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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Speculation: Gary Bettman's future

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Old
12-07-2012, 02:22 PM
  #76
ES
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirPaste View Post
Bettman works for the owners, Im sure the owners think he is doing a wonderful job.
NHL failed in 1995 CBA negotiations, they were not able to put a cap in place expect a one for rookies. Last CBA was thought to be so good for owners, well, in the end it wasn't so good for teams like Phoenix. Not really sure how that is wonderful.

I would like to see some sports leaders (not only Bettman) having limited terms in office, regardless how good they are in their job. Like in many political posts. We know that Barack Obama's presidency ends in 2017 no matter what he does.

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12-07-2012, 02:27 PM
  #77
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Whoever said "Not doing what the owners tell him to do" has given the correct answer.

For example:
Opening the season under the old CBA after an ownership vote of 30-0 in favour of a lock out probably would have got him fired.

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12-07-2012, 02:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Nager View Post
2 lockouts in less than a decade?
how about 2 seasons lost in less then a decade?

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12-07-2012, 02:29 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
They only have to "give back" because they already had way more than they should have. The players are like a fat kid who took 7 slices of pizza from the pie and the owners are asking them to "give some back." The players in the NHL currently get a bigger share of revenue than the players in any other major sport.
You've definitely fallen for Fehr and the players's flawed catch phrases. "Give back." Please.

that's not the players fault thats the BOGs fault. In 2004 they should have done a better job we lost a freakin season.

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12-07-2012, 02:34 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Ringmaster316 View Post
that's not the players fault thats the BOGs fault. In 2004 they should have done a better job we lost a freakin season.
Absolutely! Not blaming the players for that, but still, if they want to play in an economically healthy league then they've also got to understand the economic necessities of that League

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12-07-2012, 02:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
The players are mega greedy. This time, it's not Bettman's fault at all.
Fehr is extremely greedy. There is a reason progress can be made when a union boss (ie Fehr) is out of the talks. And based on the info that was released, it certainly didn't appear the owners were trying to steamroll the players that were present.

Anyone who knows anything about the infamous Donald "give me everything I want or screw off" Fehr, knows he is likely the major party to blame for this prolonged lockout. See: MLB.

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12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
Three lockouts. That's all there is to say. I think as fans, removing Bettman would go a long way to smoothing out the anger over the fact that there has been two lockouts in 7 years.
I don't think you understand what's gone on... you don't remove lockouts if you remove Bettman.

The OWNERS vote it in, because their is NO AGREEMENT in place between the owners and PLAYERS... a lockout is in place because there's no agreement, plain and simple.

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12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
  #83
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As long he's doing what his bosses want him to do he has a job for life or his age catches up and he retires.His image must be tarnished will that effect new advertisers coming aboard?

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12-07-2012, 02:45 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Not to mention the poor owners with their record 3.5 billion a year business, wanting even more.
These are the benefits of being an owner. They are the ones taking tremendous financial risks, and handling everything associated with the running of a business. They are entitled to make the lion's share of the profits, not the players. The $3.3 billion business has seen the players getting $1.88 billion of that REVENUE. The owners got $1.42 of that revenue. Of which they had to pay ALL operating expenses and benefits. So yeah, I'd say they are right to scream for more.

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12-07-2012, 02:47 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by MartyForVezina View Post
Fehr is extremely greedy. There is a reason progress can be made when a union boss (ie Fehr) is out of the talks. And based on the info that was released, it certainly didn't appear the owners were trying to steamroll the players that were present.

Anyone who knows anything about the infamous Donald "give me everything I want or screw off" Fehr, knows he is likely the major party to blame for this prolonged lockout. See: MLB.
So the owners can bully the players into what they want? Lets face it players aren't has smart has the owners hence why they have a "union boss"

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12-07-2012, 02:51 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by amit916 View Post
I don't think you understand what's gone on... you don't remove lockouts if you remove Bettman.
Actually, you may. After 2004, it might have been best if Bettman had stepped down and just clear the air. The 2004 lockout was bitter but this one is even worse and that is probably in direct relation to the 2004 lockout. Removing Bettman is a positive step in the eyes of the PA, a good will gesture that it's time to get fresher blood, a different view point and maybe someone the PA would work with.
Quote:
The OWNERS vote it in, because their is NO AGREEMENT in place between the owners and PLAYERS... a lockout is in place because there's no agreement, plain and simple.
Uh, I thought Bettman represented the owners? And helped shape the agreement between the owners and the players?

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12-07-2012, 02:56 PM
  #87
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Bettman should be canned for the simple reason that he refuses to negotiate off of a NHLPA proposal. He refuses to give their proposals due consideration before outright rejecting them. How can you reject four proposals each after 10 minutes when the other party takes hours / days to analyze your proposals, identify issues and counter? Sure, the PA may not be giving you what you want, but counter-offer, negotiate, discuss, bring up the problems, etc. Simply rejecting the proposals that quickly doesn't buy you any good faith, trust or cooperation. How can you lead a group in a negotiation if you're so socially inept? If you have to present the final proposal for it to be accepted by the PA, check your ego at the door or go to hell.

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12-07-2012, 02:58 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ringmaster316 View Post
So the owners can bully the players into what they want? Lets face it players aren't has smart has the owners hence why they have a "union boss"
Anticipating someone would respond with that, I encourage you to read the sentence following the statement you bolded. That of course is just my opinion, though. And let's be realistic here, you think the players who have been going through this for months and have very high class, reputable agents to consult with have no clue what's on the table?

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12-07-2012, 03:05 PM
  #89
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I'm trying to understand why the owners would be so mad that the players no longer wanted to discuss issues without Donald Fehr back in the room?

What were they afraid of?

Were they concerned that they were not going to have to talk to an equal intellect who's been dealing with Labour issues since 1981?

I fail to understand why they left in a huff. Seems pretty petty to me.

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12-07-2012, 03:09 PM
  #90
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As for Bettman, he did seem a little rattled last night at the podium.

Like a petulent child that didn't get the desired result of his most recent manipulation of having the players and owners meet face to face.

Like it was the last trick in his bag outside of a nuclear winter.

I believe that Bettman is safe if gets a deal done. Another canceled season and he is absolutely a goner.

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12-07-2012, 03:39 PM
  #91
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The only reason Gary Bettman & Bill Daily have kept there jobs is the NHL. is so corupted idiots like Bettman & Daliy can keep there jobs no matter what they do & can pretty much do what ever they want . Maybe another lost seaon will wake up the BOG. & realize they hired 2 incompatant boobs the run there league & they will finaly throw them under the bus & hire someone that can do the job properly .

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12-07-2012, 03:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
. I wish posters would understand he's a figurehead for the owners, not the ringleader.
Tell that to NFL fans.

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12-07-2012, 03:57 PM
  #93
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I don't understand this logic at all. This ENTIRE negotiating has been about how much the players have to give back. Everyone agrees including the players, how they have to give back on the total share of the pie, the contract length, etc. If the players don't want to give up everything the owners want then they are greedy? How does this make any sense?
Because they are a product of the system. They make money when the league flourishes. It's not right now, even though revenue is up, that doesn't mean they are making any sort of profit. So yes, they are greedy imo. They're willing to throw away millions this year for what?

I've worked places in the private sector, big company's where they have gone through salary reductions across the board to employees.
It happens to sustain the business. The players apparently feel the league should keep operating at a loss so they can make a few extra bucks.

I just wish the NHL would say screw it and give in to what they want but say contracts are no longer guaranteed. Surprised they have not pushed that more. Don't want to reduce contract length? Fine no more guaranteed contracts.

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12-07-2012, 03:58 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by JMROWE View Post
The only reason Gary Bettman & Bill Daily have kept there jobs is the NHL. is so corupted idiots like Bettman & Daliy can keep there jobs no matter what they do & can pretty much do what ever they want . Maybe another lost seaon will wake up the BOG. & realize they hired 2 incompatant boobs the run there league & they will finaly throw them under the bus & hire someone that can do the job properly .

The only reason Fehr has kept his job is because he has kept the players ill informed.

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12-07-2012, 05:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
NOT locking the NHLPA out when they want to play under an expired CBA
"We want to be able to play this season, make our paychecks, and then strike right before the playoffs. *smug grin in Fehr's direction* Your move, Bettman."

Players locked themselves out.

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12-07-2012, 05:25 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by HockeyShack View Post
The only reason Fehr has kept his job is because he has kept the players ill informed.
Players have been sitting in on negotiations for some time now. Are you suggesting they had to wear earplugs or something?

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12-07-2012, 05:30 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
Players have been sitting in on negotiations for some time now. Are you suggesting they had to wear earplugs or something?
Honestly, we don't know either way what the players know. What I would suggest, however, is that it seems exceedingly unlikely that Don Fehr came to them on October 20th and said, "once games start to get cancelled, the cost of continuing to negotiate is going to exceed the value of what we're fighting for," and the players all said, "That's fine. Please go lose our money."

I'm not suggesting the Fehr is lying or is refusing to give them information, but I think any competent negotiator would've helped his client achieve their optimal outcome. The fact that anyone with a calculator can tell that they've missed that boat suggests to me that he may not be telling them everything they deserve to know.

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12-07-2012, 05:41 PM
  #98
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Honestly, we don't know either way what the players know. What I would suggest, however, is that it seems exceedingly unlikely that Don Fehr came to them on October 20th and said, "once games start to get cancelled, the cost of continuing to negotiate is going to exceed the value of what we're fighting for," and the players all said, "That's fine. Please go lose our money."

I'm not suggesting the Fehr is lying or is refusing to give them information, but I think any competent negotiator would've helped his client achieve their optimal outcome. The fact that anyone with a calculator can tell that they've missed that boat suggests to me that he may not be telling them everything they deserve to know.
There was a player on the radio here in Toronto today. Sorry I missed his name however he stated, exactly what I believe is going on. Namely, the players looking at just this season is short sighted and selfish. Who's to say they don't get lockedout again? The NHL doesn't want to negotiate with our rep. They would rather we get a new rep to their liking and negotiate with him. So they could just steamroll us.

Not word for word what the player said but that was the jest of it. So I think they are well informed.

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12-07-2012, 05:50 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Stix and Stones View Post
There was a player on the radio here in Toronto today. Sorry I missed his name however he stated, exactly what I believe is going on. Namely, the players looking at just this season is short sighted and selfish. Who's to say they don't get lockedout again? The NHL doesn't want to negotiate with our rep. They would rather we get a new rep to their liking and negotiate with him. So they could just steamroll us.

Not word for word what the player said but that was the jest of it. So I think they are well informed.
I don't take any of that as suggesting "well-informed." Well-informed, in my mind, would be being able to do the math on your proposals and discuss how far you are apart in dollar terms, and how much you lose when games get cancelled.

Speculating on lockouts years down the road and complaining about the NHL's dislike for Don Fehr doesn't tell me you understand anything about the negotiations. Actually, it suggests to me that the players think that this is a whimsical lockout the owners put together for the hell of it. But a cursory look around the country suggests otherwise: the NHL offered the players in the poorest major league in NA that best revenue split in NA in time to start a full season. They had been paying their players much more than any other league, as a percentage of revenue, which makes even less sense when you consider the fixed costs of running a hockey team or a basketball team are likely to be about the same. To act like lockouts are just something the league will do whenever it wants unless the players play hardball suggests that they aren't really interested in analyzing the economics of the situation - if they had, I'd hope they'd have some kind of economic rebuttal to the idea that the league offered them a good deal and they're only hurting themselves by not taking it.

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12-07-2012, 06:28 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by flameaholic View Post
Any chance we'll soon be seeing the end of Gary Bettman? Negotiations seemed to pick up this week once Gary Bettman was removed from the bargaining table. He's universally despised by fans, media, players, and probably the majority of owners alike. His tenure as commissioner has been marked both by controversy and constant work stoppages. Bottom line: he's been a failure.

Any chance we could soon be seeing the end of Gary Bettman as National Hockey League commissioner?
Blah blah blah, thats all there is.

Garry is actually doing an outstanding job.

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