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Lockout Signings, Part II

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Old
12-07-2012, 10:42 AM
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Aren't lockout contracts in the KHL only allowed to be one year (or the rest of the year)? This is an actual KHL deal, so he won't get out of it once the lockout ends.
Well, it might not fall under a "lockout contract" in KHL rules, it might be a regular KHL import contract, or didn't they have any spot remaining? If it's just a regular contract, that doesn't preclude the possibility that there's some kind of out-clause for him to leave at some point in time. Only sense I can make of it.

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12-07-2012, 10:49 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by bottomofthefoodchain View Post
Pretty obvious he has some kind of NHL clause in the contract.
According to the club, there's a non-binding verbal agreement that if he recieves a better deal from an NHL team he can opt out of his KHL contract. The important words there are "non-binding" and "better." If Colorado doesn't offer him a higher salary, Magnitogorsk has a loophole to deny voiding his KHL deal. And even if Colorado does offer a higher salary, this could still get very messy if he attempts to return to the NHL without buying out the rest of his contract.

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12-07-2012, 10:51 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Well, it might not fall under a "lockout contract" in KHL rules, it might be a regular KHL import contract, or didn't they have any spot remaining? If it's just a regular contract, that doesn't preclude the possibility that there's some kind of out-clause for him to leave at some point in time. Only sense I can make of it.
Since O'Reilly doesn't currently have an NHL contract (he's a RFA), he is not considered an NHL player by the KHL. Such, he cannot be offered a lockout contract and does not count against the 3 NHL spots each KHL team is allowed. Magnitogorsk already has filled those 3 NHL spots with Malkin, Kulemin, and Gonchar.

See my previous post about his verbal, non-binding out clause.

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12-07-2012, 10:53 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
According to the club, there's a non-binding verbal agreement that if he recieves a better deal from an NHL team he can opt out of his KHL contract. The important words there are "non-binding" and "better." If Colorado doesn't offer him a higher salary, Magnitogorsk has a loophole to deny voiding his KHL deal. And even if Colorado does offer a higher salary, this could still get very messy if he attempts to return to the NHL without buying out the rest of his contract.
Well, a couple another important words are "according to the club". Not sure why O'Reilly would tie himself to a non-binding agreement like that. Such a clause is of significant importance, and what kind of agent would count on a non-binding agreement to care for his clients' will? It just doesn't seem very likely that's all there is to it, from O'Reilly's side.

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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Since O'Reilly doesn't currently have an NHL contract (he's a RFA), he is not considered an NHL player by the KHL. Such, he cannot be offered a lockout contract and does not count against the 3 NHL spots each KHL team is allowed. Magnitogorsk already has filled those 3 NHL spots with Malkin, Kulemin, and Gonchar.
That's what I hinted at - that it's not a lockout deal. But I'm really not sold on there being no more certain out-clause.

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12-07-2012, 10:58 AM
  #355
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I'm getting torched on this by KHL/non-Avs fans, but once again it simply would not be a case where O'Reilly would sign a contract and not have A. Spoken to the Avs and confirmed it was ok and B. Have thoroughly been convinced he can leave for the NHL when the times comes to return.

That's not O'Reilly's style. He's not going home to play either. Unless he got an absurd contract in the 5mil+ range then he's not making much more than he would in the NHL and on top of that all it was confirmed numerous times that he is only without an NHL contract because both sides wanted to see the CBA shake out before signing.

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12-07-2012, 11:12 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'm getting torched on this by KHL/non-Avs fans, but once again it simply would not be a case where O'Reilly would sign a contract and not have A. Spoken to the Avs and confirmed it was ok and B. Have thoroughly been convinced he can leave for the NHL when the times comes to return.

That's not O'Reilly's style. He's not going home to play either. Unless he got an absurd contract in the 5mil+ range then he's not making much more than he would in the NHL and on top of that all it was confirmed numerous times that he is only without an NHL contract because both sides wanted to see the CBA shake out before signing.
I think his style is to get paid to play hockey.

It's incredibly strange that this is a 2 year deal.

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12-07-2012, 11:23 AM
  #357
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Most likely a smart way by O'Reilly and his agent to get Colorado to match and exceed his KHL salary. Avs like to play hard with their RFAs.

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12-07-2012, 11:30 AM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'm getting torched on this by KHL/non-Avs fans, but once again it simply would not be a case where O'Reilly would sign a contract and not have A. Spoken to the Avs and confirmed it was ok and B. Have thoroughly been convinced he can leave for the NHL when the times comes to return.

That's not O'Reilly's style. He's not going home to play either. Unless he got an absurd contract in the 5mil+ range then he's not making much more than he would in the NHL and on top of that all it was confirmed numerous times that he is only without an NHL contract because both sides wanted to see the CBA shake out before signing.
I don't think he asked Colorado if its ok because he isn't / wasn't employed by them.

He's a big boy and his agent knows anything he needs to know.

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12-07-2012, 11:39 AM
  #359
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Related question, what kind of contact between team management and players is allowed during the lockout? I know the owners and players aren't supposed to talk (didn't stop Crosby and Pens ownership, I know), so does that extend to people hired to represent the owners' interests in managing their hockey team?

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12-07-2012, 11:44 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Most likely a smart way by O'Reilly and his agent to get Colorado to match and exceed his KHL salary. Avs like to play hard with their RFAs.
No kidding

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12-07-2012, 11:48 AM
  #361
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Such a clause is of significant importance, and what kind of agent would count on a non-binding agreement to care for his clients' will?
What would you do if you were agent? You can not have nhl out clause in KHL contract, so what to do? Only verbal deal.

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12-07-2012, 11:49 AM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bure View Post
I don't think he asked Colorado if its ok because he isn't / wasn't employed by them.

He's a big boy and his agent knows anything he needs to know.
O'Reilly is currently a RFA and therefore his rights are still held by the Avs. As far as I know, O'Reilly or his agent would have to inform managemet of his intentions of signing with another team/league, even in a lockout scenario.

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12-07-2012, 11:49 AM
  #363
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Signs of things to come.

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12-07-2012, 11:51 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by bananaz View Post
O'Reilly is currently a RFA and therefore his rights are still held by the Avs. As far as I know, O'Reilly or his agent would have to inform managemet of his intentions of signing with another team/league, even in a lockout scenario.
Does not make sense. Give me a direct quote from CBA or rules.

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12-07-2012, 11:52 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Well, a couple another important words are "according to the club". Not sure why O'Reilly would tie himself to a non-binding agreement like that. Such a clause is of significant importance, and what kind of agent would count on a non-binding agreement to care for his clients' will? It just doesn't seem very likely that's all there is to it, from O'Reilly's side.
You're basing that on the assumption that he wants to play for the Avalanche/in the NHL above wanting to play for Magniogorsk/in the KHL. While that isn't a very risky assumption to make, since it's probably true, it's an assumption none the less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
What would you do if you were agent? You can not have nhl out clause in KHL contract, so what to do? Only verbal deal.
Advocate that he plays hockey in a league other than the KHL during the lockout.

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12-07-2012, 11:58 AM
  #366
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they should broadcast KHL games

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12-07-2012, 11:59 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bananaz View Post
O'Reilly is currently a RFA and therefore his rights are still held by the Avs. As far as I know, O'Reilly or his agent would have to inform managemet of his intentions of signing with another team/league, even in a lockout scenario.
The only thing being an RFA effects is his ability to sign with other NHL teams. Since he doesn't have a contract with Colorado, he doesn't have to tell them anything. Just like he wouldn't have to tell them if he got up quit hockey and got a job as a janitor. The KHL is just another job for him, he is not required to tell Colorado anything.


Although he probably did because he lost likely wishes to return.

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12-07-2012, 12:08 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Bure View Post
The only thing being an RFA effects is his ability to sign with other NHL teams. Since he doesn't have a contract with Colorado, he doesn't have to tell them anything. Just like he wouldn't have to tell them if he got up quit hockey and got a job as a janitor. The KHL is just another job for him, he is not required to tell Colorado anything.
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Does not make sense. Give me a direct quote from CBA or rules.
According to past Russian decisions pertaining to the likes of Parshin, Shirokov, Hudler and Dadonov among others, O'Reilly's status as an RFA in the NHL and should he be offered a contract, should subsequently free him of any binding contract in the KHL because he is the property (how Draconian I sound saying that) of Colorado.

Hudler, RFA in the NHL, would have had his KHL contract nullified if he were traded/signed by another NHL club (since Detroit refused).

Assuming the KHL still maintains the silly mandatory 28-years of age RFA laws that Parshin/Shirokov went to court over, they would have to try and justify O'Reilly's contract with the KHL over his obligation to his NHL club in a mediation meeting. Proving that his KHL contract takes precedence over his Restricted Free Agency standing within the NHL.

This would open the door to NHL clubs signing KHL RFAs should they wish and completely nullify any existing respect that NHL clubs were obligated to maintain in regards to KHL-RFA status where they may automatically re-sign their players using simple qualifying offers.

Of course, we're in a lockout so the bylaws are grey at best. But O'Reilly is far from required to play in the KHL for the duration of this contract if what I've been reading is still accurate.

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12-07-2012, 12:08 PM
  #369
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If he were to leave to come back to the NHL, could Magnitogorsk toll his contract until he comes back for whatever reason?

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12-07-2012, 12:13 PM
  #370
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Wow, Avs had something good going. This is a massive blow. The key to this is like a previous poster said, "better". Are the Avs going to offer him a "better" deal. I think that is unlikely given their history. Good for the rest of the West though. ROR was a very good player.

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12-07-2012, 12:22 PM
  #371
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Lonewolfe2015

Maybe there are details about RFA´s system (both KHL and NHL), I have no info about it, make research. I understand KHL-NHL MoU like this - RFA/UFA means you dont have contract, so you are free to sign in other league.

D Kulikov, as NHL RFA, signed ONE-year deal with Lokomotiv Yaroslavl. Why did O´Reilly sign TWO-year deal if he wants to come back immediately? Is there any doubt that Kulikov will play whole season in KHL (lockout or not)? I dont think so.

Andrei Kostitsyn, as NHL UFA, signed one year deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk. He will play this season in KHL, no doubt.

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12-07-2012, 12:28 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Lonewolfe2015

Maybe there are details about RFA´s system (both KHL and NHL), I have no info about it, make research. I understand KHL-NHL MoU like this - RFA/UFA means you dont have contract, so you are free to sign in other league.

D Kulikov, as NHL RFA, signed ONE-year deal with Lokomotiv Yaroslavl. Why did O´Reilly sign TWO-year deal if he wants to come back immediately? Is there any doubt that Kulikov will play whole season in KHL (lockout or not)? I dont think so.

Andrei Kostitsyn, as NHL UFA, signed one year deal with Traktor Chelyabinsk. He will play this season in KHL, no doubt.
There's a huge grey area when it comes to the NHL/KHL contract responses. We have no official transfer agreement and different contractual rules.

I know for a fact the Avs were forbidden from signing Denis Parshin despite his KHL contract being up, because KHL rules retained him as a RFA and automatically gave him a contract upon a submitted qualifying offer.

Meanwhile with Hudler, because Detroit did not wish to sign the Arbitration contract he was awarded, he was subsequently freed up from his RFA obligations within the NHL and permitted to sign in the KHL. Were he traded/signed his KHL contract would have become void.

So the real legal holdup from what I understand is that the lockout came into effect and prevented the Avs from signing O'Reilly. Whether that would, if it came to arguing over his return, prevent him from coming back to the NHL is the question. He had a previous contract in the NHL, is an RFA in the NHL, his team did not refuse to sign him, therefore I believe his contractual priority would lie in the NHL when Colorado offers him a deal once the lockout ends. If the KHL should argue he is their property, this should in theory nullify any of their prior arguments that their RFAs remain their property as well.

Sounds like a double standard if that road were to be taken.

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12-07-2012, 12:35 PM
  #373
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I worry more about RORs future with the Avs than him staying in the KHL.

It makes no sense for a KHL to go down the "non-legally" bonding pathway. It isn't good for player negotiations or NHL-KHL relations (not to mention the fact that it would probably piss of fans everywhere)

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12-07-2012, 12:48 PM
  #374
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Goodbye and good luck Radar, it's been nice knowing you.

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12-07-2012, 12:49 PM
  #375
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Verbal agreement with the Russians? Good luck with that!

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