HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Lockout Thread #3: The Rollercoaster Continues...

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
December 15-31st,2012 6 19.35%
January 2013 13 41.94%
September 2013 6 19.35%
October 2013-December 2013 2 6.45%
January 2014 0 0%
September 2014 0 0%
October 2014-January 2015 0 0%
NHL is gone forever 4 12.90%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-07-2012, 01:48 PM
  #651
GO99
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GO99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,490
vCash: 50
Only positive to a short season is that every game will be like the playoffs

GO99 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:51 PM
  #652
okgooil
Registered User
 
okgooil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 12,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
As a lawyer, I can tell you I suspect Bettman was being genuine, but there's no way to tell.
LOL. Lawyers are a differnt breed alright.

okgooil is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:53 PM
  #653
Six in O6
Registered User
 
Six in O6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
Only positive to a short season is that every game will be like the playoffs
There wont be a season.

Six in O6 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:57 PM
  #654
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Scottie Upshall ‏@ScottieUpshall
We don't understand anything anymore... They want less salaries, done. Less rights, done. Anything else? U want our arms and legs too?
Response:

Quote:
Jason Brough ‏@JasonPHT
.@ScottieUpshall All good points. Maybe don't tweet about your sweet beach view though.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 01:59 PM
  #655
Philly85
Raps'
 
Philly85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Response:



He is such a ****ing moron. It's embarrassing. Sounding like Latrell Sprewell back in the day... "I got to feed my family"... and I'm not sure if he has any... even if...

Philly85 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:01 PM
  #656
Jamin
Registered User
 
Jamin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,922
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Pssshhh. Nobody trusts lawyers

Just my thoughts on all the hoopla. I think Bettman was more pissed about missing his 62 game target for full sponsorship dollars than anything else. Sure it all fell apart when the players brought Fehr back, but did the NHL really think they could get the players to agree to a deal without talking to him? The owners certainly wouldn't be expected to agree to a PA offer without consulting Bettman.

Edit: And for all the backlash against the players, they do have a point. Since the starting point is the last CBA, they have made concessions on near every point the NHL wanted. What have they gotten for this?
Concessions from the owners....

Jamin is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:06 PM
  #657
worraps
Acceptance
 
worraps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,683
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Pssshhh. Nobody trusts lawyers

Just my thoughts on all the hoopla. I think Bettman was more pissed about missing his 62 game target for full sponsorship dollars than anything else. Sure it all fell apart when the players brought Fehr back, but did the NHL really think they could get the players to agree to a deal without talking to him? The owners certainly wouldn't be expected to agree to a PA offer without consulting Bettman.

Edit: And for all the backlash against the players, they do have a point. Since the starting point is the last CBA, they have made concessions on near every point the NHL wanted. What have they gotten for this?
I don't think an expired CBA (the last one) is relevant at all.

The owners are currently only willing to pay 50% of their revenues to their front-line employees and want to make sure that intention isn't circumvented by long-term, back-diving, deals.

Everything else is just noise.

worraps is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:12 PM
  #658
okgooil
Registered User
 
okgooil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 12,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
Response:



Haha, this is pretty sweet. One thing that gets me is that quite a few times I have heard the Owners or Bettman say that players have to make money. None of them want the players to play for nothing. THey all suggest that a healthy league has players making a very good wage. However, I have not once heard the players say that the owners have to make money. It is just a odd thing. THey are crying like the poor dock worker who is locked out to get their wage from 5$ and hour to 5.50$ a hour. These are millionaires and I have not heard one say that the owners have to make good money to. We both have to make good money.

Any way, it is just funny. I am lost in the players retoric. I mean with all this we are the 99% and occupy stuff going on, the players need to realize, they are the 1% lol. it is pretty amazing they are so rich yet act so poor.

okgooil is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:16 PM
  #659
smackdaddy
Hall-RNH-Eberle
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,005
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by okgooil View Post
Haha, this is pretty sweet. One thing that gets me is that quite a few times I have heard the Owners or Bettman say that players have to make money. None of them want the players to play for nothing. THey all suggest that a healthy league has players making a very good wage. However, I have not once heard the players say that the owners have to make money. It is just a odd thing. THey are crying like the poor dock worker who is locked out to get their wage from 5$ and hour to 5.50$ a hour. These are millionaires and I have not heard one say that the owners have to make good money to. We both have to make good money.

Any way, it is just funny. I am lost in the players retoric. I mean with all this we are the 99% and occupy stuff going on, the players need to realize, they are the 1% lol. it is pretty amazing they are so rich yet act so poor.
They are so far removed from reality it's not even funny. Claiming that a 20% paycut is actually comparable to you or I losing 20%. It's insulting to me to hear people like Upshall make these stupid remarks. And then trying to garner my sympathy?

There is no mistake. The players are the ones causing this lockout.

smackdaddy is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:17 PM
  #660
GO99
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GO99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,490
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six in O6 View Post
There wont be a season.
I still cannot see them cancelling it. Too much at stake. They are heading towards the home stretch now.

GO99 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:18 PM
  #661
Matador
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,373
vCash: 500
To some degree you have to give Fehr credit. Bettman was right last night when he said that the owners have been negotiating against themselves because Fehr keeps moving the goalposts. No one knows what the NHLPA wants any more. Make whole, 57%, pensions, individual rooms, mortgage compensation post trade, escrow caps, etc.....

However, at the same time this moving goalpost strategy is utterly idiotic. The NHLPA had their chance with what I would consider moderate owners on Wednesday. Having now alienated those individuals, ironically their best chance of getting a deal now resides with Bettman. The very man they have continually vilified.

Going in to Wednesday, many in the NHLPA held the belief that the moderate owners were the voice of reason and Bettman was the problem. Bettman now is the man the NHLPA has to convince to get a deal done, unless two-thirds of the BoG votes to overturn him. An event I would consider rather unlikely.

Great job at getting the owners to negotiate against themselves Fehr. But it was taken too far. A deal was within reach. Now not only have have players likely lost all of this years salary, when 2 months ago a deal existed to save the entire season, but they will likely never receive a better payout than what has been offered already. Sure, they make get some concessions like individual rooms, shorter training camps, longer Christmas breaks, etc. But they will never recoup the money already lost.

In an environment where time is the most precious commodity to a player, the NHLPA's bargaining position has been somewhat questionable. If you were going to get the owners to negotiate against themselves to minimize the damage to players from a 12% salary drop, you had to start negotiating last December like the league had requested.

Time now works in the owners favour. There are hundred of UFA/RFAs this summer. Maybe only 20% of them are good enough to play in the NHL. Yet arguing over make whole does nothing for them from here on out. The owners can drop the concept of make whole, or at least substantially get rid of it, saving millions of dollars. To these UFA/RFAs make whole is not of value any more. There will be infighting within the PA from here on out without the ability to rally around make whole.

While I'm ranting. Enough with this Bettman/BoG are damaging the game rhetoric. Its utter BS. World Juniors, AHL and the CHL are doing just fine. Hockey isn't being damaged, the NHL brand is. Hockey will continue to exist with or without the NHLPA/NHL in its current form.


Last edited by Matador: 12-07-2012 at 02:26 PM.
Matador is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:18 PM
  #662
Tyrolean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Austria
Posts: 6,547
vCash: 500
I think most fans are fed up and really don't care anymore. They've found alternative sources for entertainment by now. I know i have.

Tyrolean is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:21 PM
  #663
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
Twitter has made it so easy for fans to spot the morons and the "villains" in this league. When (if) I attend a game in the near future my heckling and booing is going to be far more pronounced depending on the player(s) playing.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:25 PM
  #664
okgooil
Registered User
 
okgooil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, AB
Posts: 12,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
To some degree you have to give Fehr credit. Bettman was right last night when he said that the owners have been negotiating against themselves because Fehr keeps moving the goalposts. No one knows what the NHLPA wants any more. Make whole, 57%, pensions, individual rooms, mortgage compensation post trade, escrow caps, etc.....

However, at the same time this moving goalpost strategy is utterly idiotic. The NHLPA had their chance with what I would consider moderate owners on Wednesday. Having now alienated those individuals, ironically their best chance of getting a deal now resides with Bettman. The very man they have continually vilified.

Going in to Wednesday, many in the NHLPA held the belief that the moderate owners were the voice of reason and Bettman was the problem. Bettman now is the man the NHLPA has to convince to get a deal done, unless two-thirds of the BoG votes to overturn him. An event I would consider rather unlikely.

Great job at getting the owners to negotiate against themselves Fehr. But it was taken too far. A deal was within reach. Now not only have have players likely lost all of this years salary, when 2 months ago a deal existed to save the entire season, but they will likely never receive a better payout that what has been offered already. Sure, they make get some concessions like individual rooms, shorter training camps, longer Christmas breaks, etc. But they will never recoup the money already lost.

In an environment where time is the most precious commodity to a player, the NHLPA's bargaining position has been somewhat questionable. If you were going to get the owners to negotiate against themselves to minimize the damage to players from a 12% salary drop, you had to start negotiating last December like the league had requested.

Time now works in the owners favour. There are hundred of UFA/RFAs this summer. Maybe only 20% of them are good enough to play in the NHL. Yet arguing over make whole does nothing for them from here on out. The owners can drop the concept of make whole, or at least substantially get rid of it, saving millions of dollars. To these UFA/RFAs make whole is not of value any more. There will be infighting within the PA from here on out without the ability to rally around make whole.

While I'm ranting. Enough with this Bettman/BoG are damaging the game rhetoric. Its utter BS. World Juniors, AHL and the CHL are doing just fine. Hockey isn't being damaged, the NHL brand is. Hockey will continue to exist with or without the NHLPA/NHL in its current form.
Solid post, I know a few think that the players played a shrewd hand and the owners will give in more in a few weeks and we will have a season. I just don't see it. I think the players had a very good chance of getting the most out of some owners willing to give the most. I think Bettman actually went out of his way to really get a deal done by allowing the process to take place. He knew these owners would give more than any other owners. The players blew it. If I was a betting man, I Think the season is lost and the players will sign a worse deal in the summer. I think the owners will take it to heart and will now win the war of attrition. I think this will go back as a idiotic move by the players. I think the owners will stand firm and the players will eventually do what they did last lock out. Which is take a huge hit and lose a year.

okgooil is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:27 PM
  #665
tv14
Registered User
 
tv14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,200
vCash: 500
Upshall should be thankful he is still a cattle and not chopped liver. He's become so irrelevant that the only time I hear about him is when he's traded to his next team. I'm so glad no Oilers are flapping their mouths like some of the players. They make themselves easy to dislike.

tv14 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #666
GO99
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GO99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,490
vCash: 50
The NHL needs to come back in a few days or a week and give them a final offer. Put it out in the media as well. Tell them they can vote on this or cancel the season:

50/50 linkage
contracts 5 yr max, 7 yr for same team
10 Year CBA and opt out after 8
Be nice and even stick the 300 Make whole back in

GO99 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:30 PM
  #667
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,290
vCash: 500
Next time Florida comes to town fans should ring cow bells whenever Upshall touches the puck. That's assuming he isn't injured, bought out, a healthy scratch, or playing in the AHL/KHL.

nabob is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:36 PM
  #668
OilDrop37
Registered User
 
OilDrop37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up North
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,507
vCash: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
The NHL needs to come back in a few days or a week and give them a final offer. Put it out in the media as well. Tell them they can vote on this or cancel the season:

50/50 linkage
contracts 5 yr max, 7 yr for same team
10 Year CBA and opt out after 8
Be nice and even stick the 300 Make whole back in
NHL will never offer this again. Ship has sailed. They will lower the make whole, attact FA and arbitration now.

OilDrop37 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:37 PM
  #669
Moonlapse Vertigo
Katz n' MacT BFFs
 
Moonlapse Vertigo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,071
vCash: 500
The hits just keep on comin'.

Quote:
Erik Johnson ‏@6ErikJohnson
It's funny reading tweets from ppl saying us players shouldn't listen to Don. People there's a reason MLB had best union during his tenure.

Moonlapse Vertigo is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:40 PM
  #670
s7ark
Moderator
TheWorstEver
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,686
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
Concessions from the owners....
Not following, what concessions has the league made? Apart from offering up 50M out of the 300M make it whole to go towards a pension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by worraps View Post
I don't think an expired CBA (the last one) is relevant at all.

The owners are currently only willing to pay 50% of their revenues to their front-line employees and want to make sure that intention isn't circumvented by long-term, back-diving, deals.

Everything else is just noise.
Afaik, collective bargaining always starts off from the last deal.

s7ark is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:41 PM
  #671
Booya42
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) What the...
 
Booya42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,692
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueChip01 View Post
The NHL needs to come back in a few days or a week and give them a final offer. Put it out in the media as well. Tell them they can vote on this or cancel the season:

50/50 linkage
contracts 5 yr max, 7 yr for same team
10 Year CBA and opt out after 8
Be nice and even stick the 300 Make whole back in
120% this ^ - still some details missing of course, but you get the gist of it.

If pisses me off to no end that the deal was in sight, but Fehr had to **** it up...again.

Booya42 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:41 PM
  #672
OilDrop37
Registered User
 
OilDrop37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up North
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,507
vCash: 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonlapse Vertigo View Post
The hits just keep on comin'.
Like people give a crap about how well a Union is run. Fans only care about how well a League is run!

OilDrop37 is online now  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:43 PM
  #673
Stoneman89
Registered User
 
Stoneman89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,327
vCash: 500
Scottie Upshall ‏@ScottieUpshall
We don't understand anything anymore... They want less salaries, done. Less rights, done. Anything else? U want our arms and legs too?


Scotty, my man. You didn't understand anything BEFORE all this started.

Stoneman89 is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:44 PM
  #674
awesomo
HARD!
 
awesomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: location, location
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,652
vCash: 500
i saw through the attempt on Fehr to say they were close.

I've heard that before lol. And when the players were still up there, i knew something was up. Judging by how the day went yesterday with the owners leaving the meeting, there was no way it was "close."

You're jedi mind tricks are not effective here Donald.

awesomo is offline  
Old
12-07-2012, 02:45 PM
  #675
AM
Registered User
 
AM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
I'm definitely on the owners side in all of this, but in regards to the travel thing - I also travel quite a bit for work, and have never shared a room.

I have no problem with the owners only footing the bill for shared rooms though as the players share is a % of revenue - give the players the option to pay the extra to have their own room. Seems fair to me. But in the grand scheme of things, the hotels they stay at are about $200-$300/night (give or take) - so for around 50 nights/season, you're looking at around $150,000/year with shared rooms. $300,000 if everyone had their own room. Seems like a drop in the bucket to me.
Did you start travelling when you were a nineteen year old kid and had never taken care of anything in your life?

Lets keep this in perspective. I travel with alot of juvenile teams and all the players share rooms.

AM is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.