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Old
12-07-2012, 10:21 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I fail to see one point that he has made for himself or the players he represents.
By point I mean fight. He's there to just fight, and make it all as complicated as possible, because he doesn't like salary caps(and the PA didn't cave until after the season was done last time either), and he's going up against an ownership group that cancelled an entire season for the one thing Fehr dislikes the most.

He's a lit match around dry hay. The longer this goes on, the closer the flame gets to the fingers holding the match, the more likely that the match is dropped, and then the whole barn goes up.

I don't see where Donald Fehr agrees to a deal involving a hard cap. What that means for NHL hockey being played again, I don't know.

I don't know why players who seem to hate Bettman, don't trust the owners, and don't like financial restrictions, have been signing contracts with NHL teams since 2005. If it's about principle, if it's about standing up for what's right, then show the NHL that it needs you more than you need it. Sign in other leagues. Let the NHL die without you, and then you'll have owners begging for you to come back. They'll give you whatever you want. No cap, no draft, UFA at 18, you name it. The players keep taking the NHL's money though.

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12-07-2012, 10:33 AM
  #402
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I was in my car listening to all three statements. I was hopeful when i heard Fehrs first one and confused with the second. When i heard GB and the tone in his voice I thought What the ...
Then listened to all three several times while driving around.
My take away is the players and owners were agreeing that the owners would give 1,2,3 if the players accepted A,BC. Then Fehr talked to the players and said "we can get more"
The players then said ok we will take 1,2,3 but we dont accept A,B and we will give little c
Bettman sounded hurt. Acting?
The thing that gets me is the voice mail. It sounded like it was called in anger. Even Fehr said it was hard to understand all that was sent. The owners, even the Leafs, feel that Fehr is out to destroy the process.
I still think a deal can be done but Fehr has now pushed as far as he can. It is now time for bridge building( or rebuilding after burning them down)

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12-07-2012, 10:47 AM
  #403
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I'm so sick an tired of The Fehr brothers. Not once have I felt that they were contributing anything to these negotiations, presenting the same proposal over and over again and now changing on what was agreed on.

I can understand those saying - They are not interested in making any deal at all.

I base this on everything I have read from The business of hockey so far and just watch the latest PC and tell me I'm wrong.

This is sickening.

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12-07-2012, 11:23 AM
  #404
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When I heard that quote from the anonymous source by Adrian Dater...I nearly lost it.

I can't believe that Fehr would be so arrogant as to go against the majority of the P.A., pander to the top money makers, and convince them that not getting it done on Wednesday was a good idea.

These players just lose a little more and more each day in my eyes. I feel terrible for the guys who wanted to get it done on Wednesday but now have to endure this.

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Old
12-07-2012, 11:31 AM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
Yesterday was so entertaining, yet so depressing. I've never seen GB like that. That wasn't primarily anger towards Fehr or the NHLPA, that was frustration. Frustration with a process that was moving along nicely until a change was inexplicably made.

Process going good, players and owners meeting.

S. Fehr/Daly at podium together, wow, things going nicely

Moderate owners, who are known to want to play and solve this, are positive.

The next day, despite progress being made, players insist on changing format. Mood changes. Things blow up.

I'm far from GB's biggest fan, but that PC was the complete and utter truth. It mirrors exactly what was said by the moderate owners, some of who were incredulous and visibly pissed at what had happened. No rebuttal by Fehr. No response so far. No denying anything that Bettman said. The players' were not commenting after his PC, but their body language said all that needed to be. I'm curious to hear what the players' response is to GB, if there even is one.

If I'm a guy who just wants to play, I'm pretty upset right now. The representatives at that meeting just completely alienated every ally they had on the owners side. When owners like Toronto are angry, guys that have everything to lose with a lockout, you know that what transpired was completely self-destructive by the NHLPA.

My take, anyways. Surprisingly, I don't think this will impact whether we have a season or not. There are always one of these big eye openers in any CBA negotiation, usually close to the time a deal is made.
Good take. Clearly, if the owner contingent from Pittsburgh and Toronto are upset, then I would say the NHLPA really ****ed up by pulling the carpet out from under the seemingly good momentum that had been built up.

The Fehrs are jerks, no two ways about it.

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12-07-2012, 12:02 PM
  #406
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Good post by this guy :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Here's the best part:

They lose an average of 9 million PER DAY. The owners do too, but most don't care, because owning an NHL team isn't their first monetary source.

Then, if you take this 517 million, and divide it by 700, (approx. number of players)

THE average player has lost $738,571

The average player loses $12, 857 per day!

(9,000,000/700)
These guys are flushing Twelve GRAND down the tubes A DAY.

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12-07-2012, 12:30 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
Good take. Clearly, if the owner contingent from Pittsburgh and Toronto are upset, then I would say the NHLPA really ****ed up by pulling the carpet out from under the seemingly good momentum that had been built up.

The Fehrs are jerks, no two ways about it.
People will complain and argue with me but Fehr destroyed the game of baseball. I used to like watching America's past time. Now it's more like wow, Arod had a terrible night but oh well, at least he still made $500,000. Say what you will about the guy but in my books, he could care less about the game of hockey. The guy is a ruthless lawyer. But gosh dangit the guy is a complete genius at persuasion and brainwashing. He reminded me when I used to work for corporate america. He's the guy that keeps dangling a carrot in front of you.

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Old
12-07-2012, 12:48 PM
  #408
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The players should really learn to keep their mouths (errr. more like keyboards) shut. Dustin Penner was actively engaging with fans last night and it does nothing good for him and the union. None of us can relate your problem(s) and it is very hard for me to feel sympathy for either side. They are welcome to say whatever they like but they ought to keep in mind that those owners they are disputing with and the fans that some of them are mouthing off to pay their checks. I don't think that they realize that this has the potential to really ruin the level interest the game has gained since the last lockout which will decrease revenues and decrease their pay. They are all connected.

You know BizNasty is on there saying he'd like to hear from the other 22 owners and I responded that I'd like to hear from all the players. The fact of the matter is not all of either side is on the same page. On top of the his hash tag has something about it being about the money for the owners. What in the hell does he think the players are rejecting deals for? Don't call the owners greedy when in the same breath you aren't accepting deals because of, you guessed it, money!

I'm so sick of this but it is like a train wreck and I have battered woman syndrome. Hit me baby one more time!

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12-07-2012, 12:50 PM
  #409
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http://www.thefourthperiod.com/colum.../db121207.html

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:33 PM
  #410
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That's a great article.

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:01 PM
  #411
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Awesome article and 100 percent correct.

This is not 1994, and these are not MLB owners. This is an ownership group that has no problem cancelling a season.

There is no Multi Billion Dollar T.V. Deal to miss out on.

Fehr might be picking a fight with the wrong people.

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:22 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
The players should really learn to keep their mouths (errr. more like keyboards) shut.
Go enjoy your money, just don't throw it in everyone's face. How is that not easy? Especially for hockey players, who barely anyone wants to watch play hockey anyway.

Some of these hardline players, on twitter or off, are just too much. They should be thanking Bettman. They should be thanking the owners who can't not throw money at them. Why is Ron Hainsey a hardliner?

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #413
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Again, for what seems like the millionth time by now, I fail to see how everyone on here it seems keep portraying the players as the unreasonable party in all of this. They are on the only ones who have agreed to any reductions in benefits. Can ANYONE here name a single issue where the owners are giving up ANYTHING? They are receiving a greater benefit on, I think, every issue. The Players' % of HRR is coming down significantly. I significant move, and probably a reasonable one. A 50-50 split makes some sense. The Players have already agreed to a limit on the length of contracts, albeit at a different number than the owners, but the end result will be close to 5 than 8. Donald Fehr is looking out for the interests of the individuals he represents. Whether you like it or not, Players get paid millions of dollars per year to play a game, however, that is not something that should be held against them if that is what the market allows them to make. The very top in any industry gets paid million of dollars. Whether that is an attorney, doctor, or in the financial market. They are in the top .01 % of their chosen profession, that should not be held against them.

Thus, it is commendable in my view, that the Players have taken a long term approach during these negotiations, instead of rolling over and playing dead, because if they did, it would send a signal to the other party that every 6-8 years their share of the pie can be made smaller, and smaller, and smaller. They are looking out for the best interests of future NHL players, not just its current membership. Whether you disagree with that or not, that is up to you. I guess we will see if the NHL and Gary Bettman think that in the end, a significant reduction in HRR%, caps on player contracting rights, a rollback in the salary cap, and long term economic stability is enough for them to swallow, otherwise they will cancel the season and cause massive damage to their product that will take YEARS to recover from. I think that is the play Donald Fehr is banking on... because I cannot see ownership inflicting such damage when the sides are talking near the same language.

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Old
12-07-2012, 04:45 PM
  #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaAnimal View Post
People will complain and argue with me but Fehr destroyed the game of baseball. I used to like watching America's past time. Now it's more like wow, Arod had a terrible night but oh well, at least he still made $500,000. Say what you will about the guy but in my books, he could care less about the game of hockey. The guy is a ruthless lawyer. But gosh dangit the guy is a complete genius at persuasion and brainwashing. He reminded me when I used to work for corporate america. He's the guy that keeps dangling a carrot in front of you.
I'm curious how him doing his job ruined baseball.

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12-07-2012, 04:48 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Awesome article and 100 percent correct.

This is not 1994, and these are not MLB owners. This is an ownership group that has no problem cancelling a season.

There is no Multi Billion Dollar T.V. Deal to miss out on.

Fehr might be picking a fight with the wrong people.
Yeah, half of these owners will not lose a cent by not playing. Fehr was a baad hire.

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Old
12-07-2012, 04:58 PM
  #416
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Yeah, half of these owners will not lose a cent by not playing. Fehr was a baad hire.
So? And half of the owners would lose money if they played. What's your point?

Bottom line is the NHLPA is keeping the fans (mainly ME!!) from watching NHL hockey.

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Old
12-07-2012, 05:02 PM
  #417
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Yeah, half of these owners will not lose a cent by not playing. Fehr was a baad hire.
Um, no?

Teams still have to pay coaches, scouts, trainers, rink maintenance, etc.

Teams still have to reserve dates for the arenas, perhaps costing them money in a lease , or the loss of potential revenue by having the rink empty (if they own the rink ala AEG).

They may still get there NBC deal paid out, but they will subsequentely lose that revenue in year 10 of the deal (or potentially if the deal is signed mid-season the not get a full payment for the season this year, meaning that they lose some TV revenue they are not getting back).

Not too mention any potential revenue they lose going forward from the backlash from the lockout. The teams are losing money by sitting idle either way. The players stand to lose more, but it's hurting everybody.

Both sides are being stupid, fighting over the scraps of a dwindling pie. Urgh. Screw em all.

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12-07-2012, 05:12 PM
  #418
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Um, no?

Teams still have to pay coaches, scouts, trainers, rink maintenance, etc.

Teams still have to reserve dates for the arenas, perhaps costing them money in a lease , or the loss of potential revenue by having the rink empty (if they own the rink ala AEG).

They may still get there NBC deal paid out, but they will subsequentely lose that revenue in year 10 of the deal (or potentially if the deal is signed mid-season the not get a full payment for the season this year, meaning that they lose some TV revenue they are not getting back).

Not too mention any potential revenue they lose going forward from the backlash from the lockout. The teams are losing money by sitting idle either way. The players stand to lose more, but it's hurting everybody.

Both sides are being stupid, fighting over the scraps of a dwindling pie. Urgh. Screw em all.
According to the Wall Street Journal, 11 teams lost money last year. They can maintain their funds by renting out the arenas. I was making a generalization to agree with the article that says that Fehr is a fighter that is used to fighting against huge money making leagues. It was a bad hire by the players. Not the kind of union leader they needed.

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12-07-2012, 05:18 PM
  #419
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According to the Wall Street Journal, 11 teams lost money last year. They can maintain their funds by renting out the arenas. I was making a generalization to agree with the article that says that Fehr is a fighter that is used to fighting against huge money making leagues. It was a bad hire by the players. Not the kind of union leader they needed.
Ok agreed. Sorry, I did not have time to read that article (exam finals right now). Just wanted to point out, the owners are not necessarily getting off scot free here. Although it is true it will hurt them less.

They would have been much better off with a leader that would work with the NHL. Maybe then we wouldn't have needed to see the moderates try a coup like they did last week...

I suppose that's all moot now. The players have no choice but to follow Fehr now, it's much too late at this point for anything else. They will live or die with him. As I posted in another thread, the players have hired him (whether that be wrong or right) and now they have to back him. Turning on him at all will only have the NHL attacking and pushing them back further.

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:20 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
They would have been much better off with a leader that would work with the NHL. Maybe then we wouldn't have needed to see the moderates try a coup like they did last week...
Yup, someone like...oooh... I dunno....

This guy?


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12-07-2012, 06:29 PM
  #421
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
By point I mean fight. He's there to just fight, and make it all as complicated as possible, because he doesn't like salary caps(and the PA didn't cave until after the season was done last time either), and he's going up against an ownership group that cancelled an entire season for the one thing Fehr dislikes the most.

He's a lit match around dry hay. The longer this goes on, the closer the flame gets to the fingers holding the match, the more likely that the match is dropped, and then the whole barn goes up.

I don't see where Donald Fehr agrees to a deal involving a hard cap. What that means for NHL hockey being played again, I don't know.

I don't know why players who seem to hate Bettman, don't trust the owners, and don't like financial restrictions, have been signing contracts with NHL teams since 2005. If it's about principle, if it's about standing up for what's right, then show the NHL that it needs you more than you need it. Sign in other leagues. Let the NHL die without you, and then you'll have owners begging for you to come back. They'll give you whatever you want. No cap, no draft, UFA at 18, you name it. The players keep taking the NHL's money though.
Sorry then, I agree with you.

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Old
12-07-2012, 06:50 PM
  #422
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I wish people on the main board would stop trying to use MLB or the NFL as some kind of legit financial model for the NHL.

These bone heads keep saying "O just be like the NFL and more Revenue sharing".

Do these people realize that teams in the NFL receive 110 MILLION A YEAR in T.V. Money PER TEAM.

That in 2014 the NFL will receive close to Five BILLION with a B PER YEAR in TV dollars.....

You cannot have a model like the NFL PERIOD. It's a completely different model BECAUSE of HUGE revenue streams.


Last edited by damacles1156: 12-07-2012 at 06:55 PM.
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12-07-2012, 11:39 PM
  #423
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Someone retweeted Walsh and I clicked on it. Please, Please chop my fingers off if I do that again.

I forgot what a tool that guy is.

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Old
12-08-2012, 12:01 AM
  #424
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the funny thing is even with all the billion dollar tv contracts the NBA has a cap lower than the nhl, the nfl players dont even have guaranteed contracts. lol nhl players.

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12-08-2012, 12:41 AM
  #425
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the funny thing is even with all the billion dollar tv contracts the NBA has a cap lower than the nhl, the nfl players dont even have guaranteed contracts. lol nhl players.

The NBA has less players to pay, though.

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