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News from Around the League - Part XXXV - I'll see you in court!

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Old
12-07-2012, 01:06 PM
  #476
kiwidevil
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It's because Fehr is one of these union ******. They don't care about production, progression. They just get an ego stroke about supposedly "empowering" workers etc. They need to rip apart workplaces and stall everything. That's how they get a reputation to get their next job, once workers get angry enough they hire people like Fehr.

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12-07-2012, 01:09 PM
  #477
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Even more on Bettman's side after last night. How could Fehr drop a proposal that the NHL didn't even want on their laps... and then by the time the owners are flipping to page two, Fehr's in front of everyone talking about how close they are. That was a childish and embarrassing PR stunt and I'm glad everyone sees this for what it was.

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12-07-2012, 01:09 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by kiwidevil View Post
It's because Fehr is one of these union ******. They don't care about production, progression. They just get an ego stroke about supposedly "empowering" workers etc. They need to rip apart workplaces and stall everything. That's how they get a reputation to get their next job, once workers get angry enough they hire people like Fehr.
I feel like unions were created on the grounds of needing sufficient bathroom/smoke breaks, lunch, work during reasonable hours and conditions, and equal pay. Not.... whatever this is..

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12-07-2012, 01:18 PM
  #479
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Calling players out on Twitter and not getting answers. Surprise.

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12-07-2012, 01:44 PM
  #480
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Now does anyone who jumped on me for asking ''Why does the league need a union?'' months ago see what I mean? If they didn't have this union players like Crosby, and Malkin would be making a little over a million a year. Maybe a million five. I really believe that.

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12-07-2012, 01:49 PM
  #481
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yeah...imo they need a union. or at least, they did. whether they need one at this stage is debatable, but the union has done more good than bad

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12-07-2012, 01:49 PM
  #482
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Now does anyone who jumped on me for asking ''Why does the league need a union?'' months ago see what I mean? If they didn't have this union players like Crosby, and Malkin would be making a little over a million a year. Maybe a million five. I really believe that.
Removing unions from professional sports leagues is out of the question.
That's a terrible idea.

Just because Fehr is militant in his ways doesn't mean to disband the entire thing.

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12-07-2012, 01:52 PM
  #483
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I disagree completely. I won't disagree with everything it's done, and everything in the CBA, but they've gotten out of control these unions. People complain about the teachers union, and police/firemens unions. Those people make dirt compared to what these players are making.

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12-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #484
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You're only looking at the money issue, though. That's something that a well written CBA can restrain.

There are a couple dozen other issues that would go under the carpet if they were left to the league/Board of Governors.

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12-07-2012, 02:03 PM
  #485
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I don't really care anymore. I'm starting to get to that point. I'll be back whenever they come back. For now I'm starting not to care though. Not many people involved in this process care about me or you. Why should I care about them? Hardly any of these players talk about the fans. They're talking about how the owners think they can break them apart, and that they stand behind Don. Like Nona has said, where is the concern for the paying customer?

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12-07-2012, 02:05 PM
  #486
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There are a couple dozen other issues that would go under the carpet if they were left to the league/Board of Governors.
This is why I can get behind some of the things like I said, and don't disagree with everything.

Also a lot of people on the main board have taken to twitter to call out some of these players. I know I said I didn't care at this point, but I think it's time the paying customer has a say here. Especially with social media being what it is these days.

I encourage fans to let the players know how you feel. No threats, or acting silly either, and no calling out every player on twitter(Like Cam Janssen, and players who have kept quiet) I'm talking about the big mouths like Upshall.

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12-07-2012, 02:08 PM
  #487
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This scene is exactly what I always think back to when talking about sport unions, and money, and how they've gotten out of control. In 1960 when that scene was supposed to be taking place he says Mickey Mantle made $100k grand a year. Not sure if that's the exact figure, but I would guess it's somewhere close to it. $100k grand in 1960 dollars is just below a million in 2012's dollars.

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12-07-2012, 02:15 PM
  #488
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This is why I can get behind some of the things like I said, and don't disagree with everything.

Also a lot of people on the main board have taken to twitter to call out some of these players. I know I said I didn't care at this point, but I think it's time the paying customer has a say here. Especially with social media being what it is these days.

I encourage fans to let the players know how you feel. No threats, or acting silly either, and no calling out every player on twitter(Like Cam Janssen, and players who have kept quiet) I'm talking about the big mouths like Upshall.
I'm ready to throw my hands up at this point and just say **** it all.
I'm getting less torn about this as the ******** carries on... but as much as I want a season right now, my greater concern is what will happen when this next CBA expires.

My previous stance was that I was pro whoever signed their names on the dotted lines first.
But... I want a CBA put together that won't let **** hit in the fan whenever it expires. I want a CBA that doesn't entice owners to keep grabbing for more each time and one that doesn't make the players feel like their entitled beyond the league's means.

That's where I'm at right now. I miss hockey, I'll watch it whenever it returns... but there's no way I can get excited about it.
Sign the damn thing whenever... just don't be ****** about it next time.

To each his own, though.

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12-07-2012, 02:37 PM
  #489
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Removing unions from professional sports leagues is out of the question. That's a terrible idea.
Why? You're not in favor of an operating budget that functions within the realm of fiscal sanity?


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Originally Posted by manilaNJ View Post
Just because Fehr is militant in his ways doesn't mean to disband the entire thing.
Fehr is the scapegoat. Regardless of who piloted the Union ship, he/she would be using the exact same mafia extortion tactics that Fehr is. It's what Unions do. The owners have made serious and meaningful concessions here already, and it's not enough. The Union wants its' pound of flesh.

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12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
  #490
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I feel like unions were created on the grounds of needing sufficient bathroom/smoke breaks, lunch, work during reasonable hours and conditions, and equal pay. Not.... whatever this is..
Let the players just throw away job flexibility. Why don't they just agree to be tied down to the teams that drafted them forever?

It's about getting the fairest deal possible. Fehr is trying to do that right now, no way in hell the players ever agree to 5 year maximum contracts. There's no job security there.

The owners offered one of their accept it or **** off proposals. NHL, or every organization, feels like they can just bully around the workers, or in this case, the players. Players are tired of that happening again, and again. Aside from media ********, Fehr is getting the best deal possible to the players, and news break, that's what he is getting paid to do.

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12-07-2012, 02:40 PM
  #491
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It's about getting the fairest deal possible. Fehr is trying to do that right now, no way in hell the players ever agree to 5 year maximum contracts. There's no job security there.
Who do you work for?

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12-07-2012, 02:45 PM
  #492
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I feel like unions were created on the grounds of needing sufficient bathroom/smoke breaks, lunch, work during reasonable hours and conditions, and equal pay. Not.... whatever this is..
That is about 3% of it, the rest is workers sense on entitlement.

"I've been here for a year now, i deserve a pay raise!!"

Yes, but you aren't very good at your job and haven't made the company any money.

But the unions make it so you have to pay them more. Then people wonder my the economy is in the **** and businesses go under and there aren't any jobs

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12-07-2012, 02:49 PM
  #493
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Why? You're not in favor of an operating budget that functions within the realm of fiscal sanity?
As I said the first time, the $$$ is only one aspect of a union's purpose.
A large one and an overstated one - but that in itself can be cured with a well thought out CBA.

But, still, the functions of a union go beyond raking in a paycheck, and it's those other aspects that I don't trust the league to step in and take care of.

Simple as that.

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12-07-2012, 02:50 PM
  #494
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Who do you work for?
Don't know what your saying?

But guys now-a-days want the long-term job secure contracts. If you're trying to imply five years is secure, the last CBA gave them that security of negotiating whatever contract length they wanted. Why do they all the sudden give that up?

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12-07-2012, 02:59 PM
  #495
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Don't know what your saying?

But guys now-a-days want the long-term job secure contracts. If you're trying to imply five years is secure, the last CBA gave them that security of negotiating whatever contract length they wanted. Why do they all the sudden give that up?
Unemployment in this nation is roughly 13%.

Who do you know besides professional athletes and few others that can sign a "guaranteed" contract for 5 years worth of "job security".

I have absolutely no sympathy for millionaires betching that their already egregiously inflated salaries being protected for "only" 5 years simply is just not enough.

The average person making a measly $40,000 in this country has no guaranteed job "security" to speak of (nor should they). Life is rough.

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12-07-2012, 03:03 PM
  #496
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wheres the no spin zone on these forums?

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12-07-2012, 03:29 PM
  #497
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Unemployment in this nation is roughly 13%.

Who do you know besides professional athletes and few others that can sign a "guaranteed" contract for 5 years worth of "job security".

I have absolutely no sympathy for millionaires betching that their already egregiously inflated salaries being protected for "only" 5 years simply is just not enough.

The average person making a measly $40,000 in this country has no guaranteed job "security" to speak of (nor should they). Life is rough.
Totally agree here.

Especially with sports players where so many times players turn to crap once signing a long term contract.

It's " I want guaranteed money so I can retire in a palace while I eat up your cap space and cost you 13 times what my production is worth. . . . .if I actually play that is."

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12-07-2012, 03:36 PM
  #498
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Totally agree here.

Especially with sports players where so many times players turn to crap once signing a long term contract.

It's " I want guaranteed money so I can retire in a palace while I eat up your cap space and cost you 13 times what my production is worth. . . . .if I actually play that is."

I wish I could sign a guaranteed 8 year contract with IBM or Pfizer.

I'd turn in exemplary financial analysis for about 2 years, then pull a Randy Moss and eat cheeseburgers during staff meetings with my feet up on the desk playing Angry Birds.

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12-07-2012, 03:40 PM
  #499
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http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/09/13/garys-game/

I read this a while back on one of the main forums (the Business of Hockey I think), it's an informative piece on Bettman and the prior two CBA negotiatons. I didn't want to depress anyone by posting it - and it was written back in September - but after the last couple days that ship's sailed anyway. It does contain some really interesting info in there and illustrates just how much baggage exists in these labor wars:

This on the '95 lockout for example:

Quote:
It wasn’t until Jan. 9, less than 24 hours from the league’s deadline, that the make-or-break bargaining session was convened. The meeting at the Four Seasons hotel in Manhattan started at 10:30 a.m., with the commissioner tabling what the Bruins’ Harry Sinden had called the owners’ “final, final, final, final, final offer.” Progress was fitful, and it was getting close to midnight when Bettman and Goodenow repaired to Shun Lee Palace, a Chinese restaurant that advertises itself as the ideal location for Upper East Side socialites, to hash the last details out over dinner. But things dragged on long after the egg rolls got cold. It was 6 a.m. when both negotiating teams, red-eyed and rumpled, met up in Goodenow’s hotel suite for what was supposed to be one last examination of the terms. The list was read aloud: an escalating cap on rookie salaries, beginning at US$850,000; check. The continuation of the existing arbitration system, but with a new right for owners to walk away from decisions they didn’t like up to three times every two years; check. A six-year term, with both sides retaining the right to reopen the deal after the 1997-98 season; check. Then came the provisions about free agency, and that’s where things went sideways. “Gary thought they had agreed on one thing, Bob thought they had agreed on another,” John McCambridge, one of the NHLPA lawyers, recounts. “People were getting pretty hot. The whole deal almost blew sky high.” What sounded to outsiders like a trifling matter—whether the age of unrestricted free agency would drop from 32 to 31 after the first year of the new agreement or the third—now threatened to derail the entire enterprise.
And on 2004, some of this sounds eerily like what just happened now:

Quote:
So a decision was made to embark on a different course: a series of informal, without-prejudice meetings where the two sides could freely explore all the options for a new collective bargaining agreement. The NHLPA would be represented by their deputy director, Ted Saskin, and outside lawyer John McCambridge. For the NHL, it would be Bob Batterman and Bettman’s major-domo, Bill Daly. The secret talks, dubbed Project Blue Fin after a seafood and sushi restaurant in the W Hotel in Times Square, the site of the initial meeting, were focused on finding a compromise. The mood was cordial and no subject was verboten.

There were close to a dozen sessions over four months, and it seemed like progress was being made, but then in early June, Goodenow and Bettman joined the group and things started to fall apart. In the presence of the main combatants, all the bad blood from the first lockout suddenly flowed back into the room, and winning became a lot more important than bargaining. The positions quickly hardened. The league wanted a firm ceiling on the amount of money going to the players, and the NHLPA wouldn’t budge.
There's a lot of other good stuff there too, especially the behind-scenes maneuvering of the first lockout, but those were just the two main anecdotes that stood out. And don't forget, Goodenow is a Fehr disciple.


Last edited by NJDevs26: 12-07-2012 at 03:46 PM.
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12-07-2012, 03:41 PM
  #500
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Bob McKenzie just tweeted that there are 89 players on 5 year contracts. Of those 89, over half are on 6-7 yr deals retained by the original team.

That brings us to around 40 players that this 5 year clause effects. If you eliminate the would-be-illegal backdiving contracts, it would be even fewer.

If the last CBA had this v5 year contract limit (7 yr for retaining FA's), only appoximately 30 players would be effected out of around 700 players. That's 4% of the league.

And that's a huge ****ing joke. Unacceptable that this is the dealbreaker.

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