to suspend negotiations until they knew what the new CBA looked like.

Relax. Don't panic. Have some chocolate milk.
It isn't about the actual money, it is paying players more than they are worth. Yes, you can argue Stastny is overpaid (though he would get that as a UFA), but he wasn't trouble to negotiate with nor has he been a cancer at any time.

Quincey - was going to demand too much money, and had attitude issues with the coaching staff
Stewart - was going to demand too much money for a player with a poor work ethic
Anderson - he demanded too much in the Avs minds after one good year, he pouted and they sent him off
Wolski - see Stewart

All of those players had contract issues and were sent out. The Avs did what they could to bring back the most value, but everyone except maybe Stewart, the writing was on the wall. Those trades are all under Sherman.

Lacroix still has his hands in things. No doubt about it. Lacroix made some exceptions in the past, see Sakic, but the overall organization has pretty much said if you are going to demand too much money, you will be sent packing.


Last edited by henchman24: 12-07-2012 at 11:40 AM.
henchman24 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:34 AM
  #72
ThunderBird
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 99
vCash: 500
I don't think any of us knows what was happening during O'Reilly's contract negotiations with the Avs. The Russian team might just be looking for a loophole to get another NHL'er on the squad, I mean I know that NHL general managers would never find loopholes to bring in talent. /sarcasm

I don't think the KHL or NHL gets to decide whether the verbal opt out agreement is binding. So basically I don't think any knows anything and unless there is hockey this year we aren't going to find out.

ThunderBird is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:39 AM
  #73
Rhaego
Registered User
 
Rhaego's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Country: Norfolk Island
Posts: 6,518
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
That's a lazy argument.

Paying Stastny $6.6M/year is not a player giving Avs trouble contract wise but paying Stewart $2.25M/year is?

Under Sherman, what players have they gotten rid of? Quincey and Stewart were moved in trades to gain something we currently don't have. If there were any problems with Stewart it had more to do with his behavior and not with his contracting demands.

Lacroix may have had an issue with players holding out, but there is no reason to assume Sherman has. In this case, it's not even a player holding out but more both parties agreeing to suspend negotiations until they knew what the new CBA looked like.

Relax. Don't panic. Have some chocolate milk.
Lacroix still has his voice heard and I highly doubt he'll take a KHL signing as bargaining chip lightly (assuming this is that.)

Rhaego is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:53 AM
  #74
Avs71
Registered User
 
Avs71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,745
vCash: 500
How long before the first O'Reilly trade thread?

"With O'Reilly playing in the KHL the next two seasons, what would the Avs want for his rights? Would random prospect + 2nd be enough?"

Then Avs fans will say he's coming back once the lockout is done, and even if he wasn't he's worth more than that.

And then other fans will say he is a overrated third line center, going to be in the KHL for 2 years, is probably not even worth random prospect+2nd because he is a risk.

Avs71 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 11:58 AM
  #75
Freudian
luck paper scissors
 
Freudian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Sweden
Posts: 26,825
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
It isn't about the actual money, it is paying players more than they are worth. Yes, you can argue Stastny is overpaid (though he would get that as a UFA), but he wasn't trouble to negotiate with nor has he been a cancer at any time.

Quincey - was going to demand too much money, and had attitude issues with the coaching staff
Stewart - was going to demand too much money for a player with a poor work ethic
Anderson - he demanded too much in the Avs minds after one good year, he pouted and they sent him off
Wolski - see Stewart

All of those players had contract issues and were sent out. The Avs did what they could to bring back the most value, but everyone except maybe Stewart, the writing was on the wall. Those trades are all under Sherman.

Lacroix still has his hands in things. No doubt about it. Lacroix made some exceptions in the past, see Sakic, but the overall organization has pretty much said if you are going to demand too much money, you will be sent packing.
You have no idea if Stastny was hard to negotiate with or not. We do know he is making more money than any of the 'trouble makers'. He's the only one that managed to get Avs to pay him significantly more than he is worth.

Wolski and Stewart had very low compete and there were off-ice issues with Stewart. Avs trading them has if anything been vindicated by their performances after the trades. Avs simply sold high on them.

Andy got traded because he played awful. I think if anything it was both sides souring on each other. Andy got pissed because Avs wouldn't offer him a long term deal and Avs got pissed because he stank on the ice.

Quincey got traded because he was going to be too expensive to retain for what he brings on the ice. Now he's in Detroit making $3.7M/year.

There isn't really anything to this theory that Avs trade players who drive hard bargains these days other than a narrative that this forum uses. Basically it's assumed that players who are traded are traded because of their contract demands, thus Avs trade players who are tough negotiators.

If it makes you happy, you are free to await the inevitable O'Reilly trade because of his trouble maker nature.

Freudian is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.