not true. He can leave whenever Magnitogorsk agrees. OR he can buy out KHL contract whenever he wants. It is not like "KHL contract is terminated at the moment when he gets NHL offer (higher or same)" No it is not like this.
There is a scenario
1. He gets offer from Avs
2. He decided to sign it but he cant (he has KHL contract)
3. He is obligated to terminate KHL contract earlier, so Magnitogorsk must agree (dont have to, depends on will). Ryan has no chance to sue Magnitogorsk for "not terminating contract". Termination is based on the will of club and players. See no problem.
4. If KHL contract is terminated, he can sign with Avs (not do the same error as Prokhorkin )
Yeah, I can't help but be a little concerned about this.
Because if by some miracle there is NHL Hockey this year, the Magnitogorsk GM is expecting Ryan to play the entire year in the KHL. And this "verbal non-binding" out clause just doesn't sound right.
I hope this isn't cause for concern for Ryan's future with the team.
Let's be reasonable here and not assume the worst. I don't trust the KHL or its clubs as much as the next guy, but O'Reilly is the heart and soul type of guy that would never betray his team. His team is Colorado, not Magnitogorsk.
We'll see him back in the NHL when it resumes, one way or another.
This, i agree with lonewolfe
At first , it looks like we may be in trouble and it doesnt look good , but let's not jump conclusions to early. The way i see it , the worst scenario is that Ryan will play the rest of the year in the KHL... in the mean time we're not even sure yet if the NHL will play hockey this year .
This only furthers my theory that Ryan's gonna get Drury'd out of town.
Hmmm, that's an interesting POV and i like it .
On the surface i say that maybe you're pushing the panic button way to early.
But , like i said that's an interesting way to see things and without a doubt , maybe we should keep in mind your comment , for future reference.
I still think that it wont happend, but reading your comment made me doubts
Knowing how the Avs have moved Quincey, Stewart and others that have made similar decisions or stepped away in some form like this.
I think when the CBA is up, regardless if they want to move him or not I think ROR's rights get traded. Similar to how we got Varly.
This is my personal opinion. I'll be surprised to see him skate for the Avs again. Especially since he signed a 2 year deal.
Yep... the Avalanche organization is notorious for trading players that drive a hard bargain. The Avs might sign him to a deal, but he will be shipped out within a few months, especially with having Stastny and Duchene as top 6 centers already.
IMO it will probably be a deal ROR + Elliot/Barrie (whoever the Avs like less at the moment) for a young top pairing potential D and a prospect center.
Knowing how the Avs have moved Quincey, Stewart and others that have made similar decisions or stepped away in some form like this.
I think when the CBA is up, regardless if they want to move him or not I think ROR's rights get traded. Similar to how we got Varly.
This is my personal opinion. I'll be surprised to see him skate for the Avs again. Especially since he signed a 2 year deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24
Yep... the Avalanche organization is notorious for trading players that drive a hard bargain. The Avs might sign him to a deal, but he will be shipped out within a few months, especially with having Stastny and Duchene as top 6 centers already.
IMO it will probably be a deal ROR + Elliot/Barrie (whoever the Avs like less at the moment) for a young top pairing potential D and a prospect center.
Hope it doesn't happen. If it does I hope it is to the Jets. I like cheering for them already. Might become my new #1.
Besides Svatos, I can't think of a player that gave the Avs trouble contract wise that has been retained since ~03. Please correct me if I am wrong.
That's a lazy argument.
Paying Stastny $6.6M/year is not a player giving Avs trouble contract wise but paying Stewart $2.25M/year is?
Under Sherman, what players have they gotten rid of? Quincey and Stewart were moved in trades to gain something we currently don't have. If there were any problems with Stewart it had more to do with his behavior and not with his contracting demands.
Lacroix may have had an issue with players holding out, but there is no reason to assume Sherman has. In this case, it's not even a player holding out but more both parties agreeing to suspend negotiations until they knew what the new CBA looked like.
The 2 yr deal is just a negotiating tactic. If the Avs offer him more money than what the Russian team is paying he'll come back. But it certainly doesn't look good right now seems like the Avs were low balling him.
If he didn't (in some way, shape, or form) let the Avs know about this hes gone. This is clearly a negotiating ploy for him once the lockout ends imo.
And please stop saying he's going to stay in Russia, theres an out clause and as much as KHL owners have murky in the past, there is absolutely no way they try to go the "non-binding" path. Not in there best interest, especially in this day in age.
Its funny how overreactive non Avs fans are approaching this...
I can say with 95% confidence that Oreilly has a pretty easy out clause from that contract. As has been said many times before, his team is the Avs, he wouldnt just abandon the team that drafted him and has treated him so well throughout his career(Not resigning him before the lockout wasnt treating him poorly, it was taking things slow to understand everything before making a big signing).
If theres a season this year Oreilly will be back, although at this point it looks unlikely that there will be a season..
Also find it funny how prejudice some of the big KHL/Russian hockey fans are acting in this whole situation.
There's a huge grey area when it comes to the NHL/KHL contract responses. We have no official transfer agreement and different contractual rules.
I know for a fact the Avs were forbidden from signing Denis Parshin despite his KHL contract being up, because KHL rules retained him as a RFA and automatically gave him a contract upon a submitted qualifying offer.
Meanwhile with Hudler, because Detroit did not wish to sign the Arbitration contract he was awarded, he was subsequently freed up from his RFA obligations within the NHL and permitted to sign in the KHL. Were he traded/signed his KHL contract would have become void.
So the real legal holdup from what I understand is that the lockout came into effect and prevented the Avs from signing O'Reilly. Whether that would, if it came to arguing over his return, prevent him from coming back to the NHL is the question. He had a previous contract in the NHL, is an RFA in the NHL, his team did not refuse to sign him, therefore I believe his contractual priority would lie in the NHL when Colorado offers him a deal once the lockout ends. If the KHL should argue he is their property, this should in theory nullify any of their prior arguments that their RFAs remain their property as well.
Sounds like a double standard if that road were to be taken.
This is what I've gathered after reading some of Dmitry Chesnokov's interpretations of the NHL-KHL agreements. It was extended until 2013 as well.
Paying Stastny $6.6M/year is not a player giving Avs trouble contract wise but paying Stewart $2.25M/year is?
Under Sherman, what players have they gotten rid of? Quincey and Stewart were moved in trades to gain something we currently don't have. If there were any problems with Stewart it had more to do with his behavior and not with his contracting demands.
Lacroix may have had an issue with players holding out, but there is no reason to assume Sherman has. In this case, it's not even a player holding out but more both parties agreeing to suspend negotiations until they knew what the new CBA looked like.
Relax. Don't panic. Have some chocolate milk.
It isn't about the actual money, it is paying players more than they are worth. Yes, you can argue Stastny is overpaid (though he would get that as a UFA), but he wasn't trouble to negotiate with nor has he been a cancer at any time.
Quincey - was going to demand too much money, and had attitude issues with the coaching staff
Stewart - was going to demand too much money for a player with a poor work ethic
Anderson - he demanded too much in the Avs minds after one good year, he pouted and they sent him off
Wolski - see Stewart
All of those players had contract issues and were sent out. The Avs did what they could to bring back the most value, but everyone except maybe Stewart, the writing was on the wall. Those trades are all under Sherman.
Lacroix still has his hands in things. No doubt about it. Lacroix made some exceptions in the past, see Sakic, but the overall organization has pretty much said if you are going to demand too much money, you will be sent packing.
Last edited by henchman24: 12-07-2012 at 11:40 AM.
I don't think any of us knows what was happening during O'Reilly's contract negotiations with the Avs. The Russian team might just be looking for a loophole to get another NHL'er on the squad, I mean I know that NHL general managers would never find loopholes to bring in talent. /sarcasm
I don't think the KHL or NHL gets to decide whether the verbal opt out agreement is binding. So basically I don't think any knows anything and unless there is hockey this year we aren't going to find out.
Paying Stastny $6.6M/year is not a player giving Avs trouble contract wise but paying Stewart $2.25M/year is?
Under Sherman, what players have they gotten rid of? Quincey and Stewart were moved in trades to gain something we currently don't have. If there were any problems with Stewart it had more to do with his behavior and not with his contracting demands.
Lacroix may have had an issue with players holding out, but there is no reason to assume Sherman has. In this case, it's not even a player holding out but more both parties agreeing to suspend negotiations until they knew what the new CBA looked like.
Relax. Don't panic. Have some chocolate milk.
Lacroix still has his voice heard and I highly doubt he'll take a KHL signing as bargaining chip lightly (assuming this is that.)
"With O'Reilly playing in the KHL the next two seasons, what would the Avs want for his rights? Would random prospect + 2nd be enough?"
Then Avs fans will say he's coming back once the lockout is done, and even if he wasn't he's worth more than that.
And then other fans will say he is a overrated third line center, going to be in the KHL for 2 years, is probably not even worth random prospect+2nd because he is a risk.
It isn't about the actual money, it is paying players more than they are worth. Yes, you can argue Stastny is overpaid (though he would get that as a UFA), but he wasn't trouble to negotiate with nor has he been a cancer at any time.
Quincey - was going to demand too much money, and had attitude issues with the coaching staff
Stewart - was going to demand too much money for a player with a poor work ethic
Anderson - he demanded too much in the Avs minds after one good year, he pouted and they sent him off
Wolski - see Stewart
All of those players had contract issues and were sent out. The Avs did what they could to bring back the most value, but everyone except maybe Stewart, the writing was on the wall. Those trades are all under Sherman.
Lacroix still has his hands in things. No doubt about it. Lacroix made some exceptions in the past, see Sakic, but the overall organization has pretty much said if you are going to demand too much money, you will be sent packing.
You have no idea if Stastny was hard to negotiate with or not. We do know he is making more money than any of the 'trouble makers'. He's the only one that managed to get Avs to pay him significantly more than he is worth.
Wolski and Stewart had very low compete and there were off-ice issues with Stewart. Avs trading them has if anything been vindicated by their performances after the trades. Avs simply sold high on them.
Andy got traded because he played awful. I think if anything it was both sides souring on each other. Andy got pissed because Avs wouldn't offer him a long term deal and Avs got pissed because he stank on the ice.
Quincey got traded because he was going to be too expensive to retain for what he brings on the ice. Now he's in Detroit making $3.7M/year.
There isn't really anything to this theory that Avs trade players who drive hard bargains these days other than a narrative that this forum uses. Basically it's assumed that players who are traded are traded because of their contract demands, thus Avs trade players who are tough negotiators.
If it makes you happy, you are free to await the inevitable O'Reilly trade because of his trouble maker nature.
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