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2013 NHL Draft Prospects I

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12-01-2012, 04:41 PM
  #201
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I did say "potential"



blah blah blah blah blah

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12-02-2012, 10:20 PM
  #202
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Geez, Pulock has a bomb of a shot.

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12-02-2012, 10:24 PM
  #203
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Geez, Pulock has a bomb of a shot.
Clocked at 102 mph.

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12-05-2012, 09:54 PM
  #204
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Button's December Rankings


TP might be interested to know that Fasching is sitting in the third round of Button's rankings.

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12-06-2012, 01:31 PM
  #205
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besides jones, how would adding ryan pulock to the wild blue line look? say if the wild get another pick right around 10. that sure would solidify our overall depth

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12-06-2012, 01:43 PM
  #206
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besides jones, how would adding ryan pulock to the wild blue line look? say if the wild get another pick right around 10. that sure would solidify our overall depth
Pulock is really solid, pretty much everyone but Button has him as the second best D man in the draft. I'd love to have him on the team.

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12-06-2012, 01:47 PM
  #207
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besides jones, how would adding ryan pulock to the wild blue line look? say if the wild get another pick right around 10. that sure would solidify our overall depth
That would be great. It would definitely get some offense going off the back-end. But him being a right hand shot and offensive minded, he makes Spurgeon or Dumba expendable. I don't think we'd want 3 right handed shots on D with a somewhat similar skillset.

Personally, I'm really high on the Russians right now. Nikita Zadorov would be a shut-down defender that no one wants to mess with and Valeri Nichushkin (I'll give Generic User credit for turning me onto this one) is a natural goal-scorer, something we need.

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12-06-2012, 02:26 PM
  #208
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Pulock is really solid, pretty much everyone but Button has him as the second best D man in the draft. I'd love to have him on the team.
While Pulock is a highly rated D prospect, he's not the second best D-man in the draft according to very many. In my quick look so far, only THW has him ranked there. FC has Ristolainen ahead of him. ISS has Ristolainen and Nurse ahead of him. Central scouting is still separated by league (and would be separate by NA/EU anyway) but has him behind Shinkaruk which implies Nurse or Ristolainen could potentially be ahead of him. Button might be the only one with Morrissey and Zadorov ahead of him, but it seems more people have Ristolainen ahead of Pulock than the other way around.

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12-06-2012, 02:34 PM
  #209
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That would be great. It would definitely get some offense going off the back-end. But him being a right hand shot and offensive minded, he makes Spurgeon or Dumba expendable. I don't think we'd want 3 right handed shots on D with a somewhat similar skillset.

Personally, I'm really high on the Russians right now. Nikita Zadorov would be a shut-down defender that no one wants to mess with and Valeri Nichushkin (I'll give Generic User credit for turning me onto this one) is a natural goal-scorer, something we need.
If we get a right handed D in the first, I'd rather it be a guy with size at least comparable to Ristolainen's. I haven't had a chance to see him play, so I don't know if he uses that size though. I don't think it's fair to group Dumba and Spurgeon into the "similar skillset" sort of bracket though. Spurgeon is very much a finesse type defenseman, and more of a puck mover than a puck rusher. Dumba is much more physical, and more apt to carry the puck than anyone currently in our system. Where we start getting redundant is with Kampfer and Prosser as compared to Spurgeon.

An interesting thing to note is that where left handers are relatively common on either side of a pairing, right handers are almost exclusively found on the right. So far, it seems the team has been positioning Brodin to play on the right. That's what he did most (if not all) of last season in Sweden. With Scandella in Houston that's where Brodin has been as well. Is that a long term projection, and if so, does that mean we're really getting overstocked on the right side of the blue line?

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12-06-2012, 02:37 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
Is that a long term projection, and if so, does that mean we're really getting overstocked on the right side of the blue line?
I think being overstocked on the right side of the blue line is like overstocked on goaltending. You can never have too much.

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12-06-2012, 02:51 PM
  #211
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Speaking of Ristolainen, he's been dropping recently, and for a good reason. He hasn't been exactly impressive in FEL. Of course he is still young and playing tough minutes on a struggling TPS team.

If he's there late in the 1st or early in the 2nd, I wouldn't be against trading to grab him. He's got some real talent, a good size and a decent shot to go with it. That being said, he shoots right, too, and we already have Spurgeon, Gilbert and Dumba who are rights as well.

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12-06-2012, 02:56 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
While Pulock is a highly rated D prospect, he's not the second best D-man in the draft according to very many. In my quick look so far, only THW has him ranked there. FC has Ristolainen ahead of him. ISS has Ristolainen and Nurse ahead of him. Central scouting is still separated by league (and would be separate by NA/EU anyway) but has him behind Shinkaruk which implies Nurse or Ristolainen could potentially be ahead of him. Button might be the only one with Morrissey and Zadorov ahead of him, but it seems more people have Ristolainen ahead of Pulock than the other way around.
Forgot about Risto

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12-06-2012, 02:57 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Victorious Secret View Post
I think being overstocked on the right side of the blue line is like overstocked on goaltending. You can never have too much.
I've always disagreed with that notion on goaltending because it's all based on "accounting cost" rather than "economic cost." You can have too much because people don't factor in that by picking up the prospects there, you decided not to pick up other prospects elsewhere. Obviously we'll have Suter on the left side of the blue line for a long time, but other than him we're really sitting on Scandella, and that's it (assuming here that Brodin is kept on the right). Our left handed defensemen other than Suter/Scandella/Brodin are:

Falk
Stoner
Seeler
Genoway
Cuma
Connelly
Medvec
Jobke

That's some shaky depth with really only one player with a possible top-4 future.

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12-06-2012, 02:58 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
Speaking of Ristolainen, he's been dropping recently, and for a good reason. He hasn't been exactly impressive in FEL. Of course he is still young and playing tough minutes on a struggling TPS team.

If he's there late in the 1st or early in the 2nd, I wouldn't be against trading to grab him. He's got some real talent, a good size and a decent shot to go with it. That being said, he shoots right, too, and we already have Spurgeon, Gilbert and Dumba who are rights as well.
Forgot to mention that he's actually got rather soft hands and his shot is better than I remembered it to be.

I think he projects as a potential top-4 D-man who can be used on PP. His size is what makes him an interesting prospect.

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12-06-2012, 04:02 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by squidz View Post
I've always disagreed with that notion on goaltending because it's all based on "accounting cost" rather than "economic cost." You can have too much because people don't factor in that by picking up the prospects there, you decided not to pick up other prospects elsewhere. Obviously we'll have Suter on the left side of the blue line for a long time, but other than him we're really sitting on Scandella, and that's it (assuming here that Brodin is kept on the right). Our left handed defensemen other than Suter/Scandella/Brodin are:

Falk
Stoner
Seeler
Genoway
Cuma
Connelly
Medvec
Jobke

That's some shaky depth with really only one player with a possible top-4 future.
Good point. I think it throws people off that Brodin is a lefty, so he seems to get penciled in on the left side. Another legit NHL, top4 LHD wouldn't hurt.

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12-06-2012, 06:50 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Maxwell Goldshadow View Post
Forgot to mention that he's actually got rather soft hands and his shot is better than I remembered it to be.

I think he projects as a potential top-4 D-man who can be used on PP. His size is what makes him an interesting prospect.
Not to mention he can move very well, and is able to rush the puck up the ice, and plays with physicality as well.

He brings the total package, but he might not be as polished as Jones is.

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12-07-2012, 12:35 AM
  #217
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Not to mention he can move very well, and is able to rush the puck up the ice, and plays with physicality as well.

He brings the total package, but he might not be as polished as Jones is.
How do you see the defenseman prospects being ranked at the moment?

And how do you see Monohan being affected by his suspension?

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12-07-2012, 01:18 AM
  #218
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I've always disagreed with that notion on goaltending because it's all based on "accounting cost" rather than "economic cost." You can have too much because people don't factor in that by picking up the prospects there, you decided not to pick up other prospects elsewhere. Obviously we'll have Suter on the left side of the blue line for a long time, but other than him we're really sitting on Scandella, and that's it (assuming here that Brodin is kept on the right). Our left handed defensemen other than Suter/Scandella/Brodin are:

Falk
Stoner
Seeler
Genoway
Cuma
Connelly
Medvec
Jobke

That's some shaky depth with really only one player with a possible top-4 future.
But since we've been able to manufacture these goalie prospects in the later rounds (Hackett #77, Kuemper r. 6 #161, Gustafsson r. 6 #159), I don't think we have sacrificed prospects elsewhere. Its just the unfortunate reality that we haven't been able to groom our prospects correctly. Which has turned around lately. If you are going to blame them for taking too many goaltenders, then you have to also blame them for taking too many offensive players. We're just seeing the bottoming out of the 09-11 draft years. 2009: 1 of 8 draft picks was a D. Nick Leddy. 2010: 0 of 6. 2011: 2-6, Brodin and Seeler. This last year GMCF drafted 3 defensemen. And since defensive prospects take longer to develop, we're still seeing the empty harvest of DR come to fruition.

I don't think Vancouver minds having Luongo and Schneider, even if they spend a little more to have one around to assess their situation. Not to mention Eddie Lack. With a stream of talent they can trade one away to fill holes elsewhere. If they needed a LH LD as bad as we do, they sure as heck could fill that hole. Our goalie depth also took a blow last week with Josh Hardings M.S.. He certainly has the talent, but no one else is going to want to trade for him. He sure is talented, but I don't see him playing too many games, and especially not with such talented goalies coming up.

As for that list, I see Falk and Stoner as everyday 3rd pairings, just not together. Cuma still has the talent, just whether he has the moxy to make it, but jury is out on top 4. The people that have seen Seeler in person are pretty high on him, so that has me intrigued. But I don't think we'll see him until 15-16. As for the others, I see nothing more than AHLers. If they want to prove me wrong, great.

Nikita Zadorov or Darnell Nurse would be great pick ups. I just don't see us passing up on the offensive talent that is in the draft if we have a high draft slot. If we're in the 13-20 range I could see us taking them.

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12-07-2012, 12:02 PM
  #219
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But since we've been able to manufacture these goalie prospects in the later rounds (Hackett #77, Kuemper r. 6 #161, Gustafsson r. 6 #159), I don't think we have sacrificed prospects elsewhere. Its just the unfortunate reality that we haven't been able to groom our prospects correctly. Which has turned around lately. If you are going to blame them for taking too many goaltenders, then you have to also blame them for taking too many offensive players. We're just seeing the bottoming out of the 09-11 draft years. 2009: 1 of 8 draft picks was a D. Nick Leddy. 2010: 0 of 6. 2011: 2-6, Brodin and Seeler. This last year GMCF drafted 3 defensemen. And since defensive prospects take longer to develop, we're still seeing the empty harvest of DR come to fruition.

I don't think Vancouver minds having Luongo and Schneider, even if they spend a little more to have one around to assess their situation. Not to mention Eddie Lack. With a stream of talent they can trade one away to fill holes elsewhere. If they needed a LH LD as bad as we do, they sure as heck could fill that hole. Our goalie depth also took a blow last week with Josh Hardings M.S.. He certainly has the talent, but no one else is going to want to trade for him. He sure is talented, but I don't see him playing too many games, and especially not with such talented goalies coming up.

As for that list, I see Falk and Stoner as everyday 3rd pairings, just not together. Cuma still has the talent, just whether he has the moxy to make it, but jury is out on top 4. The people that have seen Seeler in person are pretty high on him, so that has me intrigued. But I don't think we'll see him until 15-16. As for the others, I see nothing more than AHLers. If they want to prove me wrong, great.

Nikita Zadorov or Darnell Nurse would be great pick ups. I just don't see us passing up on the offensive talent that is in the draft if we have a high draft slot. If we're in the 13-20 range I could see us taking them.
Look what happened in the 2012 draft. Fletcher, who has well documented goal to draft a goalie in a late round in every single draft chose not to draft one because we had "enough." Maybe we didn't have "too many" goalies, but we certainly have enough for at least a year or two.

But back to something I said (I think it was in this thread) a few months ago, different parts of the first round have different rules. If you're picking top 5, and maybe even top 10, you're picking based upon who is on the board, not your own needs (except insofar as breaking "ties" of close prospects). If MacKinnon is absolutely a better prospect than Jones, you pick MacKinnon, even if you really could use a defenseman instead. The Oilers did the right thing last year. They believed that Yakupov was better than Murray, so they picked him, despite their desperate need for a player like Murray on their blue line.

But when you get to the middle portion of the draft, it's no longer as much about the player as it is the needs of your team. In general, the difference between the guy picked 12th and the guy picked 16th isn't really much. In the middle third of the draft, you really should be picking for team need. If we have a pick in the 11-20 range (or possibly as far out as 6-23), we really need to either be picking a defenseman or a shoot first mentality winger (a real sizable offensive center would work as well but ehhhhhh). Maybe Grigorenko and Forsberg were better prospects than Koekkoek, but Tampa desperately needed help along the blue line (I mean, they overpaid Carle, gave Brian Lee a raise, have MAB skating regular shifts, and even signed Salo to be on IR for them). So Tampa went with the D-man in that range, as they should.

Then there's the end of the round. This is primarily the time for picking up players who your board has high but managed to slip through everyone else's. We know Calgary picked Jankowski in that situation (they were going to pick him at 14, but traded down to get an extra second rounder). In 2011 with the Phillips pick, you better believe the Wild had him ranked top 20, but he slipped to them. With how draft boards tend to look by the end of the round, most of the picks in that range end up being "value" picks of your highest remaining player.

To turn this back to our situation, the Wild didn't end up overdrafting offensive players. Our prospect strength is primarily built upon the 2nd round of 2010 and the Burns trade. When Granlund was picked, we had nothing in the pool. Then we picked Zucker, Larsson, and Bulmer in the second. When 2011 rolled around, we picked up Brodin to work on the blue line. The Burns trade brought us Coyle and a pick where we pretty much had to pick Phillips. We spent two picks to grab Lucia because he somehow was still there. The same story goes for Seeler, as they admitted they would have picked him in the fourth or perhaps even third round. That takes us to 2012. Dumba was in the BPA range at the top of the draft, and addressed our blue line issues. Bussieres addressed something we lack in our system as a boom/bust shooter. We tossed a 6th rounder on another boom/bust shooter.

We didn't overdraft at any position. We drafted right to the limit for a few (goalie, RHD, maybe pass first top 6 forward) but mostly we just neglected defensemen on the left side of the blue line. Prior to this point, that had been a strength of the team, but with all the improvement elsewhere, and a very important bust, it became the weakness. If Cuma had panned out, or Falk turned in only "good Falk" performances, or Stoner proved he could stay healthy, I might not be so worried about the position, but as it stands, all but one of our prospects worth mentioning who play on the left side of the blue line are graduated. Seeler is the only remaining name of any merit. Our second best prospect there is Cuma then...Jobke probably?

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12-07-2012, 12:24 PM
  #220
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Nikita Zadorov or Darnell Nurse would be great pick ups. I just don't see us passing up on the offensive talent that is in the draft if we have a high draft slot. If we're in the 13-20 range I could see us taking them.
Since my post started getting into waaaaaaaaaay too long territory, I just clicked submit. To respond directly to this:

Looking at FC's rankings, if we're picking top 3, we have to pick based on the rankings. You can't not pick MacKinnon, even though he's not a "generational" talent, he's certainly worthy of the first overall title. Jones would be perfect for us at any point in the draft (behind MacKinnon). Barkov just sounds like a "Wild type prospect" to me, and judging from his goal totals he's not afraid to shoot.

Getting past those top 3, Monahan probably would be a good pick at 4. He certainly puts the puck in the net often enough in the OHL, but he is rumored to be more of a passer than a shooter, and that's something we need to get away from with our high picks. But he does have good size for his role, and as a '94 (with 3 seasons served) only needs one more season in the CHL before he's AHL eligible. I know next to nothing about Lindholm so I can't comment on him.

Outside of the top 5, things become even less clear. Drouin is putting up almost 2 PPG right now, how do you not pick that? But he's playing with MacKinnon. I mean, Clutterbuck went 1.25 PPG playing with Tavares. There's enough question marks around Drouin that you could justify passing on him, even if that ends up being a mistake. Ristolainen slots in next, two-way guy with size, but he's a righty. I think his draft projection is going to mimic Adam Larsson's and he'll be taken significantly later than projected. Shinkaruk has some size concerns (Wait, FC has him as 6' now? Maybe there aren't size concerns), but otherwise seems to fit our needs perfectly. Pulock I've put my opinion in already. Nichushkin is Russian, and I'll go with TP's position on that "I'll believe we'll draft a Russian some time after we draft a Russian."

That rounds out the current top 10 projection. I don't think there's a spot in there where we don't draft to fill one of our two big needs, shooting winger or left side defenseman.

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12-07-2012, 02:00 PM
  #221
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Barkov just sounds like a "Wild type prospect" to me, and judging from his goal totals he's not afraid to shoot.
He's not exactly a shoot first type of a player. He loves to create chances but most of his goals are dirty goals. He finishes up with a great percentage tho. His greatest strength is absolutely his two-way game.

Artturi Lehkonen on the other hand...

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12-07-2012, 02:11 PM
  #222
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Barkov sounds like a M. Koivu-esque player.

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12-07-2012, 02:15 PM
  #223
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Barkov sounds like a M. Koivu-esque player.
Barkov has more offense on him thought. I think the Anze Kopitar comparision fits him well. Either way if he turns out to be anything like a two way beast and a leader like Koivu i will be happy

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12-07-2012, 04:12 PM
  #224
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He's not exactly a shoot first type of a player. He loves to create chances but most of his goals are dirty goals. He finishes up with a great percentage tho. His greatest strength is absolutely his two-way game.

Artturi Lehkonen on the other hand...
Lehkonen is a boom/bust type of player, he could easily be worthy of a top-10 pick if not for his size.

I would love if we managed to grab all of the Finns projected to go in the 1st (Barkov, Ristolainen, Lehkonen). Barkov will require a top-3 pick, but we should be able to grab Ristolainen around #20 and Lehkonen around #25 if we're lucky.

Then again, we'd have to give up too many assets for those I'm afraid.

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12-07-2012, 04:46 PM
  #225
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Since my post started getting into waaaaaaaaaay too long territory, I just clicked submit. To respond directly to this:

Looking at FC's rankings, if we're picking top 3, we have to pick based on the rankings. You can't not pick MacKinnon, even though he's not a "generational" talent, he's certainly worthy of the first overall title. Jones would be perfect for us at any point in the draft (behind MacKinnon). Barkov just sounds like a "Wild type prospect" to me, and judging from his goal totals he's not afraid to shoot.

Getting past those top 3, Monahan probably would be a good pick at 4. He certainly puts the puck in the net often enough in the OHL, but he is rumored to be more of a passer than a shooter, and that's something we need to get away from with our high picks. But he does have good size for his role, and as a '94 (with 3 seasons served) only needs one more season in the CHL before he's AHL eligible. I know next to nothing about Lindholm so I can't comment on him.

Outside of the top 5, things become even less clear. Drouin is putting up almost 2 PPG right now, how do you not pick that? But he's playing with MacKinnon. I mean, Clutterbuck went 1.25 PPG playing with Tavares. There's enough question marks around Drouin that you could justify passing on him, even if that ends up being a mistake. Ristolainen slots in next, two-way guy with size, but he's a righty. I think his draft projection is going to mimic Adam Larsson's and he'll be taken significantly later than projected. Shinkaruk has some size concerns (Wait, FC has him as 6' now? Maybe there aren't size concerns), but otherwise seems to fit our needs perfectly. Pulock I've put my opinion in already. Nichushkin is Russian, and I'll go with TP's position on that "I'll believe we'll draft a Russian some time after we draft a Russian."

That rounds out the current top 10 projection. I don't think there's a spot in there where we don't draft to fill one of our two big needs, shooting winger or left side defenseman.
I think it should be noted that Craig Button has Ristolainen at 23 on his most recent LIST. He saw Ristolainen in person 2 weeks ago, I believe.

Nichushkin is the best pure winger that is high on the board. The only pure winger above him is Drouin, and like you said, he has inflated stats from playing with a great player. He has had a huge jump in his draft status, and a good portion of it can be attributed to MacKinnon. His game is still questionable. And we have to break the mold of Russians sometime, provided we are in position to do so.

We could draft a shoot-first center like Monahan and Shinkaruk and proceed to put them on a wing, which is a viable option since we have so many centers now anyways, Phillips, Granlund, Larsson. And we've already switched Coyle to be a winger. As for as Shinkaruk's size is concerned. Most sites have him at 5'11" and 175 pounds or so. Could definitely be worse.

If we get a top 3 pick, obviously we pick BPA. Which should be true in BPA up to about 10. This is a pretty deep draft. And its also best not to forget the Barkov is playing in a men's league and is putting up MiG like numbers. And he started playing in the men's league earlier than Granlund.

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