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2012-13 CBA Discussion Thread *NHL/NHLPA Please do Something!!*

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Old
12-07-2012, 10:24 AM
  #851
Islanders1932
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Boycott the NHL (Nassau Coliseum Strike)

I know there is a lockout thread, but this is a separate idea, however mods if you feel this is not appropriate, please move into the lockout thread.

I am pissed. Beyond pissed. I am sure I am not the only one out there. The NHL and players have basically said the fans don't matter. I know that many people will not be able to stay away from the NHL when it returns, especially us die hards, however, we do not have to support the NHL.

My proposal, when the NHL returns:

1. Do not attend a single game, do not buy any merchandise.

2. Show up to the coliseum home opener (and more) with me just to sit in the parking lot with angry signs (boycotting, on strike, fire bettman, fire fehr, fans matter, etc...)

3. Since I know we will still want to watch the game, we will go down to Bar Social and watch the game there. (Instead of supporting the NHL, we support a local business).

This idea allows us die hards to watch the games still (they will be on in bars anyway, so at least we aren't turning on our tvs at home), it allows us not to support the NHL, and allows us to show our frustration and maybe even convince some people who were going to attend the game to join us. I know this idea most likely cannot be done for each game, but I say we try to make it happen as much as possible. Just get to the coliseum early to avoid paying for parking.

Who is in? Any additional thoughts?

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Old
12-07-2012, 10:33 AM
  #852
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If any season ticket holders decide to do this you should probably give away your seats for free (to me for example).

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Old
12-07-2012, 10:37 AM
  #853
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Boycotts are for injustices, not for annoyances. Nobody's rights are being trampled upon. Moreover, boycotts make zero sense to confront parties who are having a disagreement. They're for confronting parties who are partaking in or silently abetting injustices, and have the power to make a change. See the Montgomery Bus Boycott. See the Coca Cola, South Africa, apartheid-related boycott.

Organizing a boycott against the NHL over their internal labor dispute is stupid. There's no other word for it.

If you're fed up and don't want to buy tickets, don't. That's called voting with your feet. Boycotts, on the other hand, require organization and discipline. And that has no place in this instance. None at all.

Anyone who demonstrates at an arena, for example, cajoling people not to go in is a complete crank and busybody. They should get a life.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
12-07-2012, 10:58 AM
  #854
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We are about a month away of having a deal or no season at all. At least we have an answer and can stop worrying about it.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:10 AM
  #855
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Pointless. People don't seem to realize this.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:17 AM
  #856
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"some men just want to watch the world burn" would be a pretty appropriate summation of this lockout i would think.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:37 AM
  #857
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I am just as fed up as you this whole things is absolutely insane. I have thought of the same idea but to be honest the more I thought about it I know I really couldn't go through with it. The second hockey is back I'm going to be so pumped I'm probably going to look the other way about this whole lock out, but that's just me. The more I thought about it and trust me it infuriates me, Bettman was right the fans will be back, me in this instance will be. It might change if they cancel the whole season but as of now if they start up in a couple weeks or a month I'll be in the crowd come opening night.

I wouldn't be paying attention to all this CBA crap just to tell them piss off when they finally come through with the resolution we all want. This whole thing kind of symbolizes the Isles season any way: Lots of hope followed by the rug being pulled out from under us.

SLAPSHOT is right though.. It is pretty pointless cause even if it works and people join up all it does is affect Charles Wang slightly. He'll still probably end up selling out opening night and I really don't think Wang has any real swaying power with the Board of Governors. He hasn't been involved with any of the CBA negotiations so its not like we'd be sending him a message. It sucks but it's the truth.

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12-07-2012, 12:09 PM
  #858
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Organizing a boycott against the NHL over their internal labor dispute is stupid. There's no other word for it.

If you're fed up and don't want to buy tickets, don't. That's called voting with your feet. Boycotts, on the other hand, require organization and discipline. And that has no place in this instance. None at all.

Anyone who demonstrates at an arena, for example, cajoling people not to go in is a complete crank and busybody. They should get a life.
Agree with every word.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:20 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
1. Do not attend a single game, do not buy any merchandise.

2. Show up to the coliseum home opener (and more) with me just to sit in the parking lot with angry signs (boycotting, on strike, fire bettman, fire fehr, fans matter, etc...)

3. Since I know we will still want to watch the game, we will go down to Bar Social and watch the game there. (Instead of supporting the NHL, we support a local business).
Wait.. let me get this straight...

Don't go to games, don't buy any merchandise, and don't support the Isles or the NHL?

Haven't people on Long Island basically been doing this for the past 10 years?

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:38 PM
  #860
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Yeah I guess you guys are right, lets just tell the NHL that they can do this whenever they want and have no consequences. If we as fans don't unite and take a stand this will happen every time a new CBA needs to be discussed. Its ridiculous.

I will not be buying any this year/next year and I hope that there are others out there like me. I am a die hard Islanders fan and this will be the toughest thing in the world for me to do, but I am standing up for our future to try to end this from happening again. If ticket sales drop, it hurts the NHL and they will think twice about going into a lockout. If the fans come back, its just proof that they can do this whenever they want.

Sure it would take a league wide group for this to have an effect, but it needs to start somewhere.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:43 PM
  #861
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
Yeah I guess you guys are right, lets just tell the NHL that they can do this whenever they want and have no consequences. If we as fans don't unite and take a stand this will happen every time a new CBA needs to be discussed. Its ridiculous.

I will not be buying any this year/next year and I hope that there are others out there like me. I am a die hard Islanders fan and this will be the toughest thing in the world for me to do, but I am standing up for our future to try to end this from happening again. If ticket sales drop, it hurts the NHL and they will think twice about going into a lockout. If the fans come back, its just proof that they can do this whenever they want.
Or you could do what I am going to do... not buy tickets from the Islanders but instead off stubhub. This way, the tickets are paid for already. I am giving money to the person I bought the tickets from instead of giving it to the league. Just don't buy any food/merchandise once inside of course.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:55 PM
  #862
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Originally Posted by Twine Seeking Missle View Post
Or you could do what I am going to do... not buy tickets from the Islanders but instead off stubhub. This way, the tickets are paid for already. I am giving money to the person I bought the tickets from instead of giving it to the league. Just don't buy any food/merchandise once inside of course.
That is an idea as well.

Forbes says fans are the reason for the lockout: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...r-nhl-lockout/

Quote:
Among the four major team sports in North America, hockey is by far the most dependent on ticket revenue. During the 2010-11 season, the typical NHL team relied on gate receipts for half of their revenue. Last year the average team in the NFL, which has the richest national television deals (divided equally among all teams), got less than 25% of its revenue from ticket sales. The comparable figures in the NBA and MLB are 33% and 25%, respectively.
A decline in ticket sales hurts the NHL extremely since that is where half their revenue comes from.

Quote:
This means by simply staying away from the contests hockey fans can extract a much bigger pound of flesh than can supporters of the other three sports. It doesn’t matter if you turn off your television sets. The league’s new 10-year, $2 billion deal with NBC is such a small piece of the overall revenue pie that it is virtually inconsequential.
So watch the games, just do not attend them!

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:03 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
Yeah I guess you guys are right, lets just tell the NHL that they can do this whenever they want and have no consequences. If we as fans don't unite and take a stand this will happen every time a new CBA needs to be discussed. Its ridiculous.
You couldn't be more wrong.

If demand decreases, revenues and salaries will get reduced, but the overall landscape of the CBA negotiations will remain the same. If anything, a smaller revenue pie will make future fights over pieces of that shrinking pie (i.e. the CBA) even more contentious. See Hostess, who made pies.

Face it. None of us has any power over the labor impasse. The only thing that will fix it in the long term is trust and goodwill between the parties.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:11 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Twine Seeking Missle View Post
Or you could do what I am going to do... not buy tickets from the Islanders but instead off stubhub. This way, the tickets are paid for already. I am giving money to the person I bought the tickets from instead of giving it to the league. Just don't buy any food/merchandise once inside of course.
AKA having your cake and eating it too.

Your strategy has an impact (fails to increase demand) only if your ticket purchases substitute for box office purchases. Why would that happen? If the Islanders continue to suck. If they don't suck, you'll just be increasing demand just as if you went to the box office. Once the value for tickets at stubhub is close to box-office, box-office sales will increase.

Suppose they do suck, and you just end up buying tickets that would be unused. That's pretty likely. As far as the Islanders are concerned, they'll just get the message that they suck and aren't getting any box office demand, not that you're pissed off about the CBA.

I'm all for telling the Islanders that they suck if they suck, so this strategy doesn't bother me. But nobody would interpret the message you're sending as having anything to do with the CBA.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:20 PM
  #865
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Boycotts are for injustices, not for annoyances. Nobody's rights are being trampled upon. Moreover, boycotts make zero sense to confront parties who are having a disagreement. They're for confronting parties who are partaking in or silently abetting injustices, and have the power to make a change. See the Montgomery Bus Boycott. See the Coca Cola, South Africa, apartheid-related boycott.

Organizing a boycott against the NHL over their internal labor dispute is stupid. There's no other word for it.

If you're fed up and don't want to buy tickets, don't. That's called voting with your feet. Boycotts, on the other hand, require organization and discipline. And that has no place in this instance. None at all.

Anyone who demonstrates at an arena, for example, cajoling people not to go in is a complete crank and busybody. They should get a life.

Cheers,

Dan-o
Dan-o and I haven't agreed on much during the lockout, but I whole-heartedly agree with this sentiment.

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:27 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
Yeah I guess you guys are right, lets just tell the NHL that they can do this whenever they want and have no consequences. If we as fans don't unite and take a stand this will happen every time a new CBA needs to be discussed. Its ridiculous.

I will not be buying any this year/next year and I hope that there are others out there like me. I am a die hard Islanders fan and this will be the toughest thing in the world for me to do, but I am standing up for our future to try to end this from happening again. If ticket sales drop, it hurts the NHL and they will think twice about going into a lockout. If the fans come back, its just proof that they can do this whenever they want.

Sure it would take a league wide group for this to have an effect, but it needs to start somewhere.
This is a business. You are a customer. "fans" do not really exist in the equation. There is an oligarchy, it's union/labour force and the customers.

The customers are buying other entertainment products. When the hockey business comes back, most of the customers will too because they are very loyal to the product.

Fans don't need to unite, because there is nothing to unite for. There is no right to this entertainment product. It's owned by 30 dudes, not the "fans". The 30 dudes have calculated that their customers will come back to their product after this disruption.

And, of course, they are correct.

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12-07-2012, 01:33 PM
  #867
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I'm beyond caring at this point. Screw it.

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12-07-2012, 01:39 PM
  #868
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BTW, if anyone wants to cast doubt the Forbes franchise evaluations, the Ozanian article ought to do it as he is responsible for them. This article is the second dumbest thing I've read in Forbes, and that says something.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...r-nhl-lockout/

Quote:
This means by simply staying away from the contests hockey fans can extract a much bigger pound of flesh than can supporters of the other three sports. It doesn’t matter if you turn off your television sets. The league’s new 10-year, $2 billion deal with NBC is such a small piece of the overall revenue pie that it is virtually inconsequential. What does matter is this number: $57, the average ticket price to see a hockey game ($9 more than basketball). Only eight teams out of 30 failed to sell at least 95% of their tickets during the 2011-12 season.
By his reasoning, baseball should have had continuing labor disagreements because fans came back after the strike. But we are going on, what, 19 years of labor peace with more in sight?

It's amazing that this kind of sloppy thinking isn't limited to message boards, but makes it's way to a "respected" magazine. Dumb.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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12-07-2012, 02:04 PM
  #869
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I'm beyond caring at this point. Screw it.
you would not be here if you did not care

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12-07-2012, 02:23 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
AKA having your cake and eating it too.

Your strategy has an impact (fails to increase demand) only if your ticket purchases substitute for box office purchases. Why would that happen? If the Islanders continue to suck. If they don't suck, you'll just be increasing demand just as if you went to the box office. Once the value for tickets at stubhub is close to box-office, box-office sales will increase.

Suppose they do suck, and you just end up buying tickets that would be unused. That's pretty likely. As far as the Islanders are concerned, they'll just get the message that they suck and aren't getting any box office demand, not that you're pissed off about the CBA.

I'm all for telling the Islanders that they suck if they suck, so this strategy doesn't bother me. But nobody would interpret the message you're sending as having anything to do with the CBA.

Cheers,

Dan-o
I wouldn't be trying to send a message. I'm just one person. I realize that trust me. The only reason I would do that is because yes I am ****ing pissed at this whole thing. Pissed enough to not want to give any of my money to the league. But... I'm also weak. I know when it comes back I won't be able to stay away from the games.

So this is my individual way of dealing with things. I realize in the grand scheme it means nothing. The tickets that I buy on Stubhub are already paid for. In the eyes of the NHL, if I am sitting in the seat, they have no idea if I am the original purchaser and quite frankly, they don't care. I just don't want to be the one directly giving the league my money. I will leave that to someone else.

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12-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #871
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Just watched the update on nhl.com by Bettman, Daly and then the Q and A session.

Seems like the owners (whom I side with from what little I know), are mostly concerned with the length of the CBA, length of contracts, and something else which escapes me at the moment.

They also mention that the player salaries (under the current CBA) have risen from $1.7 mill to $2.4 million.

So what exactly is the problem?

I think the players need to realize a few things:

1. You aren't playing a major league sport, its hockey, not MLB or NFL
2. You are already FARRR overpaid for what you are doing (note above salaries)
3. Nobody (mostly) cares about your job or your problems, hockey is barely a blip in the sporting world and the media. ****, sign on the dotted line and get this effing game going.

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12-07-2012, 02:57 PM
  #872
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Originally Posted by Bones45 View Post
Just watched the update on nhl.com by Bettman, Daly and then the Q and A session.

Seems like the owners (whom I side with from what little I know), are mostly concerned with the length of the CBA, length of contracts, and something else which escapes me at the moment.

They also mention that the player salaries (under the current CBA) have risen from $1.7 mill to $2.4 million.

So what exactly is the problem?

I think the players need to realize a few things:

1. You aren't playing a major league sport, its hockey, not MLB or NFL
2. You are already FARRR overpaid for what you are doing (note above salaries)
3. Nobody (mostly) cares about your job or your problems, hockey is barely a blip in the sporting world and the media. ****, sign on the dotted line and get this effing game going.
I agree with this. I've never liked the Bettman bullying and he did such a nice job with his rant yesterday, you can see he's very good at what he does.

Generally, the players seem to have a sense of entitlement and the feelings of "cattle" are taken way to personally (so it seems). They cannot ignore that there are so many unhealthy franchises where there are clearly attendance problems. Realistically, you either CAN sell hockey in these markets, or you CANNOT. If you can, then you'll see gate receipts and HRR and if you can't you either contract (lose jobs) or move to other markets (there aren't any big TV markets left nor hockey markets (with profitable arenas with boxes) and corporate support to make the same money back)

I don't see the player's angle on this. I don't see their end game here. If they're betting that the owners can still move a little further - well, that's a dangerous game.

But I agree with Dan-o (in the earlier post) that something else must be going on here. I don't see enough there that the players can walk away from and certainly not enough to risk "pushing for more" (as some "anonymous" tweets (Ray Ferraro indicated) have come out).

Maybe it's posturing, but at this stage, after having all those owners involved, I'm not so sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
BTW, if anyone wants to cast doubt the Forbes franchise evaluations, the Ozanian article ought to do it as he is responsible for them. This article is the second dumbest thing I've read in Forbes, and that says something.
---
It's amazing that this kind of sloppy thinking isn't limited to message boards, but makes it's way to a "respected" magazine. Dumb.
Wow. Dumb headline (often written by other people than the writer) BUT an even worse conclusion in the article.

I do think there's an important element of info in there, how small TV revenues in hockey are, relative to other sports. Are players in the NHL relatively overpaid compared to revenues (which is what I've felt for a long time, but don't have enough info to determine myself)? Hard to trust any info out there.

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12-07-2012, 07:26 PM
  #873
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Originally Posted by Islanders1932 View Post
I know there is a lockout thread, but this is a separate idea, however mods if you feel this is not appropriate, please move into the lockout thread.

I am pissed. Beyond pissed. I am sure I am not the only one out there. The NHL and players have basically said the fans don't matter. I know that many people will not be able to stay away from the NHL when it returns, especially us die hards, however, we do not have to support the NHL.

My proposal, when the NHL returns:

1. Do not attend a single game, do not buy any merchandise.

2. Show up to the coliseum home opener (and more) with me just to sit in the parking lot with angry signs (boycotting, on strike, fire bettman, fire fehr, fans matter, etc...)

3. Since I know we will still want to watch the game, we will go down to Bar Social and watch the game there. (Instead of supporting the NHL, we support a local business).

This idea allows us die hards to watch the games still (they will be on in bars anyway, so at least we aren't turning on our tvs at home), it allows us not to support the NHL, and allows us to show our frustration and maybe even convince some people who were going to attend the game to join us. I know this idea most likely cannot be done for each game, but I say we try to make it happen as much as possible. Just get to the coliseum early to avoid paying for parking.

Who is in? Any additional thoughts?

This is what I think we should do to Wang for the way he's run the Isles regardless of any lockout....

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12-07-2012, 11:37 PM
  #874
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Wait.. let me get this straight...

Don't go to games, don't buy any merchandise, and don't support the Isles or the NHL?

Haven't people on Long Island basically been doing this for the past 10 years?
Exactly.

Boycott on LI when NHL returns? Who would notice the difference?

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:42 PM
  #875
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This is what I think we should do to Wang for the way he's run the Isles regardless of any lockout....
Old news.

I love Mr. Wang.............since October 24.

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