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Lockout Discussion Thread 3.0

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Old
12-07-2012, 10:55 AM
  #876
Fozz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
NHLPA is just letting Fehr ruin the season. I have said it before, I will say it again:this is all about Fehr and his ego. Screw the players. Cancel the season and find a way to bring in replacement players to start a new season.
The owners went up by almost 100 million, intelligently want a 5 year limit on contracts knowing that SOME of the owners are stupid enough to try and manipulate any loopholes they can to fix their team without considering the negative impact on the game as a whole, and also added a 10 year term of security for the players, owners and fans. What happens? It is not good enough for the players. Wait, the offer was not voted upon by the union, but just voted down by the representatives? Yes, tell me how Fehr is trying to make things better for all of those average players with 6+ year long contracts... Fehr's "reputation" and the elite players' pockets are all that is being looked out for, at this point.

Thank goodness I am getting into Basketball more and more. I have not missed hockey as much as I thought I would, and am having almost as much fun in the basketball pools I joined as I have in the hockey pools.

It is time for the players to try and convince their union reps that the union should be representing all of the layers, not mainly the Crosby's. That was a great deal that just got scuppered.
I think you're missing the point that in every single way, the players are giving up a lot compared to their current situation. The owner are not giving back anything here. They are taking and taking a lot from the players.

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12-07-2012, 10:59 AM
  #877
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Bring in replacement players. I can't cheer for these idiots anymore.

I'll support the Habs for the logo and support players who want to play because they love hockey.

Plus it'll dismantle the NHLPA in a heartbeat. Most guys would jump ship and play. They are about as intelligent as a heard of sheep.

That press conference was the most pathetic thing I have ever seen other than a garbage reality show on television. It was absolutely sad to watch. Embarrassing is not even strong enough of a word.

Never thought I'd say this, but I would support replacement players now. It wouldn't be as good hockey, but at least it would be hockey.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:02 AM
  #878
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I wouldn't pay 120+$ to watch LNAH type of players...

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12-07-2012, 11:04 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
I wouldn't pay 120+$ to watch LNAH type of players...
Can't blame you. And if it doesn't work I really don't care. It's not like I have much more love for the owners. As far as I'm concerned they can all lose everything we have given them.

But at this point, when I see Crosby and the other ********* standing behind Fehr last night looking like deer caught in headlights, and after listening to Erik Cole and co I don't know how I am going to possibly cheer for these people. Just the sight of them now makes me want to vomit. That and I think that most of them would be playing the next day if the NHL went with replacement players so the level of hockey would return to what it should be soon enough.


Last edited by Jigger77: 12-07-2012 at 11:10 AM.
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Old
12-07-2012, 11:05 AM
  #880
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I wouldn't pay 120+$ to watch LNAH type of players...
I wouldn't either, however after another lockout and most probably another lost season, i'm not paying for NHL hockey either

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:06 AM
  #881
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Definately the sign of over expanding to poor hockey market!
Ummmm..... no! The expansion, the accompanying televison rights and other associated revenues are exactly what has allowed the league to employ more players and pay them ever increasing salaries.

The average salary has grown by almost 50% since the last lockout and while the last CBA was an improvement over what existed before, it still needed improvement. For the life of me I can't understand why the NHLPA is taking a position that jeopardizes the future of the industry in which they work. And they do it under the guise of fighting for the next generation of players. That is completely laughable.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:12 AM
  #882
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My hate toward this lockout is 100% focused on Garry Bettman because he had a white check from the PA in 2005 to make a revolutionary (as they called it themselves) CBA and 7 years later this perfect CBA is not good enough to support the poor team in poor market... Garry is going all in with this lockout so he can save his ass of poor expanding the league. How could Bettman sell it to the leafs, habs, rangers of this world (100% sure they promised them significant income from further expansion of 300m$ x 2) if the season is lost tough, i'm not sure the leafs and habs would be too enthusiastic about that tough..

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12-07-2012, 11:14 AM
  #883
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
My hate toward this lockout is 100% focused on Garry Bettman because he had a white check from the PA in 2005 to make a revolutionary (as they called it themselves) CBA and 7 years later this perfect CBA is not good enough to support the poor team in poor market... Garry is going all in with this lockout so he can save his ass of poor expanding the league. How could Bettman sell it to the leafs, habs, rangers of this world (100% sure they promised them significant income from further expansion of 300m$ x 2) if the season is lost tough, i'm not sure the leafs and habs would be too enthusiastic about that tough..
Sorry, but it takes more than 1 guy to get the lockout to where it is. If you think Gary has this much control, you are mistaken. He's a puppet.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:17 AM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Ummmm..... no! The expansion, the accompanying televison rights and other associated revenues are exactly what has allowed the league to employ more players and pay them ever increasing salaries.

The average salary has grown by almost 50% since the last lockout and while the last CBA was an improvement over what existed before, it still needed improvement. For the life of me I can't understand why the NHLPA is taking a position that jeopardizes the future of the industry in which they work. And they do it under the guise of fighting for the next generation of players. That is completely laughable.
I disagree.

NHL US TV revenue compared to other major league are ridiculously low.. Furthermore ridiculous if you compare it to the canadian TV revenue. The expansions that constantly loose money year after year in a cap world with revenue sharing is unacceptable IMO.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:27 AM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
My hate toward this lockout is 100% focused on Garry Bettman because he had a white check from the PA in 2005 to make a revolutionary (as they called it themselves) CBA and 7 years later this perfect CBA is not good enough to support the poor team in poor market... Garry is going all in with this lockout so he can save his ass of poor expanding the league. How could Bettman sell it to the leafs, habs, rangers of this world (100% sure they promised them significant income from further expansion of 300m$ x 2) if the season is lost tough, i'm not sure the leafs and habs would be too enthusiastic about that tough..
Garry is also the one who wanted to get together talking new CBA last year which the PA refused and waited last minute

The players since the last lockout have seen their salaries go nothing but up, it's not like if their salaries went down

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12-07-2012, 11:28 AM
  #886
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
I disagree.

NHL US TV revenue compared to other major league are ridiculously low.. Furthermore ridiculous if you compare it to the canadian TV revenue. The expansions that constantly loose money year after year in a cap world with revenue sharing is unacceptable IMO.
If you take a look at the owners statements alone, and if you can consider Bettman's statement from last night you'll see there's much more to it than Bettman. Toronto owner seems to be very much on the lockout bus now after trying to negociate with players and Bettman said he had to convince owners to give an extra 100 mil on make whole, something owners had a problem with. So if you are to believe him he wants to give more than a lot of owners do (not every owner obviously, there are some out there that would sign the same deal as before if we started October 1st).

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #887
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Also seems to me that the biggest issue the owners had from Tuesday to Wednesday is that Tuesday there was excitement in room ready to get a deal done, everyone seemed to be heading down same route. On Wednesday after BOG meetings, based on reports from media and owners statements, the players were all of a sudden nonchalant about the whole process and there emotions were gone and it was back to playing poker, which seemed to infuriate the owners, probably why they stopped negotiating.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:32 AM
  #888
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I still don't see how this is unresolvable. Most of me would love to see the NHL be the first NA league in a decertified situation, I think it would utimately be good for Montreal fans... but short term for the players, and long term for the owners, isn't there a very easy compromise to be made on contract limits? Something like 7 years on the open market, 8 years to re-sign with the current team? Doesn't splitting the difference seem easy, and doesn't really cost either side anything (compared with the HRR battle)? I think this is the last bit of posturing before a resolution.

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12-07-2012, 11:38 AM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
If you take a look at the owners statements alone, and if you can consider Bettman's statement from last night you'll see there's much more to it than Bettman. Toronto owner seems to be very much on the lockout bus now after trying to negociate with players and Bettman said he had to convince owners to give an extra 100 mil on make whole, something owners had a problem with. So if you are to believe him he wants to give more than a lot of owners do (not every owner obviously, there are some out there that would sign the same deal as before if we started October 1st).
My instinct is that the four "moderate" owners' statements released simultaneously to the media seems like an orchestrated maneuver. Seems to me that given Bettman temporarily removed the muzzle at a critical juncture, there may have been some guidance or at least approval before the statements were released.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:44 AM
  #890
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and even then, if I had too I would lean more towards the owners...but Donal Fehr is doing EXACTLY what he was hired to do...get the best deal possible for the players

Did he bite off more than he can chew? Maybe...time will tell.
He's already failed to get the best deal for his members...they've pissed away 33% of their 2012-13 salary now (and possibly more) when the deal in October that the NHL was offering to save 82 games is pretty close to what was being offered this week. Fehr countered with his classic ''we want a guaranteed sum of money'' offer in October.

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12-07-2012, 11:51 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
He's already failed to get the best deal for his members...they've pissed away 33% of their 2012-13 salary now (and possibly more) when the deal in October that the NHL was offering to save 82 games is pretty close to what was being offered this week. Fehr countered with his classic ''we want a guaranteed sum of money'' offer in October.
Can't say I disagree...But I think the players were well aware and are prepared to lose this entire season in order to get a deal they feel is beneficial

right or wrong...

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:15 PM
  #892
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I definitely respect the overall toughness of NHL players... from Gionta to Chara.

But imo, the NHLPA is being too greedy at this point.

The old CBA is gone. Done. Over.


Making a little bit less (for now) will not change their finances significantly.

Looking forward to seeing the greedy ones lose it all for 2012-2013.

Especially Gomez and Bourque... and any other floaters

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:21 PM
  #893
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Ummmm..... no! The expansion, the accompanying televison rights and other associated revenues are exactly what has allowed the league to employ more players and pay them ever increasing salaries.

The average salary has grown by almost 50% since the last lockout and while the last CBA was an improvement over what existed before, it still needed improvement. For the life of me I can't understand why the NHLPA is taking a position that jeopardizes the future of the industry in which they work. And they do it under the guise of fighting for the next generation of players. That is completely laughable.
Excellent post!

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12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #894
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As repeated time and again before, this is not a realistic or plausible solution. Cloning the players using DNA found on used jockstraps is likely more realistic.
Darche!! EVERYWHERE!!!!

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12-07-2012, 12:41 PM
  #895
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Darche!! EVERYWHERE!!!!
Everywhere Darche!!!

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12-07-2012, 02:18 PM
  #896
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I think you're missing the point that in every single way, the players are giving up a lot compared to their current situation. The owner are not giving back anything here. They are taking and taking a lot from the players.
1- You can't give back what you don't have earned yet;

2- I dunno any players who have yet made a check, sold his house or luxury cars to give back to the owners;

3- For your info, we are globally in a financial recession. Some people are staying in tents in the US after having loss their homes.

4- 90% of your salary (contract) is way better than 0%, especially when we are talking millions $

5- Sorry, but NHL players won't make me cry.

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12-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #897
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The issue remains that these players are paid in line with the other 3 major sports, and league revenues don't support that.

This was bound to come to a head at some point.

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12-07-2012, 02:48 PM
  #898
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I think you're missing the point that in every single way, the players are giving up a lot compared to their current situation. The owner are not giving back anything here. They are taking and taking a lot from the players.
The owners pay every single bill associated with hockey. Every. Single. Cost. The players do not pay for their uniforms, sticks, pucks, travel costs, sleeping arrangements, trainers, team doctors, player salaries, arena costs, salaries for all related work employees, scouts, etc, etc, etc...

The players pay...well...N O T H I N G ! ! !

How are the owners "taking" anything away from the guys who get paid millions and pay NOTHING? They aren't. As explained previously, the owners simply want a 50/50 split of the owners' HRR (which does NOT include ANY of the players' HRR--isn't THAT fair?) and some conditions on contract lengths and the length of the CBA. Heck, maybe the players should have gone for a 7 year term at a 43/57 HRR split in favour of the owners so that the players could truly feel how insulting the conditions the owners just lived through truly were. Bloody hypocrites. The funny thing is that the owners simply want a fair and balanced equation, it is the players who keep trying to add cindtions where the actual split is not 50/50, but skewed towards the players' side.

Meh. Fehr is going to ruin everything. At which point, I really want to see replacement players. Let's watch the Habs play hockey sooner than later.

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12-07-2012, 02:49 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
I wouldn't pay 120+$ to watch LNAH type of players...
Of course, nobody would, and the owners will know this. I don't know what calibre of player they would ultimately be able to hire in a replacement scenario, but I would expect it to be higher than LNAH. And prices to be drastically reduced accordingly... to the price point where they have some hope of mostly-filling their rinks. Whatever that price point is. $10-20? $30? Not more than that, surely. Until/unless business picks up and allows them to raise the prices. It would just be based on demand, and for sure more expensive in Montreal than Miami, same as before in that sense. I pay those prices for junior or AHL games, so I wouldn't have a problem eventually paying them for a replacement Habs game, if I got the chance.

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12-07-2012, 02:57 PM
  #900
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
I disagree.

NHL US TV revenue compared to other major league are ridiculously low.. Furthermore ridiculous if you compare it to the canadian TV revenue.
Of course it is low but they started froms basically nothing. Did you notice how much those revenues have grown.


Quote:
The expansions that constantly loose money year after year in a cap world with revenue sharing is unacceptable IMO.
What would you suggest as alternatives for the ten or more franchises that are losing money? After Quebec City, where would you go? Hamilton might be an option and it might not.

That still leaves eight franchises that are losing money. Your choices are to relocate them (where would that be), implement a system that gives them an opportunity to make money or to reduce the number of teams in the league.

While the players blather on about the poor locations for franchises they haven't come up with a viable alternative. Perhaps you have some good ideas.

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