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NHL Lockout XXII: Stop everything - I think I hear the President

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:23 PM
  #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
More importantly, the 517 Million will never be offered, or made back.

Not to mention the time the players lose off their contracts and careers.
Here's the best part:

They lose an average of 9 million PER DAY. The owners do too, but most don't care, because owning an NHL team isn't their first monetary source.

Then, if you take this 517 million, and divide it by 700, (approx. number of players)

THE average player has lost $738,571

The average player loses $12, 857 per day!

(9,000,000/700)

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crapeze11 View Post
You can pretty much infer from the Upshall tweets that the PA is holding out until January when they think they can strike the most favorable deal for them.
That is EXACTLY what is going on. It's also why the NHLPA didn't start negotiating earlier and why even when given a yes/no offer, Fehr negotiates off of it. If a deal is to be made, Fehr (as long as he is in power) will not give his approval until we are at the drop dead date. If there is any time left on the clock, Fehr will wait, it's what he does.

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12-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
While I agree with what you're trying to say, you've got to remember that points are not everything in the NHL.

That being said, he is overpaid.
Points aren't everything, but this just goes to show how many god awful Hockey Players there are playing in the NHL when a player of his calibre (which is pretty low) is making that much. This lockout is also for all these awful players who want to gain the most they can, can't blame them, but god... there's no way these players are worth anything substantial.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #554
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch

Bruce Garrioch @SunGarrioch
Alfredsson on vote: “It can happen. I hope it doesn’t because I don’t think most of the players feel there is a deal for us right now."


ughhh, that's the whole point of a vote. You vote to find out if the majority of the players think the deal is fair. If they do then there IS a deal for you.
That statement makes absolutely no sense.

Does he know that what they're doing only benefits the top teir players? That's what it sounds like.

Maybe the players should've gotten mitt romney to be their director.

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12-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #555
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So is anything supposed to happen today?

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:25 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Here's the best part:

They lose an average of 9 million PER DAY. The owners do too, but most don't care, because owning an NHL team isn't their first monetary source.

Then, if you take this 517 million, and divide it by 700, (approx. number of players)

THE average player has lost $738,571

The average player loses $12, 857 per day!

(9,000,000/700)
I bet if most players just did that simple math in their head....They would want a deal LIKE RIGHT NOW.

Could you imagine, as simple person like us (middle class) losing 12 grand a day in wages.....

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:25 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by TorMenT View Post
So is anything supposed to happen today?
nope

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:27 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
All they had to do was say No thanks, and they could have went from there. Instead Fehr takes 8 hours to make another proposal while they sit and wait, and then it went against everything they asked for.

Pretty easy to see why the NHL would be upset.
And then held a press conference saying that the two side are pretty much on top of one another and that there should be an end to this lockout soon. Bettman and Daly were clearly pissed off by the production Fehr put on and they lost their cool at the presser because of it.

They should have said 'no' but can go over these points some more and then throw out their ideas during discussion. Not make the owners wait for hours on end when you put together a proposal that they didn't ask nor want from you. I guess the owners are happy they didn't stick around for that proposal.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:28 PM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch

Bruce Garrioch @SunGarrioch
Alfredsson on vote: “It can happen. I hope it doesn’t because I don’t think most of the players feel there is a deal for us right now."


ughhh, that's the whole point of a vote. You vote to find out if the majority of the players think the deal is fair. If they do then there IS a deal for you.


Translation: I don't think the majority of players agree with me.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:29 PM
  #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Yes, but the long term deal are in place to lower the cap hit of the big money players. The caps savings then go to...
Most teams have a pretty high budget relative to the cap. Any $'s that aren't paid to stars at the end of their careers are available to the "mid-tier" players who value then increases. If the Hawks & Wings have $'s available because guys like Hossa, Zetterburg & Fransen don't have $5-6M cap hits in 3-4 years when they're really producing like $3M players - those $'s are likely to be spent on other available players to try and improve the team. That means that there is more available for the middle class guys (Bolland or Helm or the equivelent). Just my thought.

I'm sure you could make a case that the owners would just pocket the money, but it seems like for most teams that those $'s would be available for other players.

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12-07-2012, 12:29 PM
  #561
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I'm not a fan of Fehr and his tactics but I've lost what little respect I had for Bettman and the owners after last night's fiasco!
Bettman up on stage shaking his head like a petulant child and shouting that everything is now off of the table. And the four owners having pre-prepared statements that sounded like they were written by their high priced PR consultant.

The more I watch this play out it seems like the NHL's objective is to break the union. They sense blood and are moving in for the kill. The last few days seem to have been a mostly PR move to try to convince the public that they are serious about getting this resolved. In the end I think the NHL's goal is to move to an NFL model where players contracts are not guaranteed. Unfortunately for the players they are the ones who ultimately lose in any scenario. Their best financial option is to take what they can get now and defer the loss of guaranteed contracts by signing a 10 year deal. I know that they think that they need to take a stand or risk getting beat up on the next deal but I don't see this playing out in their favour.

For the owners statements to say that they care about the fans makes me want to throw up.

End of rant.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:29 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
And then held a press conference saying that the two side are pretty much on top of one another and that there should be an end to this lockout soon. Bettman and Daly were clearly pissed off by the production Fehr put on and they lost their cool at the presser because of it.

They should have said 'no' but can go over these points some more and then throw out their ideas during discussion. Not make the owners wait for hours on end when you put together a proposal that they didn't ask nor want from you. I guess the owners are happy they didn't stick around for that proposal.
Then we get a bit spiel about how upset the players were that Bettman wasn't there. Why would they be upset if it was pretty clear all they wanted was a yes or no?

This entire strategy from the PA is confusing.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
And then held a press conference saying that the two side are pretty much on top of one another and that there should be an end to this lockout soon. Bettman and Daly were clearly pissed off by the production Fehr put on and they lost their cool at the presser because of it.

They should have said 'no' but can go over these points some more and then throw out their ideas during discussion. Not make the owners wait for hours on end when you put together a proposal that they didn't ask nor want from you. I guess the owners are happy they didn't stick around for that proposal.
The worst part is the players did this to the section of owners that wanted to get a deal done.

The moderate owners....

You can bet Jacobs is leaning over to moderates/dove owners now saying "I told you so" "Now it's my turn to crush this Union".

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorMenT View Post
So is anything supposed to happen today?
yes owners and players flying back home...( the ones that are still in NYC )

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12-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorMenT View Post
So is anything supposed to happen today?
No. Except for................

Behind closed doors it's another Fehr brother brainwashing session. The sheep are lined up and ready to listen.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #566
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My posts have been in favor of league so far, but NHL has been unreasonable at times.

Especially the 5 year term on contract. Let's face it. This term makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER! Nor does low variance of 5%. And there is reason for that. There are teams in NHL that have non-financial advantages (financial as in salary they can afford to pay), and other teams need to have that freedom to use money to bring parity.

For example, Florida has tax cuts, US in general has lower taxes, Winnipeg has disadvantage that it is a smaller town and hence FA won't prefer it as much as say, Vancouver. Some cities have warmer weather etc. Some teams are simply teams that are guaranteed to make playoffs. All of these parameters affect where he is going to sign.

In those conditions, its only fair that contract length isn't limited to 5 years. Besides, its an obvious conclusion that shorter lengths mean higher cap hit. Since GM will still try to pay more and more to grab a player, that means less and less cap space available for depth players. And all players have to be accounted for when "collective" bargaining. You can't leave out smaller players because they don't play important role. It's simply because on most nights, a team IS expected to dress 18 skaters.

There are 23 teams in NHL that have players with contracts greater than 5 years. So, it's not like owners don't want to lure players with those big fat contracts (except for Dallas, Phoenix, St.Louis, Florida, Colorado, Anaheim, San Jose). Now, by suddenly putting a 5 year limit, they are contradicting themselves.

[TBC]

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12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getyourselfsomerest View Post
https://twitter.com/SunGarrioch

Bruce Garrioch @SunGarrioch
Alfredsson on vote: “It can happen. I hope it doesn’t because I don’t think most of the players feel there is a deal for us right now."


ughhh, that's the whole point of a vote. You vote to find out if the majority of the players think the deal is fair. If they do then there IS a deal for you.

That doesn't make any sense Alfie. If most players don't feel that it's a fair deal, then they won't vote the proposal to pass. It sounds like you and others don't want a vote because you're afraid that the proposal will pass and it's a proposal that YOU don't like. It's astonishing to me that the players continue to talk about 'I wonder what the other 22 owners think but they can't talk because they'll get fined'. Well, I wonder what ALL 700 players think but they can't vote because Fehr and the executive committee won't let them'. You see how it works both ways boys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Lundqvist in a Swedish radio interview said it's embarrassing that a deal isn't done yet considering how close the sides are and that both parties are to blame for a deal isn't done.
Well come back from Sweden and try to talk some sense into both sides! Hank has been reliably well spoken throughout the process. Does that mean he really is perfect?

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12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
My point is that they're fighting for future players, they're fighting for the middle class...they're supposedly fighting for all the players that these issues either don't affect at all or not by much (perhaps not enough to justify the losses those players are taking so that these big guys can 'fight' for them). But their reasoning is conflicting. You can't say that you're fighting for the rights of future players when you balk at an idea that would actually create a more fair opportunity for future players because they won't get screwed over in their contracts because of the amount of back diving contracts that are going on now with current players.

You can't say you're fighting for the middle class because otherwise the caphit would be too high to sign middle class players when another obvious reasons for these long contracts is for players to gain financial security long term while making all of their money up front 'just in case'.
You're putting back diving deals and anything longer than 5 years in the same category, they are two separate issues. The back diving would be taken care of by the variance. Long term deals offer more security, so players take less money per on longer term deals, that shares the wealth with the "middle class". Not every deal longer than 5 years is cap circumventing.

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12-07-2012, 12:31 PM
  #569
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James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
Like last time... RT @drosennhl: Bettman said in his press conference that make-whole provision is now off the table in its entirety.

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/277100179168055296

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12-07-2012, 12:32 PM
  #570
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If Alfie thinks that the majority of the union is behind Fehr, what is wrong with that? What do we know?

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12-07-2012, 12:32 PM
  #571
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12-07-2012, 12:32 PM
  #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Then we get a bit spiel about how upset the players were that Bettman wasn't there. Why would they be upset if it was pretty clear all they wanted was a yes or no?

This entire strategy from the PA is confusing.
They were upset because they wanted to negotiate. Bettman said its a yes or no. Not a bargaining session...

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:34 PM
  #573
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Lets just do it ...

- 10 year CBA (opt out after year 8)
- 50-50 revenue split
- $300 million make whole
- 7 year contract limit, 10% variance year to year, 5% for a guy signing with a different team

Sign this and lets just start the freaking season on Dec. 21st.

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12-07-2012, 12:34 PM
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
If make whole was so important to them, maybe they should have take the October deal, you know, when they hadn't lost 517 million in wages. ****ing idiots. You've already lost more in a couple of lost months than your make whole will play you during the duration of the entire CBA. 517>>>>>>>300
Exactly. Did Fehr tell the players, hey lets hold off as long as we need to because we will get a better deal and you, the player, will be better off financially? As an adviser, he had to lay out the math for them, right? The owners know to the day how much revenue and income they loose, they did the math....

I do not see a way that this has a positive outcome for the players financially and it only gets worse by the day. The owners could have a good outcome still, and the lawyers could have a great outcome if the NHLPA disclaims interest, players are screwed, and stuck with a 2 million a year average salary.....

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12-07-2012, 12:35 PM
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Lets just do it ...

- 10 year CBA (opt out after year 8)
- 50-50 revenue split
- $300 million make whole
- 7 year contract limit, 10% variance year to year, 5% for a guy signing with a different team

Sign this and lets just start the freaking season on Dec. 21st.
Scottie Upshall does not agree to your terms.

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