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The Walking Dead: Season 3 (Part IV) Returns Feb. 10th

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12-06-2012, 06:45 PM
  #676
Ser Woof
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
You're willing to make insane leaps of logic to mould these characters into what you think they are based on things the writers aren't telling us
Pot. Kettle. Black.

You're calling Jiggyfly out for the exact same thing you and HawksFan are doing with the character of Michonne.

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12-06-2012, 06:52 PM
  #677
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Originally Posted by MrWoof View Post
Pot. Kettle. Black.

You're calling Jiggyfly out for the exact same thing you and HawksFan are doing with the character of Michonne.
This thread might make it to Part V on this bickering alone


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12-06-2012, 07:52 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by MrWoof View Post
Pot. Kettle. Black.

You're calling Jiggyfly out for the exact same thing you and HawksFan are doing with the character of Michonne.
Huh, we are not making any insane leaps of judgement. We are hoping the writers will eventually fill us in on her motivations. Until then, we will accept a few less scowls per episode.

Maybe add some layers to her character even if it's a different facial expression.

Stating she brought the baby formula as a peace offering is not a leap. She looked at Rick and held up the crate as almost to say, "help me... I brought this for you...". Doesn't seem like a leap to me. Does it to you?

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12-06-2012, 09:05 PM
  #679
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Nope, characters in TWD are supposed to do things that defy logic to push the story along.
Ya defying logic like bringing "baby formula peace offerings"

"Good day sir, I bring you gold, frankincense, myrrh and baby formula as a symbol of my peace offering to you and your benevolent group"

"I will now hold it high so all may see and understand"

"May I now enter into your humble domain?"

Maybe we can solve the lockout by offering up powdered baby formula to both sides in exchange for their ink.

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12-06-2012, 09:23 PM
  #680
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I saw her bringing the "groceries" as proof that that Maggie and Glenn were indeed captured, rather than having them think it was a trap. Plus she had personal vendetta against Merle/Governor, so she needed allies.

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12-06-2012, 09:27 PM
  #681
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Dude, we are not making this stuff up. TWD needs to work on some things.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/1...Dead-TV-Series

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Michonne, a fan favorite, and a richly developed, full, interesting, and challenging character in the graphic novel, was first introduced as a black caretaker and best friend/magical to Andrea on the TV series.

There, this iconic character is a black pit bull warrior, unfeeling, laconic, and damaged. Michonne, has a few more lines of dialogue than T-Dog; but she is dangerously close to being a two-dimensional figure whose only plot purpose is only to serve as a weapon to be unhinged at the command of Rick, the leader of the intrepid group of zombie apocalypse survivors. In future episodes, I would suggest that it will be even more clear that Michonne is only a slightly more under control version of the X-Men's Wolverine for Rick; Wolverine was Weapon X; Michonne is a Samurai sword wielding loyal .
Below is an excellent point. Leaving out most of the back story and what actually happens to her at Woodburry really hurts her character progression.

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If you remove her personal challenges, tragedies, and triumphs, you remove Michonne's power in The Walking Dead. This is disrespectful to the character. Considering that Michonne is one of the most compelling characters in any recent comic book, and who also happens to be a person of color (a group marginalized in graphic novels), the insult is very much magnified.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv_club/features

Quote:
And Michonne’s stark refusal to say anything, instead engaging Andrea in a glowering contest, again miffed viewers.

“At what point will Michonne learn to use her words?” wrote Slate commenter Formyle. “The standoff with Andrea could have been resolved with a quick ‘He sent Merle to kill me, so I came back to kill him. Your old pals Rick and Daryl are attacking to free Glenn and Maggie, who Merle kidnapped.
Quote:
SCOWL, Michonne. Show Us Your Scowl — It’s a good thing that the most one-dimensional character on television has a really good dimension, as Michonne’s scowl never wavers, even when faced with a dismembered head that chomps. Grrrrr.
\


Last edited by HawksFan74: 12-06-2012 at 09:32 PM.
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12-06-2012, 10:10 PM
  #682
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No, they're all wrong, and only Jiggyfly is right.

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12-06-2012, 10:55 PM
  #683
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No, they're all wrong, and only Jiggyfly is right.
It's sad when people can't figure stuff out on their own and need their hands held. It doesn't take much to understand how her character is developing, except to once again, pay attention.

After half a season we can see that Michonne is very guarded, untrusting and jaded. She is also very instinctual. She is a survivor and is constantly surveying her surroundings, never at ease or feeling truly safe, and she can quickly size people up.

This is the very reason why she is still alive and she isn't going to show a range of emotions, because she knows your emotions can betray you and that is when you can let your guard down (Andrea being prime example A).

That's exactly how someone like her would be in real life. People want her to show emotions and smile, be friendly with people, talk, etc.

Get ****ing real. The woman has been traumatized and she isn't going become little miss sunshine to put others at ease. She is trying to survive. Period.

She was already jaded, then finally found someone she thought she shared a bond with, and Andrea turns her back on her. She was probably starting to feel something again... More human... Because of her relationship with Andrea, then suddenly she feels monumentally betrayed.

People then wonder why she doesn't mention Andrea or even want to speak to her when she sees her again.

She's a pissed off character who has zero trust left in humanity, but she still has good left in her that she wants to let out, but seems afraid to. Just like Daryl, it's going to take time for her to work through **** and open up to people again and put her trust in them once more.

If you think all this can be worked out in half a season while other numerous, pivotal characters are also being developed, I suggest you put in an application to write for the show.


Last edited by Mr Jiggyfly: 12-06-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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12-06-2012, 11:46 PM
  #684
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No point in debating the Michonne thing anymore. Everyone can have an opinion.

The show has had some really bright spots. The episode at the CDC was fantastic as it was a stark contrast to everything else in the series. We were able to get so much from Jenner in just one episode. Probably because a good chunk of the episode was not dedicated to slaying zombies.

A flash back with Daryl and Merle joining the group would be good as well. They seem like they would prefer to go at it on their own, I'm a bit surprised they ended up there. Merle, the ex-con junkie with Shane? Could also get Shane another appearance.

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12-07-2012, 04:17 AM
  #685
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I haven't seen you refer to Andrea, Maggie, Beth, etc as "white chics". You brought race into it not me, so trying to dance around it and redirect back at me won't change the facts.

And when did I say Rick's group dropped their guard? I didn't.

There is no way Michonne thinks having the baby formula will get her "in". You can say whatever about her, but stupid is the last word anyone would use.

You and a few others are trying to over complicate what the writers are showing us about Michonne's personality. They are making it pretty obvious that despite how pissed off she is, she still cares about helping others. Keep ignoring the obvious...
I didnt refer to Andrea, Maggie or Beth at all. You are the one who brought up race. Notice how you didnt bring up the fact that I mentioned she was female, only her race

You said that I think that Rick would drop his guard because she brought baby formula, I have no idea why as he obviously didnt but you said it

She turned her back on Andrea just as much as Andrea "turned her back" on Michonne. Andrea just asked for a reason to leave Woodbury and Michonne couldnt give one so she just insulted her, left and wouldnt talk to Andrea again. I dont care if she smiles it would just be nice if she didnt scowl the whole damn time

She sure trusted Ricks group when the went into Woodbury, leading them, surrendering when they questioned her. She was much better then, but she couldnt be like that with Andrea (on screen) for some reason

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12-07-2012, 07:34 AM
  #686
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
She was already jaded, then finally found someone she thought she shared a bond with, and Andrea turns her back on her. She was probably starting to feel something again... More human... Because of her relationship with Andrea, then suddenly she feels monumentally betrayed.

People then wonder why she doesn't mention Andrea or even want to speak to her when she sees her again.

She's a pissed off character who has zero trust left in humanity, but she still has good left in her that she wants to let out, but seems afraid to. Just like Daryl, it's going to take time for her to work through **** and open up to people again and put her trust in them once more.

.

Why does Michonne have any less trust in humanity than any of the other survivors would? What has she been through to make her so much more pissed off than anyone else?

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12-07-2012, 09:04 AM
  #687
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I didnt refer to Andrea, Maggie or Beth at all. You are the one who brought up race. Notice how you didnt bring up the fact that I mentioned she was female, only her race
Again, try to dance around it and deflect if you want. You are the one who was talking about her looking shady to Rick because she was a bloodied, sword wielding "black chick". I think the bloodied, sword wielding description was enough to make Rick worry.

You brought up the color of her skin, not me and I'm pretty sure Rick is color blind by now. Anyway whatever, I'm not going to make a federal case out of it.

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You said that I think that Rick would drop his guard because she brought baby formula, I have no idea why as he obviously didnt but you said it
It was obvious sarcasm.

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She turned her back on Andrea just as much as Andrea "turned her back" on Michonne. Andrea just asked for a reason to leave Woodbury and Michonne couldnt give one so she just insulted her, left and wouldnt talk to Andrea again. I dont care if she smiles it would just be nice if she didnt scowl the whole damn time
She told her things weren't right there. Andrea didn't trust Michonne's instincts and let her leave. Telling her what she saw wouldn't of mattered, because Andrea saw the zombie fights and the Gov with his zombie head collection and still didn't leave.

I like that Michonne scowls and is pissed off, doesn't trust easily, etc. Because that is exactly how a true survivor in a zombie apocalypse would act. Seriously, what does she have to smile about? She isn't going to let her guard down, especially when she senses the Gov isn't what he seems to be.

Honest question: What makes Daryl any different? Dude I think gave us two slight smiles in 2.5 seasons. He walks around pissed off all of the time... accuses the group of not liking him, goes off on his own and PMSes on Carol and others, makes zombie ear necklaces when he goes full fruitloop and disassociates from people.

We only found out recently his life was pretty messed up with what happened to his mom, etc.

I like that he is pissed off to, but he isn't much different than Michonne, except they had 2 more seasons to develop him a little more.

Quote:
She sure trusted Ricks group when the went into Woodbury, leading them, surrendering when they questioned her. She was much better then, but she couldnt be like that with Andrea (on screen) for some reason
She didn't surrender, she passed out and woke up in handcuffs.

She is starting to trust Rick's group a little, because she saw how emotional they got when Carol was found alive, sees that they are putting their lives on the line to save their friends, etc.

She tried to talk to Andrea. Andrea didn't listen and continues to ignore massive red flags.

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12-07-2012, 09:08 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Megahab View Post
Why does Michonne have any less trust in humanity than any of the other survivors would? What has she been through to make her so much more pissed off than anyone else?
What makes Daryl so pissed off and angry?

It took us 2.5 seasons to find out what happened to his mom.

He has been in a group setting almost the entire show and it took him time to work things out. He has had a lot of backlash towards the group and wanted to live away from them for a time, felt they were using him, etc.

Michonne hasn't been with a group for a long time. Just like Daryl, she isn't going to conform and trust right away. It takes time.

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12-07-2012, 09:54 AM
  #689
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That's what I've been saying, she has time to improve, I'm not writing her off completely, but so far, she's been one note. The writers had time to improve TDawg in 2.5 seasons but they decided not to, you think they did it on purpose so their audience could fill in the gaps, or they were just lazy?

She's angry, and doesn't trust easily. I don't need to see her smiling and laughing all the time, but I want to know why she's like that, and I'm not sure if the writers get it. So far it seems like they just thought everyone would love her because she wields a sword and jumps out of trees.

That's where you and I differ. I don't have so much trust in them to deliver, and I'm certainly not willing to accept that they're dropping all these subtle hints to purposefully build her character like that.

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12-07-2012, 10:26 AM
  #690
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I assume we'll find out more about Michonne and the Governor in the 2nd half of the season.

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12-07-2012, 01:05 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
She told her things weren't right there. Andrea didn't trust Michonne's instincts and let her leave. Telling her what she saw wouldn't of mattered, because Andrea saw the zombie fights and the Gov with his zombie head collection and still didn't leave.

I like that Michonne scowls and is pissed off, doesn't trust easily, etc. Because that is exactly how a true survivor in a zombie apocalypse would act. Seriously, what does she have to smile about? She isn't going to let her guard down, especially when she senses the Gov isn't what he seems to be.

Honest question: What makes Daryl any different? Dude I think gave us two slight smiles in 2.5 seasons. He walks around pissed off all of the time... accuses the group of not liking him, goes off on his own and PMSes on Carol and others, makes zombie ear necklaces when he goes full fruitloop and disassociates from people.

We only found out recently his life was pretty messed up with what happened to his mom, etc.

I like that he is pissed off to, but he isn't much different than Michonne, except they had 2 more seasons to develop him a little more.



She didn't surrender, she passed out and woke up in handcuffs.

She is starting to trust Rick's group a little, because she saw how emotional they got when Carol was found alive, sees that they are putting their lives on the line to save their friends, etc.

She tried to talk to Andrea. Andrea didn't listen and continues to ignore massive red flags.
Saying this place isnt right wouldnt be enough to leave a place like Woodbury, Andrea asked for proof and Michonne just walked off. I guess you didnt read my post but I said I dont care if shes not smiling, could of saved you some time not having to write an extra paragraph

Im not talking about when she passed out...Im talking about when they were in front of Woodbury. She did not see them reacting to Carol and you cant bring up about Andrea not caring about what she saw because thats ex post facto. Point is Andrea asks for one thing to go on and Michonne just says "are you coming or not" then storms off instead of actually fighting to get your best friend to stay with you

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12-07-2012, 01:35 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by Protest the Hero View Post
That's what I've been saying, she has time to improve, I'm not writing her off completely, but so far, she's been one note. The writers had time to improve TDawg in 2.5 seasons but they decided not to, you think they did it on purpose so their audience could fill in the gaps, or they were just lazy?

She's angry, and doesn't trust easily. I don't need to see her smiling and laughing all the time, but I want to know why she's like that, and I'm not sure if the writers get it. So far it seems like they just thought everyone would love her because she wields a sword and jumps out of trees.

That's where you and I differ. I don't have so much trust in them to deliver, and I'm certainly not willing to accept that they're dropping all these subtle hints to purposefully build her character like that.
I think T-dog was zombie fodder from the beggining and they knew he was going to be offed at some point.

I keep asking people what the difference is between Michonne and Daryl, but am not getting a real answer. Until he told Carl what happened with his mom, we had no idea why he was so pissed off all of the time, we just knew he was and that he had issues.

But all I see is "Daryl is so bad ass!" "If they kill Daryl ill be like so pissed man! He's the best character on the show!"

And obviously I differ about the subtle hints growing Michonne's character.

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12-07-2012, 01:54 PM
  #693
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Saying this place isnt right wouldnt be enough to leave a place like Woodbury, Andrea asked for proof and Michonne just walked off.
As I keep saying, either she trusts the instincts of the woman who saved her and kept her alive this long, or she doesn't.

I'm 99% sure telling her about what she saw would of done zilch. Andrea would of just questioned everything, since she didn't want to hear Woodbury wasn't the Nirvana she was so desparate for.

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I guess you didnt read my post but I said I dont care if shes not smiling, could of saved you some time not having to write an extra paragraph
I read exactly what you said and told you that she is going to keep showing the same face to people she doesn't trust. It keeps them at bay and they aren't sure what to make of her.

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Im not talking about when she passed out...Im talking about when they were in front of Woodbury.
I have no clue what you are talking about then. Try to be more clear. You said "surrendering when they questioned her".

She gave them info when Rick was in her face and she was handcuffed. In front of Woodbury she had already seen how they reacted to Carol and knew they were risking their lives for two friends, so as I said already, she was starting to trust them a little.

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She did not see them reacting to Carol
Ya, she did. Again, pay attention. They cut to her and showed her watching them from behind the bars.

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and you cant bring up about Andrea not caring about what she saw because thats ex post facto.
Sure I can. It shows where her mindset is. It is going to take something blatantly obvious for Andrea to be convinced Woodbury isn't what she believes it to be. She made it clear she is tired and doesn't want to go back "out there", so she is going to ignore every red flag she can, as long as she can.

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Point is Andrea asks for one thing to go on and Michonne just says "are you coming or not" then storms off instead of actually fighting to get your best friend to stay with you
If I was Michonne and Andrea didn't trust my instincts after all we went through, I would of walked out on her to.


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12-07-2012, 02:29 PM
  #694
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Who do you think dies next?

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12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
  #695
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Let's go back to the fact that Andrea was a lawyer before the zombie outbreak. Lawyers tend to like some sort of evidence before they make a decision. Michonne gives absolutely none other than "I don't trust him".


If we're going to fill in the blanks to come up with reasons why Michonne refuses to give any details (trust issues, feeling insulted that her friend doesn't believe her, etc.), we can at least see the other side of the picture, why Andrea thinks Michonne's instincts are moronic.


Also, regarding Michonne's instincts... If she had the good sense and instincts to not drag around two noisy zombies in chains they probably don't get caught by Merle in the first place. And on top of that, her instincts tell her that their best bet is to go out as a two-woman group, armed with one pistol and one sword, make for the coast, hope it's clear (why would it be?), find a boat, and go out to an island. That's her best case scenario, FAR better than staying in a secured town in which people live as normally as anyone we've seen in the entire show. Her instincts also led her to stand against a prison fence in the middle of a pack of zombies looking at Rick like a puppy who wants to come inside during a storm. Her instincts also told her it was a good idea to, while completely hidden in a tree, jump down to attack four people who had guns. Her instincts also led her to see a grunting, growling girl chained and caged, and not realize that it's a zombie until she pulls the bag off from over her head, about a foot from her own face. I don't think her instincts are that good.

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12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
  #696
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Who do you think dies next?
Bet Axel tries to **** beth and Carl puts a bullet between his eyes.

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12-07-2012, 02:43 PM
  #697
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Also, regarding Michonne's instincts... If she had the good sense and instincts to not drag around two noisy zombies in chains they probably don't get caught by Merle in the first place. And on top of that, her instincts tell her that their best bet is to go out as a two-woman group, armed with one pistol and one sword, make for the coast, hope it's clear (why would it be?), find a boat, and go out to an island. That's her best case scenario, FAR better than staying in a secured town in which people live as normally as anyone we've seen in the entire show. Her instincts also led her to stand against a prison fence in the middle of a pack of zombies looking at Rick like a puppy who wants to come inside during a storm. Her instincts also told her it was a good idea to, while completely hidden in a tree, jump down to attack four people who had guns. Her instincts also led her to see a grunting girl chained and caged, and not realize that it's a zombie until she pulls the bag off from over her head, about a foot from her own face. I don't think her instincts are that good.
The chained zombies acted as a shield for several months before they were captured.

If anything, you should address why she went to the site of the copter crash, which was sure to pull in humans and zombies from the area.


But once again, all that same criticism can be said about Darryl. Hunting alone, looking for Sophia alone, store Herschels horse without asking, fell down and put his own arrow through himself, going into town with Maggie on a mission, etc.

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12-07-2012, 03:09 PM
  #698
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I think T-dog was zombie fodder from the beggining and they knew he was going to be offed at some point.

I keep asking people what the difference is between Michonne and Daryl, but am not getting a real answer. Until he told Carl what happened with his mom, we had no idea why he was so pissed off all of the time, we just knew he was and that he had issues.

But all I see is "Daryl is so bad ass!" "If they kill Daryl ill be like so pissed man! He's the best character on the show!"

And obviously I differ about the subtle hints growing Michonne's character.
I can't really remember much from season 1, but I don't think Daryl ever left on his own without telling anyone, putting them at risk. Even though Rick chained up his brother, he still worked with him to find him. He risked his life in Season 2 to find Sophia. Not to mention he doesn't walk around with a scowl on his face every moment.

It's kind of bizarre Daryl was a character made up by the writers of the show, probably meant to be zombie fodder before his popularity rose, the writers gave him his own backstory and created a great character. Yet Michonne, a fan favourite character with a great backstory(apparently anyway) has really failed make people care for her. Even her moments with Andrea haven't been light hearted, and we just see her talking about the Governor some more.

We've seen Tyreese show more emotional range in his 10 minutes. This season has been much improved though.

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12-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #699
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I can't really remember much from season 1, but I don't think Daryl ever left on his own without telling anyone, putting them at risk. Even though Rick chained up his brother, he still worked with him to find him. He risked his life in Season 2 to find Sophia. Not to mention he doesn't walk around with a scowl on his face every moment.

It's kind of bizarre Daryl was a character made up by the writers of the show, probably meant to be zombie fodder before his popularity rose, the writers gave him his own backstory and created a great character. Yet Michonne, a fan favourite character with a great backstory(apparently anyway) has really failed make people care for her. Even her moments with Andrea haven't been light hearted, and we just see her talking about the Governor some more.

We've seen Tyreese show more emotional range in his 10 minutes. This season has been much improved though.
Daryl went off on his own and stole a horse to find Sophie. It pissed off Herschel and Rick had to convince him to let them stay on the farm still. Not only did he put the group's safe haven at risk, but what if he hurt his leg so badly from the fall, that he couldn't walk? He would of been ****ed and the group would of had to use their resources to look for him (and not Sophie).

Daryl walks around with a scowl almost every episode, it just isn't as mean looking as when Michonne does it. The dude has literally smiled twice in 2.5 seasons. He went off on Carol for no reason when she was just trying to be nice to him. He accused the group of just wanting him around to do "their dirty work", etc.

He is a bad ass character, but he has done some dumb **** himself that makes you question wtf he is thinking.

We have seen enough evidence to see Michonne still cares. Now that she will be with a group she trusts (I presume) I'm sure more of her character will be fleshed out.

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12-07-2012, 03:28 PM
  #700
Richie10
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Just want to say...after watching Battlestar Galactica for the first time and going back to TWD, TWD has some major plot and character issues this season.

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